McDonald: Popovich says Bowen not answer for Spurs

Popovich says Bowen not answer for Spurs
Jeff McDonald

LOS ANGELES — In Spurs coach Gregg Popovich's estimation, the biggest problem facing his team going forward is on defense.

Heading into Saturday's game against the Los Angeles Clippers, the Spurs were giving up 96.5 points per game, a Popovich-era record, and were tied for 13th in the NBA in field-goal defense (45.7 percent).

For a team that is typically one of the best defensive teams in the league, and began the season vowing to return to those heights, this season's futility has been a bitter pill to swallow.

“It's been a big disappointment this season that we have not jelled as a group, defensively,” Popovich said. “And it shows in our record.”

Popovich has only scant clues as to why the defensive slide that began two years ago has continued into this season. One explanation he does not buy — a lack of Bruce Bowen.

Bowen, an eight-time member of the NBA's All-Defensive team, retired last summer at age 38 after being dealt to Milwaukee.

“If Bruce was able to continue to do what he does, he'd be doing it for us or someone else right now,” Popovich said.

Even if the Spurs were able to somehow re-acquire a 2005 version of Bowen, Popovich said, it would make only a small dent in this team's defensive woes.

“Bruce was a great defender, but it's not just one guy that makes it,” Popovich said. “There's something called team defense, where five guys have to react appropriately. We just haven't reacted well.”

The Spurs turned in one of their best defensive efforts of the season against the Clippers.

A vote of confidence: Spurs center/forward Antonio McDyess was pleased to hear the news that Kim Hughes got the nod as Clippers interim coach after Mike Dunleavy stepped away from the bench.

Hughes, who was coaching his first game in that capacity Saturday, was an assistant in Denver during McDyess' second tour of duty there from 1998-2002.

“He's a good guy and a great big-man coach,” McDyess said.

Rookie advice: If there's one Spurs player who sympathizes with the plight of Clippers rookie Blake Griffin, it's McDyess.

McDyess suffered a debilitating fractured left patella during a preseason game in 2002, which caused him to miss that entire season. Griffin, the No. 1 pick in the draft, suffered the same injury in the same manner — attempting a preseason dunk — and will not play this season.

“It was frustrating,” McDyess said. “I think a lot of people would have given up. It takes a while to regain confidence in your knee and your playing ability.”

I saw this article recently where some writer had a statistic that said Bowen was one of the best perimeter defenders in the league in 2008-09 (http://www.48minutesofhell.com/2009/...r-bruce-bowen/). Don't know if that's true but I really don't see how he could be worse than Keith Bogans.

Somebody tell Pop that fielding shit lineups encourages shit defense...

Pop with some lame quotes about Bowen :td

I think we've now figured out who the butthurt person in the Spurs organization is who is against retiring Bowen's jersey.

Shocking. I always thought pop was a HUGE Bowen fan... Whoulda thunk it.

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Originally Posted by timvp

Pop with some lame quotes about Bowen :td

I think we've now figured out who the butthurt person in the Spurs organization is who is against retiring Bowen's jersey.

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I don't think that's the case. I think it will be retired next year and with Pop's blessing.

I just think that Pop wants people (fans/Spurs players) to realize that the Spurs' D isn't going to improve with one acquisition -- whether that would be prime Bowen, Camby, or whoever. The team D works like a machine. Even if one part was outstanding, the rest of the parts have to fall in line.

Is that why Pop didnt answer my should Bruce get his jersey retired question?

Why is he so harsh with Bruce?

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Originally Posted by Kori Ellis

I don't think that's the case. I think it will be retired next year and with Pop's blessing.

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I think it was Buck Harvey who said there were those within the Spurs who are against Bowen's jersey being retired. And considering that those type of decisions are about 99.9% Pop, I think Pop is against it. I think that there was some major blowup between the two last season and that's why Bowen never played even though he obviously had some gas left in the tank ... and it's also why Pop has scoffed Bowen in the press a couple times this year.

I could be wrong. Guess we'll find out. But if Bowen's #12 isn't in the rafters in a few years, that'd be disgusting.

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Originally Posted by timvp

I could be wrong. Guess we'll find out. But if Bowen's #12 isn't in the rafters in a few years, that'd be disgusting.

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exactly. especially if we see Finley's #4 retired here.

Pop knows he was wrong.

Pop knows we know he was wrong.

Pop knows that we know he knows he's wrong.

Pop will never let us know that he knows that we know that he knows he was wrong.

It's just wrong...

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Originally Posted by Kori Ellis

I don't think that's the case. I think it will be retired next year and with Pop's blessing.

I just think that Pop wants people (fans/Spurs players) to realize that the Spurs' D isn't going to improve with one acquisition -- whether that would be prime Bowen, Camby, or whoever. The team D works like a machine. Even if one part was outstanding, the rest of the parts have to fall in line.

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The D is able to fall in line a lot easier when you have someone of the caliber of Bruce Bowen starting and defending the other teams best perimeter scorer.

Anyway, I thought Bruce is back for sure after that trade to Milwaukee and am still surprised that he was never resigned.

if Avery Jonson's jersey is hanging in the rafters, and Bruce's doesnt im gonna be pissed. and you dont want to make Poop pissed.

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Originally Posted by duncan228

One explanation he does not buy — a lack of Bruce Bowen.

“If Bruce was able to continue to do what he does, he'd be doing it for us or someone else right now,” Popovich said.

Even if the Spurs were able to somehow re-acquire a 2005 version of Bowen, Popovich said, it would make only a small dent in this team's defensive woes.

“Bruce was a great defender, but it's not just one guy that makes it,” Popovich said. “There's something called team defense, where five guys have to react appropriately. We just haven't reacted well.”

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Ok, the bold is completely irrelevant. No one is saying we need 38-year-old Bowen, Pop is just being cute. I think Bowen was one of the driving forces behind the team defense; it wasn't just his skill, he was keeping the other guys amped up and in line on that end.

Put Bowen's jersey in the rafters. If Pop resists too much, remind him of his quote from earlier this year. Then fire him and hire Bowen. :lol

He didn't say anything that bad. I think Pop still loves Bruce, he just knows that a past his prime, older, slower vet is not going to help this team. However, I don't think he could be much worse than Bogans, Jefferson or Mason on any given night. #12 will definitely hang in the rafters. Finley? No fucking way.

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Originally Posted by timvp

I think it was Buck Harvey who said there were those within the Spurs who are against Bowen's jersey being retired. And considering that those type of decisions are about 99.9% Pop, I think Pop is against it. I think that there was some major blowup between the two last season and that's why Bowen never played even though he obviously had some gas left in the tank ... and it's also why Pop has scoffed Bowen in the press a couple times this year.

I could be wrong. Guess we'll find out. But if Bowen's #12 isn't in the rafters in a few years, that'd be disgusting.

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wow

As someone who's had the higher-ups in the Spurs FO including Pop pegged as spiteful . . . not wanting Bowen's # retired is shocking even to me.

pop cant sit there and say bowen would be better than what we have... what kind of message does that send to your players... i have no problem with those quotes about bowen....

better than him sitting there acting like bowen would be the savior...... and the quotes are true... bowen would not be some answer here to put us over the top.

I made a thread about Bowen's performance last year..he was actually still really effective..the stats show it, and so does the list of numbers from opposing perimeter players..

I think it came down to Pop wanting to go to more of an offensive lineup, believing the system would be enough to keep the Spurs as a top defensive team and mask certain players..it turned out that Bowen was still a good option, and it showed especially during the playoffs where Bowen was one of only 4 players that consistently showed up..

There definitely has to be some bad blood between Bowen and Pop..I would guess that Bruce had some complaints about his PT..it must have been difficult for him to watch a clearly inferior Michael Finley getting much, much more playing time than him..I would have been upset too(if Bruce was even upset, I'm just speculating)..

I also think retirement came down to Bowen IMO..there's absolutely no way that another team didn't want him, he was clearly still effective enough to be a bench player for a lot of teams..

Bruce is one of my favorite players of all-time, but I didn't really care that we didn't have him for this year, since I assumed we would be going with a young approach..if you're using that as an excuse for Pop, then you're clearly mistaken though..this team has signed Keith Bogans and Theo Ratliff instead of playing Malik Hairston and Ian Mahinmi..they still have an "old" mentality, so that has very little to do with Bowen's departure..

Pop's main problem with bringing Bowen back is that he's too tall to play center on our team.

What I've always assumed and what MaNu4Tres confirmed, was that Bowen's pride couldn't take a bench role playing spot-minutes. He's one of the greatest and fiercest competitors the Spurs have ever employed and there was just no way he was going to go out on such terms.

He wanted to play, he knew he was still capable of playing but if he wasn't going to get the opportunity to play, specifically the minutes he needed to do his job, he was going to go out on his terms; I'd expect nothing less of Bruce.

I don't have a huge problem with him not being here in the capacity he would have preferred, but I'd be lying if I didn't think he could help the team as a bench player, mentor and leader in the lockerroom.

In honor of Bruce, it is what it is...

It's not just the fact that he wasn't starting or getting big minutes..it's also the fact that Finley was ahead of him, playing significantly more, which is ridiculous..a guy with the same age concerns and was a much inferior player..

Nobody that loves to play the game and compete at the highest level would accept an inferior player playing more minutes than them on a consistent basis..

I'm sure that played it's part (I'm not sure Bruce and Fin ever truly embraced each other given their past) but even if it were a better, younger player in front of him, I feel the result would have been the same.

He just wasn't going to accept fading into the background and being the proverbial victory cigar. And, even if he were to get 10-15 min. a game, it wouldn't have changed a thing. It's almost impossible to play the role of a stopper by coming off the bench cold or playing sporadic minutes.

Defensive stoppers, one-dimensional defensive stoppers, need a good chunk of minutes to give a team the net gain needed.

I'm of the opinion that what Pop's saying is a message. It's kind of like when Pitino told the Boston Media that Bird, McHale, & Parrish ain't walking through that door and if they do...they'll be old."

To me...it's more of a Circle The Wagon kind of statement. Like he's trying to tell his guys, that it's all on you now. What Bruce did for us was amazing, but he's no longer here, so..it's all on you!

Then again, I could be wrong and Pop hates the guy. :depressed

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Originally Posted by Man In Black

I'm of the opinion that what Pop's saying is a message. It's kind of like when Pitino told the Boston Media that Bird, McHale, & Parrish ain't walking through that door and if they do...they'll be old."

To me...it's more of a Circle The Wagon kind of statement. Like he's trying to tell his guys, that it's all on you now. What Bruce did for us was amazing, but he's no longer here, so..it's all on you!

Then again, I could be wrong and Pop hates the guy. :depressed

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I think this is a legit possibility as well..I guess we won't know what really happened for a long time, if ever..

Like Harlem Heat said, Pop sat Bowen way too abruptly last year. Bowen had plenty in the tank. PLENTY. There was no excuse for it, but to make matters worse, he played Finley huge minutes.

There's no way possible that Bruce Bowen - even today - could possibly be as ineffective as Finley was last year, or even the year before. Finley has been stealing money from the Spurs for three years.

Last year Bowen was still hitting threes at a good percentage, and was still defending very well. He had lost only a tad, not a full step. And he's aways been a great team defender.

That was the beggining of the end for our defense and Pop knows it. But of course Pop will never, ever admit to being anything other than a genius.

To me, the guy is the most overrated coach in the history of the league. Without Tim Duncan, Gregg Popovich is Bob Weiss. There are certain guys he just chooses to mishandle hideously...Beno, Ian, etc. And then there's Finley, who he signed to a 2-year deal after the guy was completely washed up.

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Originally Posted by Man In Black

I'm of the opinion that what Pop's saying is a message. It's kind of like when Pitino told the Boston Media that Bird, McHale, & Parrish ain't walking through that door and if they do...they'll be old."

To me...it's more of a Circle The Wagon kind of statement. Like he's trying to tell his guys, that it's all on you now. What Bruce did for us was amazing, but he's no longer here, so..it's all on you!

Then again, I could be wrong and Pop hates the guy. :depressed

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Making speeches about how "Larry Bird isn't walking through that door" worked out awesome for Pitino and the Celtics.

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Originally Posted by objective

Making speeches about how "Larry Bird isn't walking through that door" worked out awesome for Pitino and the Celtics.

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I agree but unlike Pitino's Celtics, Pop is still blessed to have Duncan, Parker, & Ginobili. Bowen isn't the missing keystone. I agree with Pop, if I'm decoding him right, this is a line in the sand thing.

Bruce Bowen is one of my favorite Spurs players ever.


Now, there were times where I got mad at Bruce for not producing enough offense, but still, last season I did not understand why Bruce's court time was almost halved. To me he still looked pretty good, and then when he got more court time later on in the season and playoffs he showed he is still a tough, hard nosed player that will leave it all on the court. There is not many players that I was happy with after the Dallas series only TP, Bruce and Hill are the ones that really busted their asses. I won't include Tim because he was not able to perform due to injury.

I am getting madder by the minute reading this crap. Why Bruce is not on the team right now is a mystery to me.

He got benched last year in an effort to manufacture offense.

The Spurs losing to the Lakers in the fashion they did, playing well enough offensively and just lacking the firepower, really jarred Pop and his thinking. He approached the season with the Lakers in mind and decided to commit to a more concerted effort to manufacture offense; this lead to spacing the floor with shooters like Bonner and Finley and trusting that the system would allow them to stay relatively close to where they'd been defensively.

It was a premise full of fail, in the long run, but it was fine for the regular season. The fact of the matter was, they just didn't have the firepower needed to dethrone the Lakers and playing the likes of Bonner and Finley, even if they were some of your better offensive options, was never going to be enough to get them over the top.

I've got to believe it wasn't news to Pop, but he tried to make due with what they had.

As for Bruce, he's gone on his own accord. I'm almost certain he would have been welcomed back as a bench player playing a much, much lesser role, but he decided against it. He would rather go out on his own terms feeling he still had something left in the tank before being relegated to a bit player and eventually fading to obscurity. (this is basically what was told to MaNu4Tres, IIRC, from a person with knowledge of the situation)

There definitely seems to be something below the surface between Pop and Bruce and-or some kind of falling out, but word says that if Bruce would've been willing to accept a diminished, lesser role... he'd be here.

I'm one of the biggest Sean Elliott guy's out there. And there was a time when the Spurs thought about bringing him back out of the announcer's booth and onto the court to give them depth and experience they were lacking.
Sean started working out and even practicing a little when he realized that the game had become too difficult for him, even this close to just being retired.
None of us know if Bruce is in any type of game shape. He's talking it up very well on ESPN and that doesn't lead to a lifestyle of suicide runs, practicing corner 3's, and shutdown defensive tactics.

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Popovich has only scant clues as to why the defensive slide that began two years ago has continued into this season. One explanation he does not buy — a lack of Bruce Bowen.

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NO. It's not a lack of Bruce. It's a lack of height.

We have needed a center and a power forward to defend other teams' big men.

Weak Pop...

The whole Bruce situation is such a shame.

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Originally Posted by init2winit

Elie it can still play ball. Trust me, if Elie it worked hard to get in game shape, got some actual playing time... it will all come back to him. Too tough? That's a cop out.

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Wait, wut? 46-year-old Mario Elie?

Bruce Bowen is also one of my favorite Spurs players ever. Bowen was THE unheradled and yet vital cog in the defensive mentality that helped earn the Spurs 3 championships during his tenure.

Having said that, it was clear that Bowen had lost a step or two last year. However he was STILL the best perimeter defender on the team. He was also clearly the best swingman the Spurs had in the ill-fated Dallas playoff series - on both ends. Those results did nothing but confirm that Pop made a stupid decision to allow Finley to gain court time, at Bowen's expense.

As someone stated the obvious earlier in this thread, shitty defenders = shitty defense. The erosion of team defense has as much to do with crappy defensive players, as it does the absence of Bowen. The failed results should not come as a surprise to anyone - especially the coach.

I have to admit that I'm shocked that Pop would take such a backhanded shot at one of the great perimeter defenders the NBA has ever seen. A player that I thought Pop had the ultimate respect for. It's uncalled for and shows just how much of a dick Pop can be. I don't know what happened between those two, but it's clear to me that something took place. Still, I do know this much: Pop would NEVER, EVER utter such a public slight against his boy Avery Johnson.

Retiring Bowen's number should be a no-brainer. If it doesn't happen, it will be an indictment on the franchise and a man, who seemingly has way too much organizational control. Despite whatever personal feelings he may have, Bowen's number deserves to hang from the rafters - even more than AJ.

i always found that the Spurs main "voices" (Pop, tim, TP and manu, even DRob) weren't really praising Bruce on a regular basis like they did with each others.

i mean most of us (including me) thought Bruce was part of the true big 4, rather than the big 3.

Whereas Bruce was clearly appreciated, without a doubt, it could be indeed that his role wasn't considered by those guys as important as us, the fans, consider it.

No need to bring me articles quoting tp or tim praising bruce, i know there are some ones. but whereas i've heard/read the big3, DRob and Pop praising each others several times, that wasn't the case for bruce.

i was even surprised by the little reactions his retirement provoked.

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Originally Posted by duncan228

A vote of confidence: Spurs center/forward Antonio McDyess was pleased to hear the news that Kim Hughes got the nod as Clippers interim coach after Mike Dunleavy stepped away from the bench.

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Hehe, at first I was wondering if this is the first woman coach in the NBA. :D

I really think he's saying this for the current team he has. He doesn't want them to believe there's no chance at improving on the defensive end and he doesn't want his current roster to believe that he doesn't believe in them by saying Bowen is the answer.

Anyone with common sense knows Bowen was a huge piece in the Spurs championships in 2003, 2005 and 2007. And Spurs couldn't have just plugged in another player for Bowen and had the same success. There's no way.

If anyone remembers the Lakers series in 2008, Spurs had two 20 point leads in that series in two games they lost. A fact is Lakers made their huge runs in those two games when Bowen was on the bench. Bruce Bowen hits this subject briefly on the podcast on 12/17/09. http://www.ticket760.com/cc-common/p...rningDrive.xml... My point is Bowen was an integral piece of the Spurs' success in 2008. The Lakers series is part of the proof in the pudding as well as the series against the Hornets, where Peja went Kobe on the Spurs in games 1 and games 2 because Bowen was hounding Paul the first two games. After the first 2 games, Pop made the switch to put Bowen on Peja and Spurs went 4-1 the remaining 5 games in the series. Bowen may not be the answer right now, due to his age and how comfortable his chair has been feeling in Bristol and in the booth on the Ticket, but the man made a huge difference every year he was a Spur. Spurs couldn't have just plugged in anybody and had the same success. Anyone who believes that is just a moron.

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Originally Posted by MaNu4Tres

I really think he's saying this for the current team he has. He doesn't want them to believe there's no chance at improving on the defensive end and he doesn't want his current roster to believe that he doesn't believe in them by saying Bowen is the answer.

Anyone with common sense knows Bowen was a huge piece in the Spurs championships in 2003, 2005 and 2007. And Spurs couldn't have just plugged in another player for Bowen and had the same success. There's no way.

If anyone remembers the Lakers series in 2008, Spurs had two 20 point leads in that series in two games they lost. A fact is Lakers made their huge runs in those two games when Bowen was on the bench. Bruce Bowen hits this subject briefly on the podcast on 12/17/09. http://www.ticket760.com/cc-common/p...rningDrive.xml... My point is Bowen was an integral piece of the Spurs' success in 2008. The Lakers series is part of the proof in the pudding as well as the series against the Hornets, where Peja went Kobe on the Spurs in games 1 and games 2 because Bowen was hounding Paul the first two games. After the first 2 games, Pop made the switch to put Bowen on Peja and Spurs went 4-1 the remaining 5 games in the series. Bowen may not be the answer right now, due to his age and how comfortable his chair has been feeling in Bristol and in the booth on the Ticket, but the man made a huge difference every year he was a Spur. Spurs couldn't have just plugged in anybody and had the same success. Anyone who believes that is just a moron.

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I think even Scottie Pippen has disrespected Bruce at one time by saying that a lot of people would look like great defenders if they had Tim Duncan behind them like Bruce did.

That is kind of a great compliment for Tim and really makes it crazy he never won defensive player of the year, but Bruce is one of the best of all time too.

I'd like to read the actual quote again, but don't recall where I found it.

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Originally Posted by Ice009

I think even Scottie Pippen has disrespected Bruce at one time by saying that a lot of people would look like great defenders if they had Tim Duncan behind them like Bruce did.

That is kind of a great compliment for Tim and really makes it crazy he never won defensive player of the year, but Bruce is one of the best of all time too.

I'd like to read the actual quote again, but don't recall where I found it.

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If that is true, Scottie Pippen's opinion couldn't be more wrong.

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Originally Posted by MaNu4Tres

If that is true, Scottie Pippen's opinion couldn't be more wrong.

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lol I guess Spurs fans are the only ones that realize how good Bruce is.

I was paraphrasing what Pippen said but that is pretty close to his quote. This would have been at least 3, 4 years ago when he said it.

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Originally Posted by Ice009

lol I guess Spurs fans are the only ones that realize how good Bruce is.

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Or the other 29 NBA head coaches who voted for Bruce Bowen to make 8 consecutive All-NBA Defensive teams from 2001 to 2008.

Yeah your right, I guess Spurs fans are the only ones. :rolleyes

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Originally Posted by timvp

Pop with some lame quotes about Bowen :td
I think we've now figured out who the butthurt person in the Spurs organization is who is against retiring Bowen's jersey.

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Didn't they have some serious words last year after some serious issues between them? We all know about that black hole known as Pop's doghouse,but does that still hold for retired players?

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Originally Posted by timvp

I think it was Buck Harvey who said there were those within the Spurs who are against Bowen's jersey being retired. And considering that those type of decisions are about 99.9% Pop, I think Pop is against it. I think that there was some major blowup between the two last season and that's why Bowen never played even though he obviously had some gas left in the tank ... and it's also why Pop has scoffed Bowen in the press a couple times this year.

I could be wrong. Guess we'll find out. But if Bowen's #12 isn't in the rafters in a few years, that'd be disgusting.

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MY God, if the Spurs can retire Avery Johnson's jersey, it would be a travesty not to retire Bruce's. He was tens times the player Avery ever was.

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Originally Posted by ElNono

Somebody tell Pop that fielding shit lineups encourages shit defense...

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+1

Clearly Bruce's skills had deminished. It is a miracle he played so well like he did in his
30's.

If Pop really wanted to amp up the offense, then he shoudl hire an assistant coach with some offensive talent. Hey, didn't we have a guy like that once?

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Originally Posted by MaNu4Tres

Or the other 29 NBA head coaches who voted for Bruce Bowen to make 8 consecutive All-NBA Defensive teams from 2001 to 2008.

Yeah your right, I guess Spurs fans are the only ones. :rolleyes

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It was a joke.

But it's clear some people didn't respect Bruce's defense. Pippen is regarded as one of the best perimeter defenders ever. Why do you think he said that? Was he trying to knock Bruce down to make himself look better or do you think he really believed that. Pat Reilly also bagged Bruce when he left Miami. So there are some people that believe you could plug another defender in to do what Bruce did. I don't, but it seems like some people did.

Lame ? Harsh on bowen? He isnt. He is just saying reality. He's just saying that even if Bowen was with us, it would not be a major difference at all than it is now and that it's not relying on just one guy, but rather the whole team. He's just being realistic and he is true. I dont see any harsh Bowen bashing in this.

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Originally Posted by Baseline

Like Harlem Heat said, Pop sat Bowen way too abruptly last year. Bowen had plenty in the tank. PLENTY. There was no excuse for it, but to make matters worse, he played Finley huge minutes.

There's no way possible that Bruce Bowen - even today - could possibly be as ineffective as Finley was last year, or even the year before. Finley has been stealing money from the Spurs for three years.

Last year Bowen was still hitting threes at a good percentage, and was still defending very well. He had lost only a tad, not a full step. And he's aways been a great team defender.

That was the beggining of the end for our defense and Pop knows it. But of course Pop will never, ever admit to being anything other than a genius.

To me, the guy is the most overrated coach in the history of the league. Without Tim Duncan, Gregg Popovich is Bob Weiss. There are certain guys he just chooses to mishandle hideously...Beno, Ian, etc. And then there's Finley, who he signed to a 2-year deal after the guy was completely washed up.

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So basically we need to fire Pop?

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Originally Posted by Ice009

I think even Scottie Pippen has disrespected Bruce at one time by saying that a lot of people would look like great defenders if they had Tim Duncan behind them like Bruce did.

That is kind of a great compliment for Tim and really makes it crazy he never won defensive player of the year, but Bruce is one of the best of all time too.

I'd like to read the actual quote again, but don't recall where I found it.

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Pippen can start talking when he finally steps out of Michael Jordan's shadow.

Pop needs to acknowledge Bruce as if he would acknowledge Parker or Ginobili. Bruce was an all decade defensive player for sure. A player like that doesnt come around alot. Hes kinda saying that Bruce Bowen is a product of the defensive system. Like MJ said, the players still gotta perform. And I believe that Bruce made Popovich look like a better coach than he really is...

Pop didnt block Billups in game 7
Pop didnt reject Dirk Nowitzki
Pop didnt steal that ball from Steve Nash
Pop didnt make that extra pass

Bowen owes Pop nothing. Pop owes Bruce...

and BTW, im sure Tim,Tony and Manu miss #12 right now...

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“If Bruce was able to continue to do what he does, he'd be doing it for us or someone else right now,” Popovich said.

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I think this quote is out of line. Pop is in effect claiming that no team even wanted Bruce. To justify his decision, he is saying that the whole league agreed. I think Bruce did not want to play elsewhere. It's not like there were no teams interested in him. Why the need for Pop to get so defensive-- pun intended.

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Originally Posted by xtremesteven33

Pop needs to acknowledge Bruce as if he would acknowledge Parker or Ginobili. Bruce was an all decade defensive player for sure. A player like that doesnt come around alot. Hes kinda saying that Bruce Bowen is a product of the defensive system. Like MJ said, the players still gotta perform. And I believe that Bruce made Popovich look like a better coach than he really is...

Pop didnt block Billups in game 7
Pop didnt reject Dirk Nowitzki
Pop didnt steal that ball from Steve Nash
Pop didnt make that extra pass

Bowen owes Pop nothing. Pop owes Bruce...

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Amen. :clap

It's very easy for Bruce's on-court contribution to go virtually unnoticed by the average fan. I don't think people really appreciate just how hard Bruce's job was from game-to-game. And how good he was at it.

Think about it. Having to basically take on the opposition's best perimeter scorer, shadowing them the entire game, running and fighting through screens and picks in an effort to either deny them the ball and/or close out or contest every single shot.

Bruce's responsibilities, along with the skills and abilities that it took to perform that job, were akin to that of a premier NFL "shutdown" cornerback. It's a job no one wanted to do. Yet, he built a career off doing the "dirty work" - every game - all game long.

I will always argue that his contributions to those champioships were just as important and critical to the Spurs success as anybody. All Spurs fans, and coaches for that matter, need to worship at the "Church of Bowen" and be thankful that he was a Spur. Furthermore, Pop needs to "get over himself".

Pop's definitely right. Bruce Bowen of any form would only make this team slightly better defensively - the problems lies with everyone and not just at one position.

Pop is not taking anything away from Bruce and he's not saying he wasn't important to their success - just that he was too old last year and that the current struggles aren't due to a lack of a single player. Pop's mainly using this opportunity to motivate his current squad than to insult Bowen.

The Spurs defensive system has been all about helping eachother and funneling opposing players to Duncan; something that really hasn't happened on a consistent basis.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Blackjack

Pop knows he was wrong.

Pop knows we know he was wrong.

Pop knows that we know he knows he's wrong.

Pop will never let us know that he knows that we know that he knows he was wrong.

It's just wrong...

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Amazing logic, but I agree.:rollin:rollin:rollin

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Originally Posted by Cane

Pop's definitely right. Bruce Bowen of any form would only make this team slightly better defensively

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:lmao

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Originally Posted by benefactor

:lmao

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:toast :hat

Pop is right every once in a while. :king

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Originally Posted by Doctor J

NO. It's not a lack of Bruce. It's a lack of height.

We have needed a center and a power forward to defend other teams' big men.

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There is a lot of truth in this statement. Other than Tim, both McDyess and Blair lack the height to bother guys like Kaman who when Blair was on him began scoring at will, both of the Lakers big men. McDyess has been a good defender against bigger guys in the past but this season he hasn't really shown that, although last night he did a good job on Kamen, and I believe that Blair once he is allowed to use his body without getting called will also be able to counter bigger opponents, but right now he lacks experience. I also don't think that Pop has a negative thing for Bruce, the fallout with Avery was much much bigger and Pop still welcomed him with open arms when his number was retired. I certainly would love to see Bruce's number up there as a symbol for the great defenders for this league that get no due for their valuable play.

Yea it'd be awesome if all this team needed was a great roleplayer like Bowen for the entire team to get to defensive speed.

Unfortunately for us thats just not the case. Duncan's not the force he used to be and doesn't have the bigs to make up for it and just about everyone else has been less intense and energetic defensively than all other squads in the history of the Duncan era.

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Originally Posted by ElNono

Somebody tell Pop that fielding shit lineups encourages shit defense...

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Amen to that. When you run a 6'8'' guy against a 7 footer, you will give up easy shots and thus a higher fg percentage. You cannot train small forwards and guards to defend centers consistently. NBA players are too smart.

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Originally Posted by timvp

I think it was Buck Harvey who said there were those within the Spurs who are against Bowen's jersey being retired. And considering that those type of decisions are about 99.9% Pop, I think Pop is against it. I think that there was some major blowup between the two last season and that's why Bowen never played even though he obviously had some gas left in the tank ... and it's also why Pop has scoffed Bowen in the press a couple times this year.

I could be wrong. Guess we'll find out. But if Bowen's #12 isn't in the rafters in a few years, that'd be disgusting.

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It would be a huge mistake to not retire Bruce in my opinion. That is the kind of thing that the fan base should not tolerate.

This is also Holt's team and Holt should step in and do something about it.

The Spurs hubris and subsequent struggles have come from a belief that you could just plug anybody into the system around Tim, Manu, and Tony and that it would work.

The problem isn't not having Bruce out there. It's that when someone gets around his replacement(s), there's one of Bonner, Finley, or Jefferson down there on the low block playing 'help' defense at the rim.

And that's on you Pop.

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Originally Posted by ploto

The Spurs hubris and subsequent struggles have come from a belief that you could just plug anybody into the system around Tim, Manu, and Tony and that it would work.

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...that along with the outdated belief that "championships are won only with time-tested veterans". How's that working out for Boston? How's that working out for the Mavs? Two of the oldest teams in the NBA.

Fakers won the title last year with one of the younger rosters in the NBA. The Magic reached the NBA Finals with one of the younger rosters in the NBA.

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Originally Posted by timvp

Pop with some lame quotes about Bowen :td

I think we've now figured out who the butthurt person in the Spurs organization is who is against retiring Bowen's jersey.

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Yup. Agreed. Pop with his own foot in his mouth.

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Originally Posted by Aggie Hoopsfan

The problem isn't not having Bruce out there. It's that when someone gets around his replacement(s), there's one of Bonner, Finley, or Jefferson down there on the low block playing 'help' defense at the rim.

And that's on you Pop.

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You bet it is.

It could easily take 2 or 3 adequate defenders to do the job of Bruce. While elite defenders are hard to find, good defenders can be grown.

If Pop truly wished to hedge himself against such a dramatic dropoff in team defense, he should've ensured there were better defenders on this roster. Instead he chose spot-up shooters, who are terrible defenders.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Aggie Hoopsfan

The problem isn't not having Bruce out there. It's that when someone gets around his replacement(s), there's one of Bonner, Finley, or Jefferson down there on the low block playing 'help' defense at the rim.

And that's on you Pop.

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Not necessarily. Bowen was out there and put the locks on the " chosen one" in the 2007 Finals with Oberto defending the paint. That said not having anyone close to the ability of Bowen does hurt this years' team to some extent.

Pop is doing crazy things this year. First with pathetic lineups and then with those lame quotes about Bruce

Put Bruce starting in place of soft Jefferson and we'd have 3-5 more wins.

RETIRE #12 Pop

This team didn't have a Big 3. It had a Big 4.

Tim was the do-it-all superstar big. Tony was the lightning quick, penetrating points-in-the-paint guard. Manu was the energetic, crafty, x-factor with all the intangibles and clutchness. Bruce was the guy who, along with Tim, was indispensable to the defense. He took out the opposing team's best perimeter scorer, while stretching the other team's defense with his outside shooting.

That's all in the past. Tim is still incredible, but he limps more and gets tired on defense. Manu has basically been injured for two years, but he's still crafty and makes big plays. Bruce can still play limited minutes, IMO, but he's not the same guy who gave Kobe and Ray Allen and Dirk and Vince Carter fits every time they saw him. The only one who could be what he used to be---better, in fact---is Tony. His injuries have slowed him a little, but when healthy he's in championship form.

This team is just different, and Pop is trying to put the best product out there. We need help from RJ and McDyess on both ends to cover the deficiencies of Manu and Tim and the lack of Bruce. We need promising youngsters like Blair and Hill to step up to keep Tim and Tony and Manu rested. This isn't a team built on 4 amazing and durable stars who carry the load with an assortment of role players whose role is pretty much the same night in, night out.

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Originally Posted by timvp

I think it was Buck Harvey who said there were those within the Spurs who are against Bowen's jersey being retired. And considering that those type of decisions are about 99.9% Pop, I think Pop is against it.

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I don't believe this.

Pop unexpectedly abandoned Bowen last year from the rotation. It seemed obvious that it was something personal. Bowen showed in the playoffs that he could still play, so the "lost two steps" argument didn't seem valid considering he played better than most of our other players.

Disappointing to see Pop take this approach. At one point he was ready to get rid of David. Then he throws Bowen under the bus. Lame. I wonder how he deals with Manu when the time comes to it.

Yeah, I am sure Pop would take Bogans inferior defense and consistent miscues over a tad bit slower Bowen. Add in the drop in 3pt shooting and it doesn't make sense. Bowen must had spoke some truth that hurt Pop's ego last season.
Bowen could still teach heads a thing or two bout D.

Imagine defense with Ratliff/Dice, Duncan, Bowen, Hill, Gino.

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Originally Posted by cane

pop's definitely right. Bruce bowen of any form would only make this team slightly better defensively - the problems lies with everyone and not just at one position.

Pop is not taking anything away from bruce and he's not saying he wasn't important to their success - just that he was too old last year and that the current struggles aren't due to a lack of a single player. Pop's mainly using this opportunity to motivate his current squad than to insult bowen.

The spurs defensive system has been all about helping eachother and funneling opposing players to duncan; something that really hasn't happened on a consistent basis.

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+1

how does bowen go from defensive team one year to not good enough to play over finley and ime the next year.

Pop is doing the right thing. Motivating our team to play better instead of thinking of what could have happened if Bruce was here. Past is past.

So let's see, Bruce deserves his jersey retired the same season he retires. What are some of you smoking. The only players that deserve that kind of honor from this franchise are Ice, Admiral and Tim.

Our team was mentally retarded last year on offense. That is the main reason finley got "significantly" more pt than bowen. especially with manu being in and out.. our offense consisted of RMJ running the point and pulling up for 3. Bowen sitting in the corner would have been absolutely terrible last year. especially with manu out. only mistake pop made last year wasnt old man bowen but it was his playing time with Hill and pop owned up to that after the season.

As for this year you can say whatever you want, but Bowen didnt deserve 35MPG last year and people here would be starting 10+ threads a night about how we need to get rid of bowen if he was still playing those kind of minutes for us.

Defense is a team game concept. The spurs philosphy started in the perimeter. A Pg would try to run a top of the key pick in roll against the spurs. The old spurs would force him left or right at which time he would be picked up by the next perimeter defender and they would keep forcing the opposing Pg to whichever direction the baseline was. Then he would meet a 7footer at the paint(not at the rim like today) or he would have to drive under the basket (with no shot possiblity) and would end up at the top where he started. Basically the Spurs built a wall around the paint and it was always guarded by one or 2 big men. If there was a big man out on the perimeter then the other big would protect the paint and when he did block or alter a shot the Perimeter players would come in and secure the rebound since both big men were occupied defensively. Now the if you run a simple Pick n roll against the spurs you can pretty much get anything you want. If the spurs did return to defensive eliteness it would require Pop to play 2 big men (Duncan/Mcdyess or Duncan/Ratliff) Blair still needs a little work and and then Bonner........well ya know. Also It would require weakside Rebounding help from the Wing-men. I put that on RJ, especially since he is younger and athletic. Besides theres no need to try and run out for a dunk cause Parker really cant see him in transition.

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Originally Posted by Blackjack

He got benched last year in an effort to manufacture offense.

The Spurs losing to the Lakers in the fashion they did, playing well enough offensively and just lacking the firepower, really jarred Pop and his thinking. He approached the season with the Lakers in mind and decided to commit to a more concerted effort to manufacture offense; this lead to spacing the floor with shooters like Bonner and Finley and trusting that the system would allow them to stay relatively close to where they'd been defensively.

It was a premise full of fail, in the long run, but it was fine for the regular season. The fact of the matter was, they just didn't have the firepower needed to dethrone the Lakers and playing the likes of Bonner and Finley, even if they were some of your better offensive options, was never going to be enough to get them over the top.

I've got to believe it wasn't news to Pop, but he tried to make due with what they had.

As for Bruce, he's gone on his own accord. I'm almost certain he would have been welcomed back as a bench player playing a much, much lesser role, but he decided against it. He would rather go out on his own terms feeling he still had something left in the tank before being relegated to a bit player and eventually fading to obscurity. (this is basically what was told to MaNu4Tres, IIRC, from a person with knowledge of the situation)

There definitely seems to be something below the surface between Pop and Bruce and-or some kind of falling out, but word says that if Bruce would've been willing to accept a diminished, lesser role... he'd be here.

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Good post. This sums up the whole situation. Bowen had a falling out with Pop last year due to Pop wanting to give bowen less minutes.

WTF Pop? Bowen was still the best defensive player on the Spurs last year. This is the kind of bullshit I expect to hear out of Larry Brown or Don Nelson, not fucking Gregg Popovich.

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Originally Posted by DynastyBuilder

So let's see, Bruce deserves his jersey retired the same season he retires. What are some of you smoking. The only players that deserve that kind of honor from this franchise are Ice, Admiral and Tim.

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Agree. I don't even think he should have his jersey retired just like it was a mistake to have Avery Johnson's jersey retired. Bowen was a role player.

He didn't even play on the offensive side of the court and just hit an occasional wide open corner 3. Retired numbers should be for all star franchise type of players and Bowen is not be one of those. Not for players who were role player starters on championship teams.

I think all the theories about offense versus defense assume there was something rational going on last year. The simple answer: Pop loves Finley. Pop plays Finley.

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Originally Posted by MaNu4Tres

Not necessarily. Bowen was out there and put the locks on the " chosen one" in the 2007 Finals with Oberto defending the paint. That said not having anyone close to the ability of Bowen does hurt this years' team to some extent.

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I'm not saying someone like Bowen wouldn't help, or that Bowen didn't.

But elite defenders don't grow on trees.

This is more to me an indictment of small ball. Since Pop has embraced the Don Nelson-esque stupidity of it, Spurs have yet to sniff an NBA Finals.

I would love to see a statistical plot of points allowed in the paint by SA over the last say 6 years. I think you would see a significant uptick in the past 2-3 seasons since he embraced this idealogy.

When you couple it with his Larry Brown-esque fondness for veterans, you end up with old, slow, short people getting smoked on the perimeter with candy ass lane protection like Bonner, Finley, and Jefferson that do little to intimidate opposing perimeter players.

It wouldn't have bothered me to see Bowen back for another season, if not for his defensive expertise alone (aka "corporate knowledge"), but I personally feel like his most impactful days are behind him, and it's not wrong for the Spurs to evolve into a different team (albeit one that should still be defensive-minded). I didn't get anything too negative out of Pop's statement, more that he's saying clinging to the past isn't any kind of remedy for the here and now... It sucks that we couldn't even keep Bowen around as an assistant coach, like when Avery and Mario Elie (players also known for defense) retired and jumped right into coaching. At the very least he'd still be in our gym practicing and preaching Spurs defensive philosophies. I guess the offer or opportunity was never there, so, I can't blame him for getting into broadcasting as he nears his 40's.

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Originally Posted by baseline bum

WTF Pop? Bowen was still the best defensive player on the Spurs last year. This is the kind of bullshit I expect to hear out of Larry Brown or Don Nelson, not fucking Gregg Popovich.

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I agree.

If Pop can be this brutally honest about Bowen (after three titles) please give Pop some truth serum about Matt Bonner.

Bowen would be an immediate upgrade over Bogans. I'm amazed Pop can be straight-faced when he claims that Bruce couldn't defend anymore.



Pride is a killer. I thought Pop is a philosophical guy, he should know the shortcomings of letting himself be ruled by his ego.

Retire jefferson and his jersey.

Bring back Bruce Bowen.

For all this talk about other team's "not wanting Bowen", I was specifically remember the Celtics making a strong push for him, but Bowen not being interested.

Hey Pop, you want to know why your defense sucks Jefferson (d!ck)?

It's stupid shit like RJ and Bonner taking turns guarding Lamar tonight, or going to small ball with 6'7" Blair at center with Jefferson as your "power forward."

Forget pounding the rock, I wish someone would pound some sense into that thick, conceded, belligerent skull of yours.

Maybe if Pop would play 2 bigs most of the time he might see a better defensive result.

I'm so glad Michael Finley is back. I really missed watching him try to front Lamar Odom playing power forward in crunch time. Woot. The only thing better was watching Ginobili, Mason and Hill trying to battle Pau Gasol for a rebound.

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Originally Posted by Obstructed_View

I'm so glad Michael Finley is back. I really missed watching him try to front Lamar Odom playing power forward in crunch time. Woot. The only thing better was watching Ginobili, Mason and Hill trying to battle Pau Gasol for a rebound.

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LOL... Manu actually had a great contest on Gasol late in the game... hit a three at the other end, and obviously was immediately benched. It's been that kind of season...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Blackjack

Pop knows he was wrong.

Pop knows we know he was wrong.

Pop knows that we know he knows he's wrong.

Pop will never let us know that he knows that we know that he knows he was wrong.

It's just wrong...

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:lol

Btw, Pop is an idiot. I said we'd miss Bruce.