David Aldridge on Manu Ginobili

Manu Ginobili never thought he'd wear another team's uniform. Now, he has to allow that it is possible.

"I said it many times: if you had asked me a year ago, a year and a half ago, it was basically no question in my mind that I was going to be a Spur, probably, forever," Ginobili said last week. "But it didn't happen. Injuries first, Olympic Games or whatever, it didn't happen, and now I'm three months away from becoming a free agent. So I know it's going to happen. And I owe it to myself. It's probably going to be my last contract. So I'm going to sit, study the offers, see what's out there for me and then make a decision."

The 32-year-old Ginobili now knows that there is no contract extension coming from the Spurs, and that he probably won't be in San Antonio next season. The Spurs' window for paying luxury tax is for this year and next only, and Ginobili isn't going to sign for just one year when there's so much uncertainty about the ongoing labor negotiations. So for now, he plays on, trying to regain the form that made him so important during San Antonio's title runs.

But the numbers don't lie. Ginobili's production has dropped from 19.5 points per game in 2007-08, to 15.5 points last season and 13.2 points this season. He's averaging just 11 points and shooting just 37 percent away from home. And though Ginobili swears he feels great physically and is getting his legs back after being limited the past two seasons with ankle troubles, San Antonio's fear is that the past few years serve as prologue.

Last week's TNT game in Portland crystalized the issue. For much of the game, Ginobili was brilliant, doing all of the things that have made him so valuable for the Spurs and so maddening for opponents. But in the fourth quarter, neither Ginobili nor the Spurs could close the deal, and he missed a wide-open three in the closing seconds that would have tied the score. One game, one shot, I know, and maybe Ginobili does have another great run in him.

But Ginobili's injuries and past commitments to the Argentinian National Team for international competition, which culminated in a gold medal for the Argentines in Athens in 2004, combined with the Spurs' long playoff runs this past decade, have put a lot of mileage on his tires. Ginobili is done with international play now after Spurs coach Gregg Popovich made his displeasure plain. But San Antonio is willing to let him explore free agency -- and willing, it seems, to let him walk.

"It's different," Ginobili said. "I was in this situation after my second year in the league, when I was a free agent. But I didn't think it was going to be at this point. But now it will and now I've got to make up my mind. And I'm going to be ready to change teams if I have to"...

http://www.nba.com/2010/news/feature...s=iref:nbahpt1

It's almost unthinkable but I think the reports are right and Manu may be playing his last year with the Spurs. If his game suffers, he will be gone. If he plays well, other teams will outbid the Spurs for his services. Extending his contract was the best way to retain him but the FO isn't willing to take the gamble. He was bound to leave sooner or later. just wish it was the latter.

I will always be a fan of Manu no matter he plays for the Spurs of not. Its going to be sad to see him in another jersey.

Trading him and Jefferson + Mahinmi/expiring for Iguodala and Dalembert would help get this team another player like Manu in his prime in Iguodala AND a great defensive big to play alongside Tim for the rest of Duncan's contract.

Spurs could then negotiate with Manu this summer about returning to the Spurs next season while suring up it's perimeter and interior defense now.

I'm really getting tired of Manu's drama-queen act every time the Spurs are on national TV. He's not living up to his contract this year and he didn't last year either.

Is this new? I mean, sound like the same old quotes from a few weeks back...

Once the trade deadline passes . . . EXTEND THIS TURKEY!

I'm tired of hearing about him losing his innocence or whatever.

I've been feeling this coming for a while and maybe this is why George Hill is being groomed into being a SG alongside Tony Parker. I always thought Manu would always be a Spur so it'll be sad to see him not retire as a Spur but it's business and I understand each other's concerns.

The question here is:

Why Pop and the Spurs are going to Pay Next Year 15 Millions to Jefferson if they dont want to pay that money for Manu?

The only answer can be: With Jefferson and Manu´s resign and trade, the Spurs can play hard in the Free Agent Market, For example could pay 25-30 Millions to Lebron James, Melo or d Wade in a Sign and Trade.

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Originally Posted by waly.mg

The question here is:

Why Pop and the Spurs are going to Pay Next Year 15 Millions to Jefferson if they dont want to pay that money for Manu?

The only answer can be: With Jefferson and Manu´s resign and trade, the Spurs can play hard in the Free Agent Market, For example could pay 25-30 Millions to Lebron James, Melo or d Wade in a Sign and Trade.

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We are not players in the market really for any of those players. Their teams would have to be willing to take back what we would offer. Manu would have to agree to a sign and trade. Teams would have to accept Jefferson as well.
Teams would at least would likely want some young promising talent as well.

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Originally Posted by ElNono

Is this new? I mean, sound like the same old quotes from a few weeks back...

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I can't find the quotes elsewhere so it looks like they are new quotes. If that is correct, Manu's whining really is getting old.

He turned down an extension to play in the Olympics. The Spurs were ready to make him a Spur for life. He. Turned. It. Down. Manu needs to stop being such a baby and live with his own decision.

Extending him after the trade deadline sounds like it needs to happen. It would obviously calm him down and allow him to focus solely on basketball again. Then, hopefully, he could start hitting shots outside of ten feet again . . .

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Originally Posted by timvp

I can't find the quotes elsewhere so it looks like they are new quotes. If that is correct, Manu's whining really is getting old.

He turned down an extension to play in the Olympics. The Spurs were ready to make him a Spur for life. He. Turned. It. Down. Manu needs to stop being such a baby and live with his own decision.

Extending him after the trade deadline sounds like it needs to happen. It would obviously calm him down and allow him to focus solely on basketball again. Then, hopefully, he could start hitting shots outside of ten feet again . . .

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The article mentions the quotes as being from a week ago, which coincides with this article from January 29 which basically says pretty much the same thing. I thought I heard that before. The article also mentions him being asked about it, which wouldn't surprise me if it was indeed Aldridge.

Funnily enough, you said then:

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Originally Posted by timvp

As I've said previously, Manu is being a bit of a drama queen about his contract situation. He could have already received his extension if that was what he wanted -- but he decided to play for his NT instead. That was his decision and he should just live with the consequences. Contract extensions are pretty rare -- and are unheard of for players who have gone through two straight injury plagued season.

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Originally Posted by ElNono

The article mentions the quotes as being from a week ago, which coincides with this article from January 29 which basically says pretty much the same thing. I thought I heard that before.

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Are the quotes from that article? If so, no wonder I couldn't find the quotes.

Usually, DA gets his own quotes ... I doubt he'd steal them from a Spanish interview but maybe he did.

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Originally Posted by ElNono

Funnily enough, you said then:

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At least that timvp guy is consistent :tu

Who do you guys think the Spurs would get to replace Manu if we don't resign him?

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Originally Posted by timvp

Are the quotes from that article? If so, no wonder I couldn't find the quotes.
Usually, DA gets his own quotes ... I doubt he'd steal them from a Spanish interview but maybe he did.

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The article was written by Manu for his website and commented on the situation. He wrote it about a week ago, and he prefaced those comments with 'somebody asked me'. He didn't mention Aldridge, but considering he wrote back then the same thing he's quoted as saying now, and the dates match, I would say the guy he mentions in his article is probably David.

LOL @ Manu not living up to his contract last year, I mean the man suffered an injury ffs...this year you could say he isnt earning his money although the same could be said about everyone on the team outside of Duncan, Hill, and Blair. Besides we were paying him like $8 mill/yr when he was the third best SG in the league right behind Kobe and Wade, whereas most players of his caliber had max deals. Fans are in no position to say he hasnt earned his money because regardless of what he's done the last two years he has still outplayed his contract by alot. Also Manu is one of those legendary Spurs players who's jersey will hang from the rafters and who should retire a Spur, Manu has all the right to be upset about the FO not feeling the same.

this shits getting really old really fucking fast.

stfu and play.

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Originally Posted by FkLA

LOL @ Manu not living up to his contract last year, I mean the man suffered an injury ffs...this year you could say he isnt earning his money although the same could be said about everyone on the team outside of Duncan, Hill, and Blair. Besides we were paying him like $8 mill/yr when he was the third best SG in the league right behind Kobe and Wade, whereas most players of his caliber had max deals. Fans are in no position to say he hasnt earned his money because regardless of what he's done the last two years he has still outplayed his contract by alot.

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I wouldn't extend Jefferson either. Parker's on the right side of 30 and doesn't have a long injury history pointing to his body breaking down like Manu's has. His injury last season wasn't some isolated event. He broke down the year before that too, and he looks like he still hasn't recovered. $11 million for 40% shooting in 27 minutes a night is a rip-off, and if Manu expects that kind of pay to continue, let him walk.

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Originally Posted by Hooks

Who do you guys think the Spurs would get to replace Manu if we don't resign him?

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Someone much worse.

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Originally Posted by ElNono

The article was written by Manu for his website and commented on the situation. He wrote it about a week ago, and he prefaced those comments with 'somebody asked me'. He didn't mention Aldridge, but considering he wrote back then the same thing he's quoted as saying now, and the dates match, I would say the guy he mentions in his article is probably David.

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Do you think a contract extension would help Manu play better this season?

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Originally Posted by baseline bum

I wouldn't extend Jefferson either. Parker's on the right side of 30 and doesn't have a long injury history pointing to his body breaking down like Manu's has. His injury last season wasn't some isolated event. He broke down the year before that too, and he looks like he still hasn't recovered. $11 million for 40% shooting in 27 minutes a night is a rip-off, and if Manu expects that kind of pay to continue, let him walk.

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The man, even if miles have taken a toll on his body, is still a vital part of this team. He's the best passer and playmaker we have and still goes balls out every single game, we all know Manu brings so much more to the table than just shooting. Besides like I said regardless of what he is doing this year or last year he outplayed his contract tremendously...he was the third best SG in the league making $8 mill/yr while everyone of his caliber was on max or close to max deals. I dont even think people realize what a bargain that was.

Also I dont think he expects 11 mill/yr on his next contract, I think 3 yrs for 25 mill could get the job done. More than fair and deserved in my opinion.

We have retired the numbers of six players--Johnny Moore, James Silas, George Gervin, David Robinson, Sean Elliott and Avery Johnson.

The only one that wasn't traded away by the Spurs to another team is DROB. Fans didn't like any of the trades, but we got over it---and for the most part, so did the players.

I won't like it if Manu gets traded and will miss him, but in every case but one--Sean Elliott---the Spurs FO's judgement was proved correct and the player's best days were behind him.

If Manu is clearly healthy, as he claims, I'm starting to wonder whether all this contract uncertainty is distracting his play. There is certainly something missing from his game.

Whatever the case, Manu should accept the fact that this situation is of HIS own doing. I wouldn't want to see the guy walk, but I cannot fault the Spurs for shutting down extension talks once Manu got injured.

If he does walk, I expect an entirely new swingman rotation in here for next year. After all, at the rate he's going, RJ will likely be gone before Manu.

If we lose Manu we pretty much have no player that brings all those intangibles. Losing Bruce, Horry, and Oberto without getting BBIQ in return has hurt in that area. Another year on Duncan and we are just a bunch of players that can put up numbers. What you see is what you get.

I'd like to think that Duncan can carry an entire team at his age, but I don't see it. We need Manu, but at the right price.

Manu will never find a place as great as SA for him. It's quite dumb from him to whine like that a couple of weeks before the trade deadline. And he should keep a low profile. He has received $19M in 07-08 and 08-09 while he hasn't helped at all Spurs to win a title.

I'm all for Spurs keeping Manu for this year and after it but this attitude doesn't help his cause.

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Originally Posted by timvp

Do you think a contract extension would help Manu play better this season?

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He admitted that the topic was in his head before writing that piece (urunobili did a translation of it. It's on that thread), but he basically said he was no longer concerned about that, and that he'll do what's best come June after sitting with Many. I don't know how much of that is self-talk and how much is real. He's the only one that knows. Honestly, I think he's been playing well lately (maybe the Clippers is a game where he didn't play that great), it's just his shot that's not falling and hasn't fallen all season pretty much.

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Originally Posted by Bruno

Manu will never find a place as great as SA for him. It's quite dumb from him to whine like that a couple of weeks before the trade deadline. And he should keep a low profile. He has received $19M in 07-08 and 08-09 while he hasn't helped at all Spurs to win a title.

I'm all for Spurs keeping Manu for this year and after it but this attitude doesn't help his cause.

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In 07-08 he helped San Antonio a lot more than pretty much any other Spurs player.

Here's some FO logic from B&B Entreprises:

- If the Spurs have made it clear to Manu that they are not seeing him in "good enough" form to extend his contract, then they obviously do not have confidence that he is "good enough" to be a part of a championship run.
- If the Spurs do not think he is "good enough" to be part of a championship run, they will use Manu's trade weight to get someone that can be part of a championship run.
- If the Spurs simply stay the course and let him go after they are unceremoniously dumped out of the playoffs, then it shows the FO lacks killer instinct after the RJ trade.

Therefore, the Spurs will trade Manu to stop the bleeding and hopefully gain another productive piece instead of trying to sign a replacement in the off-season that ain't worth jack shit. :(

I just wanted to point out that those comments are from last week, when he was talking about that stuff. This isn't any 'new' whining...

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Originally Posted by waly.mg

The question here is:

Why Pop and the Spurs are going to Pay Next Year 15 Millions to Jefferson if they dont want to pay that money for Manu?

The only answer can be: With Jefferson and Manu´s resign and trade, the Spurs can play hard in the Free Agent Market, For example could pay 25-30 Millions to Lebron James, Melo or d Wade in a Sign and Trade.

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Ugh, we're not in the running for any of those guys, put down the crackpipe.

Sounds like he's playing his part, looking ahead to contract negotiations and talking tough.

Timing is weird though.

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Originally Posted by DAF86

In 07-08 he helped San Antonio a lot more than pretty much any other Spurs player.

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The main reason Spurs lost against Lakers was Manu being owned by Sasha freaking Vujacic.

I don't give a fuck if a player is great for a couple of playoffs series. Spurs' goal is to win the championship, not to reach the WCF.

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Originally Posted by adam8065

right, because when Manu is out on the floor he never gives 110%. He is the Laziest Spur around.

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wtf are you talking about... him giving 110% out on the floor has nothing to do with him continously talking about free agency when this team has much bigger problems to deal with then his next contract.

its just simply annoying. we all get he is going to test free agency.. yes, thats too bad, yes that sucks, but thats already set in stone. hes said it 1000 fucking times now. so how about he worries about his team NOW this year.



fucking star studded LEBRON JAMES wont even talk about free agency right now..........

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Originally Posted by Bruno

The main reason Spurs lost against Lakers was Manu being owned by Sasha freaking Vujacic.

I don't give a fuck if a player is great for a couple of playoffs series. Spurs' goal is to win the championship, not to reach the WCF.

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Well in that case Parker has earned like 25+ mill the last two years without helping the Spurs win a championship, Duncan 35+ mill. Thats significantly more than Manu. I mean you cant just say "Manu has earned 19 mill over the last two year w/o bringing a championship" as if he's the highest paid player or as if he's the only reason the Spurs are no longer winning titles.

He was underpaid in his prime, he's being overpayed now in his twilight. The man is looking for a final big paycheck, the Spurs are looking to keep him at a steep discount. Let's see who wins :downspin::toast

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Originally Posted by Bruno

The main reason Spurs lost against Lakers was Manu being owned by Sasha freaking Vujacic.

I don't give a fuck if a player is great for a couple of playoffs series. Spurs' goal is to win the championship, not to reach the WCF.

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He still did something to help the Spurs that season, if he would have done nothing the Spurs wouldn't have made the playoffs let alone the WCF.

What I don't understand is why Manu doesn't assume more responsibility for this situation that he helped create. Basically, he's been rendered unavailable for the past 2 postseasons. I love the guy, but he should look at the big picture here. Of course, it is a business, as he's quickly found out.

Some of you guys are really funny... He got injured in 2008 busting his ass for the Spurs throughout the entire season... He didn't even play ball the summer before...

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Originally Posted by DAF86

He still did something to help the Spurs that season, if he would have done nothing the Spurs wouldn't have made the playoffs let alone the WCF.

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Awesome, let's raise a banner for having reached the playoffs and the WCF.

Spurs' goal is to win a championship. A player who is consistently good is an hundred time more valuable than a player who is great for some games and bad for other ones.

Spurs' hopes to win a championship have ended with a Manu's injury both in 08 and 09. I like Manu but he should shut the fuck up and realizes that he has been paid $19M for not being there when the team needed him the most.

I can't imagine Manu Ginobili in any other jersey than the Spurs or Argentinian team.

It will be a sad day when #20 plays against his team. Hopefully we can resign him for perhaps like the MLE, or 6-7 million, 2 years.

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Originally Posted by elnono

is this new? I mean, sound like the same old quotes from a few months back...

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fify

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bruno

Awesome, let's raise a banner for having reached the playoffs and the WCF.

Spurs' goal is to win a championship. A player who is consistently good is an hundred time more valuable than a player who is great for some games and bad for other ones.

Spurs' hopes to win a championship have ended with a Manu's injury both in 08 and 09. I like Manu but he should shut the fuck up and realizes that he has been paid $19M for not being there when the team needed him the most.

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So I guess that 99% of the NBA players don't deserve the money they get 'cause they don't help their teams win champiosnhips, I agree that Manu should STFU but your argument is stupid.

David Aldridge spoke to Manu last week (IIRC in Portland) and asked him about it, and Manu answered his questions.

Manu please STFU..

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Originally Posted by DAF86

So I guess that 99% of the NBA players don't deserve the money they get 'cause they don't help their teams win champiosnhips.

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Well, you guess wrong.

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Originally Posted by baseline bum

I wouldn't extend Jefferson either. Parker's on the right side of 30 and doesn't have a long injury history pointing to his body breaking down like Manu's has. His injury last season wasn't some isolated event. He broke down the year before that too, and he looks like he still hasn't recovered. $11 million for 40% shooting in 27 minutes a night is a rip-off, and if Manu expects that kind of pay to continue, let him walk.

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I agree. If you extend Manu solely on what he has done in the past and not what he will do in the future then championships won't be in the future.

He needs to be evaluated on his current play and the spurs are smart to wait this out.

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Originally Posted by Stringer_Bell

Here's some FO logic from B&B Entreprises:

- If the Spurs have made it clear to Manu that they are not seeing him in "good enough" form to extend his contract, then they obviously do not have confidence that he is "good enough" to be a part of a championship run.
- If the Spurs do not think he is "good enough" to be part of a championship run, they will use Manu's trade weight to get someone that can be part of a championship run.
- If the Spurs simply stay the course and let him go after they are unceremoniously dumped out of the playoffs, then it shows the FO lacks killer instinct after the RJ trade.

Therefore, the Spurs will trade Manu to stop the bleeding and hopefully gain another productive piece instead of trying to sign a replacement in the off-season that ain't worth jack shit. :(

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This would be the best course of action to take.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stringer_Bell

Here's some FO logic from B&B Entreprises:

- If the Spurs have made it clear to Manu that they are not seeing him in "good enough" form to extend his contract, then they obviously do not have confidence that he is "good enough" to be a part of a championship run.
- If the Spurs do not think he is "good enough" to be part of a championship run, they will use Manu's trade weight to get someone that can be part of a championship run.
- If the Spurs simply stay the course and let him go after they are unceremoniously dumped out of the playoffs, then it shows the FO lacks killer instinct after the RJ trade.

Therefore, the Spurs will trade Manu to stop the bleeding and hopefully gain another productive piece instead of trying to sign a replacement in the off-season that ain't worth jack shit. :(

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I expect the Spurs to wait out until right after the trade deadline. If he's not gone, then I'm pretty confident they're going to start talking to his agent about an extension (provided he stays as healthy as he is now). Wether he accepts what the Spurs offer or not, that's a different story. At the very least, I expect a low-ball offer.

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Originally Posted by Bruno

Spurs' hopes to win a championship have ended with a Duncan's injury both in 00 and 06. I like Duncan but he should shut the fuck up and realizes that he has been paid $26M for not being there when the team needed him the most.

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See how easy it is? See how retarded your point is?

Injuries happen. They didn't injure themselves on purpose. Neither wanted to have inuries, and they both wanted to be healthy when the team needed them.
it's just out of their control, period.

whoa easy on the duncan bashing :nope

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Originally Posted by ElNono

See how easy it is? See how retarded your point is?

Injuries happen. They didn't injure themselves on purpose. Neither wanted to have inuries, and they both wanted to be healthy when the team needed them.
it's just out of their control, period.

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Huh? Duncan's 41 pts and 15 rebs is why the Spurs lost game 7?

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Originally Posted by baseline bum

Huh? Duncan's 41 pts and 15 rebs is why the Spurs lost game 7?

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No, Duncan having planar fasciitis is why it even got to a game 7. Remember Diop looking like Wilt Chamberlain?

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Originally Posted by ElNono

No, Duncan having planar fasciitis is why it even got to a game 7. Remember Diop looking like Wilt Chamberlain?

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No. I remember Diop looking like Ian Mahinmi.

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Originally Posted by baseline bum

No. I remember Diop looking like Ian Mahinmi.

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Then dust off the tapes and take another look at OT in game 7...

I don't know if this is a bargaining tactic by Manu or if it was translated incorrectly but that "And I owe it to myself." sounds like he's pretty pissed at the Spurs.

This is so pointless. Manu had his extension and he left it on the table, yes or no?

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Originally Posted by Allanon

I don't know if this is a bargaining tactic by Manu or if it was translated incorrectly but that "And I owe it to myself." sounds like he's pretty pissed at the Spurs.

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Why would he be?

And BTW, I don't hold anything against Duncan... he is a warrior and gave us all he could give us. Same for Manu in the series against NO in 2008, when he was already injured.
Shit like this happens. Players get banged up and injured. I'm not going to hold it against them because they left it all out there for the team.

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Originally Posted by DPG21920

Why would he be?

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I dunno. I don't keep up with the Manu situation. You guys know better than me.

All I read was a couple of weeks ago where he said that "lost innocence" line. Then he adds this which sounds like he's saying "F the loyalties, this one's for me."

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Originally Posted by DPG21920

This is so pointless. Manu had his extension and he left it on the table, yes or no?

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No, the Spurs took it off the table when he didn't reject playing for the NT in Beijing.

Diop came in rested, he only played 10 minutes. Duncan played 50. Duncan left it all on the court, he needed two bags of fluid after that game.

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Originally Posted by ElNono

See how easy it is? See how retarded your point is?

Injuries happen. They didn't injure themselves on purpose. Neither wanted to have inuries, and they both wanted to be healthy when the team needed them.
it's just out of their control, period.

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It's sure that Duncan was damn bad against Mavs in 06. :rolleyes

And RIF.
Have I said it was Manu's fault that he was injured? No.

Spurs have paid a lot of money a player who wasn't able to help them when they needed him. It's quite unreal that this player whines because he didn't get an extension.

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Originally Posted by duncan228

Diop came in rested, he only played 10 minutes. Duncan played 50. Duncan left it all on the court, he needed two bags of fluid after that game.

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No doubt. And Duncan played with planar fasciitis pretty much almost all season. He was a warrior, always been. Even last season with the knees banged up, he still showed up to play hard every night.

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Originally Posted by ElNono

No, the Spurs took it off the table when he didn't reject playing for the NT in Beijing.

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No. The said here Manu, make your decision. He made the decision. He walked away.

:lol at comparing Duncan to Manu. Duncan lead the team to 4 titles. Manu?

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Originally Posted by Bruno

And RIF.
Have I said it was Manu's fault that he was injured? No.

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No, you said he was paid a lot to suck against Vujacic, when you know damn well he has been injured since the Suns series.

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Originally Posted by Bruno

Spurs have paid a lot of money a player who wasn't able to help them when they needed him. It's quite unreal that this player whines because he didn't get an extension.

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How is he whining? He's saying that he's convinced he'll get to free agency and that he'll decide then. He's not asking the Spurs for anything.

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Originally Posted by DPG21920

No. The said here Manu, make your decision. He made the decision. He walked away.

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Not according to what Manu said. He said contract negotiations with his agent were in place until the traveled to Argentina to start the rehab in his ankle. At that point, and this is according to him, the Spurs decided to unilaterally terminate conversations.

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Originally Posted by DPG21920

:lol at comparing Duncan to Manu. Duncan lead the team to 4 titles. Manu?

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Who's comparing Duncan to Manu at leading the team to titles? Strawman much?

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Originally Posted by ElNono

No, the Spurs took it off the table when he didn't reject playing for the NT in Beijing.

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Originally Posted by ElNono

Not according to what Manu said. He said contract negotiations with his agent were in place until the traveled to Argentina to start the rehab in his ankle. At that point, and this is according to him, the Spurs decided to unilaterally terminate conversations.

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So which is it? Did they offer him something? Or were they just talking and never made an offer once he left for Argentina?

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Originally Posted by ElNono

Who's comparing Duncan to Manu at leading the team to titles? Strawman much?

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You said "your argument sucks because in the years we did not win, Tim was getting paid to not help"...and you brought up Diop.

Tim gets a pass that Manu does not because of what he has done. And the comparison of Tim vs Diop moment, versus Manu season(s) long injuries is crazy.

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Originally Posted by ElNono

No, you said he was paid a lot to suck against Vujacic, when you know damn well he has been injured since the Suns series.

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And?

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Originally Posted by ElNono

How is he whining? He's saying that he's convinced he'll get to free agency and that he'll decide then. He's not asking the Spurs for anything.

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Then re-read what he is saying.

Strangely I'm not the only one who thinks he is whining. We should be all wrong and you should be right.

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Originally Posted by DPG21920

So which is it? Did they offer him something? Or were they just talking and never made an offer once he left for Argentina?

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They stopped negotiations when he left for Argentina to start the rehab. Obviously it was a way to pressure him.

The extent of his 'whining' is that he has expressed he's disappointed that the Spurs haven't come back to the table since then.

with manus past history of injuries i dont see any other logical thing to do then to wait this season out and see if he can stay healthy... the spurs are doing this the right way. manu on the other hand... isn't. and i dont see any reason for manu to be upset by this decision by the spurs especially with his past injuries.

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Originally Posted by ElNono

They stopped negotiations when he left for Argentina to start the rehab. Obviously it was a way to pressure him.

The extent of his 'whining' is that he has expressed he's disappointed that the Spurs haven't come back to the table since then.

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Why would they? So you are saying there was definitely no official offer?

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Originally Posted by Bruno

Then re-read what he is saying.
Strangely I'm not the only one who thinks he is whining. We should be all wrong and you should be right.

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I still don't see where's the whining...

- He was asked about his contract situation.
- He said he's disappointed that the Spurs didn't offer and extension and that he'll take a look at his options in June.

Where's the whining exactly?

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Originally Posted by DPG21920

Tim gets a pass that Manu does not because of what he has done. And the comparison of Tim vs Diop moment, versus Manu season(s) long injuries is crazy.

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Bruno wasn't talking about season long injuries. He was talking about being injury-free in the playoffs. If you're going to comment, please catch up with the thread first.

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Originally Posted by DPG21920

Why would they? So you are saying there was definitely no official offer?

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Why would they what?

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Originally Posted by DPG21920

You said "your argument sucks because in the years we did not win, Tim was getting paid to not help"...and you brought up Diop.

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And BTW, I brought the Diop argument because it's exactly the same as the Vujacic argument. It's a retarded argument. When healthy, there's no way what happened happens.

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Originally Posted by ElNono

I still don't see where's the whining...

- He was asked about his contract situation.
- He said he's disappointed that the Spurs didn't offer and extension and that he'll take a look at his options in June.

Where's the whining exactly?

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That's whining.
Maybe you didn't like the childish side of the word whining. You can call that complaining if you like it more but it's the same thing.

Why would they resume negotiations when they made an offer and he chose to his country over his team?

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Originally Posted by DPG21920

Why would they resume negotiations when they made an offer and he chose to his country over his team?

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Maybe you can't read. They never made an offer. They walked away during conversations. There was no offer at the time.

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Originally Posted by ElNono

Maybe you can't read. They never made an offer. They walked away during conversations. There was no offer at the time.

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You are sure of this? Because I have heard differently. Can someone else confirm this?

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Originally Posted by Bruno

That's whining.
Maybe you didn't like the childish side of the word whining. You can call that complaining if you like it more but it's the same thing.

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Saying that he thought the Spurs would make an offer is whining? Whatever, Bruno.

My point stands. If you hold against him having injuries then you have to hold it against Duncan too. Which is entirely stupid, IMO. These are guys that left it all out there for the franchise, no questions asked.

Heck, I don't think the Spurs should offer him anything up until after the trade deadline either. Makes business sense.

Also, :lol at the maybe you can't read comment. Can you read Manu's comments and not see he is whining?

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Originally Posted by DPG21920

You are sure of this? Because I have heard differently. Can someone else confirm this?

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Google is your friend: http://nba.fanhouse.com/2008/09/04/d...ct-in-beijing/

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Originally Posted by ElNono

And BTW, I don't hold anything against Duncan... he is a warrior and gave us all he could give us. Same for Manu in the series against NO in 2008, when he was already injured.
Shit like this happens. Players get banged up and injured. I'm not going to hold it against them because they left it all out there for the team.

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It's not like were talking about a fluke injury with Manu; if it was, no one in his right mind would want to lose him. His body is consistently breaking down now, and it's a pretty good bet to get even worse with age. Manu's athleticism hasn't looked good all season, and his stamina is awful even in pretty limited minutes now. Every few games we'll see him look like the old Manu, but overall his production is far from being worth $10.7 million.

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Originally Posted by DPG21920

Also, :lol at the maybe you can't read comment. Can you read Manu's comments and not see he is whining?

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I make translations for his site all the time. I read him in Spanish, and I don't see him whining. You see what you want to see, I guess.

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Originally Posted by baseline bum

It's not like were talking about a fluke injury with Manu; if it was, no one in his right mind would want to lose him. His body is consistently breaking down now, and it's a pretty good bet to get even worse with age. Manu's athleticism hasn't looked good all season, and his stamina is awful even in pretty limited minutes now. Every few games we'll see him look like the old Manu, but overall his production is far from being worth $10.7 million.

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No doubt. And as I said many times, there's no way the FO should offer anything at least until after the trade deadline. That said, I'm not going to hold against him getting injured. I mean, if you want to hold against him 2009, then I could see where you're coming from. But 2008? The guy left it all out there for the team.

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Originally Posted by ElNono

My point stands. If you hold against him having injuries then you have to hold it against Duncan too. Which is entirely stupid, IMO.

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If it's your point, then I don't know why you talk to me because I've never hold against Manu his injuries.

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Originally Posted by Bruno

If it's your point, then I don't know why you talk to me because I've never hold against Manu his injuries.

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That's entirely my point, and comes from this post:

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Originally Posted by Bruno

The main reason Spurs lost against Lakers was Manu being owned by Sasha freaking Vujacic.

I don't give a fuck if a player is great for a couple of playoffs series. Spurs' goal is to win the championship, not to reach the WCF.

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Originally Posted by Manu

And I'm going to be ready to change teams if I have to

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That's whining or being a baby or whatever you want to call it. If he said that this coming offseason or last summer, that's one thing. But to openly talk about changing teams in the middle of a season in which both he and the team are underachieving ... that's just lame. If the Spurs were steamrolling and Manu was on fire, it might be somewhat tolerable. Right now? He should be 100% concerned with the here and now.

Luckily for Manu he's the most popular player in Spurs history so he won't catch much heat. Plus, on top of being the most popular, he's also probably the most likable and he gives great effort, so no one will think he's slacking off to protest his contract. But seriously, now is not the time to be complaining or even talking about not getting an extension. I can't remember any Spurs player ever doing something like this ... and now isn't the time to start.

The Spurs made it clear they were willing to bribe him with an extension if he skipped the Olympics. He decided against it. Now the Spurs are doing the smart thing and not committing money to him until at least the trade deadline.

That does not say there was never an offer. That says negotiations were taken off the table. There could have still been an offer by the Spurs to which Manu's agent wanted to counter.

manu is full of shit. he sounds all butt hurt that he hasnt got extended. does he really expect the spurs to GAMBLE on him being healthy. people that gamble play the odds and the odds say that manu will continue to decline and will most likely get hurt again.

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Originally Posted by baseline bum

It's not like were talking about a fluke injury with Manu; if it was, no one in his right mind would want to lose him. His body is consistently breaking down now, and it's a pretty good bet to get even worse with age. Manu's athleticism hasn't looked good all season, and his stamina is awful even in pretty limited minutes now. Every few games we'll see him look like the old Manu, but overall his production is far from being worth $10.7 million.

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Name another serious injury that Manu has had besides this ankle one.

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Originally Posted by DAF86

Name another serious injury that Manu has had besides this ankle one.

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The stress fracture was on the opposite ankle.

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Originally Posted by ElNono

That's entirely my point, and comes from this post:

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How this post says that I'm holding injuries against Manu?

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Originally Posted by timvp

The stress fracture was on the opposite ankle.

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Because of the original injury.

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Originally Posted by timvp

That's whining or being a baby or whatever you want to call it. If he said that this coming offseason or last summer, that's one thing. But to openly talk about changing teams in the middle of a season in which both he and the team are underachieving ... that's just lame. If the Spurs were steamrolling and Manu was on fire, it might be somewhat tolerable. Right now? He should be 100% concerned with the here and now.

Luckily for Manu he's the most popular player in Spurs history so he won't catch much heat. Plus, on top of being the most popular, he's also probably the most likable and he gives great effort, so no one will think he's slacking off to protest his contract. But seriously, now is not the time to be complaining or even talking about not getting an extension. I can't remember any Spurs player ever doing something like this ... and now isn't the time to start.

The Spurs made it clear they were willing to bribe him with an extension if he skipped the Olympics. He decided against it. Now the Spurs are doing the smart thing and not committing money to him until at least the trade deadline.

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Context, LJ, context. That quote you posted is extracted from this:

Justo a mí me involucraron en un cambio directo con Phoenix por Stoudemire, pero no le veo el negocio para ninguno llevarse un jugador por 6 meses que en julio quedará libre.

Repito, no sé qué puede pasar, estoy abierto a todas las posibilidades. Si me tengo que ir de San Antonio no me molestará cambiar, lo hablaré con mi esposa (por suerte lo mellizos no van a opinar... todavía) y evaluaremos las posibilidades; sí me va a doler dejar atrás una historia de ocho años en esta ciudad, donde siempre estuve muy a gusto.

which translated means:

I was just involved in a trade rumor for a direct swap for Stoudemire with Phoenix, but I don't see the what's the good deal to get a player for 6 months that's going to be a FA in july.

I repeat, I don't know what will happen, I'm open to all possibilities. If I have to leave San Antonio I'm going to be ready to change teams if I have to, I'll talk about it with my wife (luckily the twins have no opinion... yet) and we'll evaluate the offer; It will definitely hurt me to leave behind a 8 year story with this city, where I have always been very comfortable.

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Originally Posted by DPG21920

That does not say there was never an offer. That says negotiations were taken off the table. There could have still been an offer by the Spurs to which Manu's agent wanted to counter.

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Doesn't matter. Spurs walked off. Straight from the horse's mouth too.

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"It's different," Ginobili said. "I was in this situation after my second year in the league, when I was a free agent. But I didn't think it was going to be at this point. But now it will and now I've got to make up my mind. And I'm going to be ready to change teams if I have to"...

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I repeat, I don't know what will happen, I'm open to all possibilities. If I have to leave San Antonio I'm going to be ready to change teams if I have to, I'll talk about it with my wife (luckily the twins have no opinion... yet) and we'll evaluate the offer; It will definitely hurt me to leave behind a 8 year story with this city, where I have always been very comfortable.[/I]

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Those look like entirely different quotes.