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For qualifying forwards (and if anyone can tell us where NBA.com states what is "qualifying" but I'm assuming it's something like 25 min per game)....
Amoung 76 qualifying forwards, Dicks 5.6 boards per 48 is
73rd of 76
Amoung all forwards irregardless of minutes played, Dick is
154th of 169
:wow :wow
http://www.nba.com/statistics/player...ager.offset=50
Wouldn't "irregardless" mean that....ahh, screw it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fabbs
This tends to happen when the guy boxing you out is 7 feet tall and you're 6'7".Quote:
Originally Posted by Fabbs
But it does not happen the 90% of the leagues other small forwards who rank ahead of Dick because?Quote:
Originally Posted by Agloco
Because........they actually play small forward? See my example above.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fabbs
Uh, Blair is 6'7" and aves 17.2 boards per 48.Quote:
Originally Posted by Agloco
Are you whining for Dick and justifying his 73rd of 76th place standing because Poop runs him out in small balls and thus he is essentially playing PF a part of the time?
Blair is 265 lbs, has a 7'2" wingspan, and an ass the size of a small truck. Not the same thing at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fabbs
And I thought your list said qualifying forwards, not small forwards? Whichever it is, he's still a VAST improvement over Bowen in rebounding.
I am not comparing RJ to Bowen, because RJ should be a better rebounder than Bowen. RJ's rebounding has been a disappointment to me, but the Spurs are still a good rebounding team without that.
Everything else has been disappointing though, especially his defense. When he is focused, you can see that he can still bring it, but those moments are too few and far between. His offense is not that bad and he takes mostly good shots. Problem is though that he is terrible at getting into a rhythm and picking his time to attack. Plus, he seemingly misses a lot of good looks. His FT shooting has been atrocious as well.
I am not off the band wagon, but I am very alarmed.
Eh, look at the other players who are rebounding at about the same rate. Pietrus, Battier, Pierce, Diaw, etc. I would take any one of those players on the Spurs. It's not rebounding that's the problem with Jefferson (who has played alot of minutes with those rebounding machines wearing #45 and #21) it's the fact that he doesn't seem to have truly bought in to our defense yet (imo) and just goes through the motions (not rotating enough or at all, giving up on plays that look over and looking to run the break, not thinking 1 or 2 steps ahead, etc). I wouldn't give him an "F" on defense so far, but something like a "C" at best.
The problem with RJ is, the Spurs believed he could come in and be a glue guy and fill the gaps with an all-around game; a young RJ was something they hoped he could revert to.
But that's just not who he is or has been since he started receiving star status. He was never as good a defender as he's been billed, not even when he started with the Nets, and after surgeries and years of picking up bad habits, he's nowhere near the decent defender or all-around player he was in his younger days.
He's not particularly intelligent or savvy as a ball player; his attention to detail is clearly lacking and can be witnessed by his on-court play and newly found goatee; and if he's not getting out in the open court or being catered to offensively, he's basically useless (he looks like a multifaceted player but he's become a one-trick pony).
On this team and in this offense, he's just never going to fit. He's a slasher by nature, so the spacing's not all that great with a post presence and a paint-living point, and he's not the relentless driver to the cup that a guy like Maggette is; force the guy left and he's stopping no closer than the free-throw line for a jumper because he can't turn the corner.
So when you boil it all down, the Spurs are paying $14M for a guy to shoot spot-up threes, play an overall tenative game offensively and play some uninspired, ineffective, defense on the perimeter.
I knew there was a reason I didn't like RJ as a fit...
According to 82games.com, RJ averages 5.7 rebounds per 48 minutes when he plays SF. When he's at PF, he averages 5.7 rebounds per 48 minutes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Agloco
That tells me two things. First of all, he's a disappointing rebounder no matter how you want to frame it. Second of all, he's a disaster as a small ball power forward. If you aren't going to raise your rebounding rate at all even though you switch to a position that demands rebounding, something is wrong.
As sad as it is, I'd rather see today's Michael Finley play small ball power forward than RJ.
Why doesnt Pop just bench this guy. Bring his ass off the bench...
Actually, not at all. RJ gets 6.9% of available rebounds. Bowen would get about 6% of available rebounds. In fact, as recently as 2006, Bowen was also grabbing 6.9% of available rebounds.Quote:
Originally Posted by exstatic
Add in the fact that Bowen was typically glued to an opposing perimeter player and never even tried to get offensive rebounds ... and one could very easily make the case that Bowen was the better rebounder. Pitiful, I know.
The aspect I hate most about RJ's lack of rebounding is that his effort on the boards is tied to the number of touches he gets. In games that he shoots more than 10 times, he averages a very respectable 5.5 rebounds per game. But in all other contests, he averages an embarrassing 2.6 rebounds per game.
That's just flat out sickening. And there's really no excuse. The coaching staff has been begging him to rebound more but he just doesn't rebound unless he's involved offensively. That's unbelievably lame.
In the last three seasons he averaged 4.4 rebounds in like 37 minutes per game. Last season he had 3 boards or less in at least a dozen games, at least. I hope nobody was expecting a monster on the boards in RJ... I'd actually like to see who of all the Spurs has pulled down the most boards in 4th quarters. While I'm sure it's not RJ, I don't think he's been that bad on "important" rebounds... If any stat surprises me the most it's the fact that Jefferson is tied for 3rd in total blocks for our team... We really need another big, or at least start nudging Ratliff into the regular rotation.
Let's not sugarcoat it. I don't care what "percentages" you bring out. Bruce Bowen sucked ass on the boards and that's the bottom line :lolQuote:
Originally Posted by timvp
Naturally. I'm not saying Bowen was a good rebounder, I'm showing how bad of a rebounder RJ has been this season.Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmanyr2k
Bruce got a free pass for his outstanding D, if Jefferson was at least more aggresive on Offense/Defense then I wouldn't mind his poor rebounding.
That's a bit hypocritical. You can't give Bowen a pass for not rebounding the ball because of defense when rebounding is APART of defense. You're not done defending until you rebound the ball. There have been many times where the Spurs got KILLED on the boards because their SF was garbage in that aspect of the game but I didn't see anyone calling Bruce out for it. You can make that excuse that Bowen was sticking to his man 100% of the time but that excuse is just plain awful.Quote:
Originally Posted by Muser
Funny thing is Jefferson used to be a tremendous rebounder for a small forward. His rebound rate was among the league leaders at SF (usually 10+, which is fantastic) then all of sudden he stopped rebounding in 06-07 and hasn't looked back.
Fail. The Spurs were an elite defensive rebounding team in each year of Bowen's career. They were top three just about every season.Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmanyr2k
When Bowen's lack of rebounding killed the Spurs was when he was at power forward. However, that was just as much an issue with small ball as it was with Bowen being a weak rebounder. When he was at SF, the Spurs never had problem rebounding. Where are you getting that from?
I am disappointing by jefferson too but whaaaaQuote:
Originally Posted by Blackjack
What? Bowen was the best perimeter defender of the last decade and was a big part of one of the best defensive teams in the history of the NBA. My point was that Bowen made up for his weak rebounding and weak offensive game by shutting down the opponents best perimeter player. Also as timvp said a lot of the times he was guarding a big (Dirk etc.) and so naturally he would lose the rebound.Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmanyr2k
Scottie Pippen was the best perimeter defender of the 90's and was a big part of some great defensive teams as well. He guarded players of all positions and still found a way to pull down 7-9 boards a game even with a ton of offensive responsibilities as well. Bruce Bowen didn't do half the shit on defense that Pippen did and still couldn't manage at least 5 boards being a 6'7 guy? That excuse isn't flying. Rebounding takes effort and can anyone really say Bowen ever made an effort to hit the boards even when they were really needed?Quote:
Originally Posted by Muser
Just because the Spurs were statistically a good rebounding team doesn't mean they didn't get their clocks cleaned in a playoff series by a tough rebounding team. And yes part of the reason was because small ball was employed stupidly by Popovich but does that mean Bruce Bowen still can't come up with a big rebounding game? The Mavs series in 2006 comes to mind. The Mavs seem to get to every loose ball and offensive rebound during that series. Bruce Bowen wasn't making any kind of effort whatsoever to defensive rebound and he wasn't on Dirk 24/7 so that's no excuse.Quote:
Originally Posted by timvp
Bowen isn't as good as a Hall of Famer who is one of the best 50 players of all-time?Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmanyr2k
Shocking revelation.
Name one in which the poor rebounding can't be attributed to small ball.Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmanyr2k
That's what happens when one team is playing a big lineup and the other one is playing small ball. You said that Bowen at SF hurt the Spurs rebounding-wise. The 2006 Mavs series doesn't apply to that theory.Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmanyr2k
The Spurs outrebounded the Mavs in that series when they weren't using small ball. And it wasn't a matter of a lack of effort. Dirk was just a much better rebounder that Bowen. Dirk was taller, stronger, more athletic, more adept to playing in the paint, etc. Expecting Bowen to compete against Dirk on the boards was simply a poor coaching move.Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmanyr2k
To rebound the basketball you don't have to be as good as a Hall of Famer :lolQuote:
Originally Posted by timvp
It just takes effort.
Out of curiosity, what's our record when he has taken 10+ shots?Quote:
Originally Posted by timvp
:lol If only rebounding were that simple.Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmanyr2k
9-7 by my quick count.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElNono
I was hoping that would give me more ammo to fire at Pop, but no cigar... :lolQuote:
Originally Posted by timvp
Thanks :toast
Fail.Quote:
Originally Posted by Agloco
In comparison, Charles Barkely is 6'4".
RJ just does not give that effort required of someone making $14million a year.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wijayas
Barkley and RJ are two completely different players. Besides, Barkley was like 250lbs, just like Blair.
:lol:tuQuote:
Originally Posted by exstatic
Don't you think it is silly to compare Bruce vs. Scottie? It is like comparing MJ vs. Dirk!Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmanyr2k
Right. They are completely different players because of their efforts are different.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hooks
Pippen > Bowen
Who'd of thunk it?