Wojnarowski: Spurs’ patience with Jefferson running low

LOS ANGELES – The San Antonio Spurs had wanted his old running mate, Vince Carter(notes), but the Orlando Magic made the offer that most intrigued the New Jersey Nets. So, the Spurs’ front office turned to the Milwaukee Bucks for younger legs and a modestly smaller contract, believers that Richard Jefferson(notes) could make a dramatic difference in their chase of the Los Angeles Lakers.

The Bucks wanted Jefferson out of there so badly, they took nothing but expiring contracts and washed-up vets. This wasn’t cost-cutting, as much as cutting their losses. Bucks coach Scott Skiles had little use for Jefferson, found him to be a shell of his old self and was glad to move him. San Antonio didn’t need Jefferson to be a star, but they did need him to be a competent complement to their championship core.

And already, San Antonio coach Gregg Popovich has so little patience left for Jefferson. Already, he’s wondering how he’ll ever make him a Spur.

“They say that when they stop yelling at you, that’s when you have to be worried,” Jefferson said late Monday. “Well, he hasn’t stopped yelling at me yet.”

Here’s how long it took Popovich to explode over Jefferson on Monday night: One Lakers basket. Jefferson lost Ron Artest(notes) on a 3-pointer, and Popovich angrily sent a sub to the scorer’s table. Jefferson looks like the hitter squeezing the bat too tightly, bringing his bad at-bats out into the field where he makes more errors. It has started badly for him in San Antonio and only gotten worse.

No Kobe Bryant(notes), no Andrew Bynum(notes), and the Lakers still destroyed the Spurs 101-89. The Spurs believed the 29-year-old Jefferson would play an immense role in closing the gap with the Lakers, but never have they been so far away. After the summer, the Denver Nuggets privately believed they needed to make another move to elevate over the Spurs. Only, it hasn’t turned out that way. Denver has destroyed the Lakers – with and without Carmelo Anthony(notes) – and the Spurs are floundering in sixth place.

“We haven’t developed a trust, a communication, a camaraderie as far as executing on the court,” Popovich said. “Which is strange for us. We’ve never had this situation.

“…For some reason, I’m not getting through to this group.”

No one has befuddled Popovich like Jefferson. The Spurs are dumbfounded about how to reach him, how to use him, how to get him to play fluid, mistake-free basketball. Jefferson missed nine of his 11 shots against the Lakers, wide-open jumpers that didn’t fall. He makes $14.2 million this season and $15 million next season. Only Tim Duncan(notes) makes more among these Spurs. Jefferson is the reason that owner Peter Holt was willing to push the payroll past $80 million and well into the luxury tax.

Jefferson isn’t turning into a final piece to chase the Lakers, but a crippling, contractual albatross.

One mistake compounds the next, and Jefferson looks burdened, lost and alone. Scouts say “his confidence looks shot,” and that “he isn’t shooting the ball, as much as guiding it.” Jefferson knows his lapses on defense are far more glaring when he can’t score.

“When I’m shooting the ball like this, it makes it hard everyone to get their job done,” he said. “I’m not putting all the blame on me, but you have to look at yourself first.”

As much as anything, the Spurs have lost the identity that won them four championships in nine seasons, that toughness, tenacity that made them a nightmare to play. The Spurs don’t grind teams anymore. They’re one game away from the All-Star break, and they’re no longer playing for seeding in the Western Conference. They’re trying to make the playoffs.

“I was in one situation for seven of eight years, and I’m the one who has to do most of the adjusting here,” Jefferson said. “Tony [Parker], Tim, Manu [Ginobili] are in their system. Keith Bogans(notes) comes here and he’s the defensive player that hits threes. [Antonio McDyess(notes)] picks and pops. I’m in a whole new system trying to find my way.

“But it’s not an excuse. I thought I would have played better by this point.”

Jefferson is smart and mature, and had a young career that benefitted incredibly with Jason Kidd(notes) feeding him the ball and winning him a $76 million contract from the Nets. League sources say the Spurs have raised his name in trades talks, but found out quickly there’s no market for him and his contract.

Together, Jefferson and the Spurs have to make this work. They have to find a way. The Spurs don’t want to bid on Amar’e Stoudemire(notes). They can’t pry Chris Bosh(notes) out of Toronto. Jefferson takes a long look around the NBA, and still believes he has time to resurrect himself out of that trade-bust category. Duncan is getting older, and Ginobili isn’t so fleet, and it isn’t like the Spurs don’t have issues beyond him. Yet, Jefferson understands he was brought here to be the hellacious young star who had grown fast in New Jersey, who went to the NBA Finals twice, who understood what it took to chase championships.

“Across the whole league, you’ve got a lot of guys going to different situations,” Jefferson said. “Vince in Orlando. Hedo [Turkoglu] in Toronto. Rasheed [Wallace] in Boston. All of them want to make an impact and it’s not happening everywhere.”

Those are all thirtysomething players closer to the end, and Jefferson doesn’t have that excuse. He knows that. So do the Spurs. For now, the Spurs and Jefferson are stuck with each other, and need to find a way together. Afterward, Popovich had gone into the locker room and ripped into his players one more time, calling them “soft,” and wondering how the hell they could be so mentally and physically obliterated without Kobe and Bynum on the floor.

The Spurs watch Jefferson jitter over 3-foot putts and miss hanging curves and wonder where in the world his game has gone. When asked about needing Jefferson, about the franchise needing to somehow get a return on this investment, Popovich simply said through gritted teeth, “That would be a great thing.”

The sarcasm suggested that Popovich had waited long enough, that these Spurs were running out of time for Jefferson, out of patience. Jefferson hadn’t come to the Spurs to be a savior, but to make them relevant in the Western Conference again, to stand up to the champion Lakers. Jefferson had come to give Duncan and Ginobili one more shot at a title, one more run, and this has turned into a startling failure.

Yes, Gregg Popovich is still screaming at Jefferson, still trying to will something out of him. For how much longer, who knows? For now, the Spurs and Jefferson are stuck with each other. They’ve got to make this work, or perhaps Richard Jefferson turns out to be the last breath of San Antonio’s dynasty.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_yl...yhoo&type=lgns

I see the 1st sentence, then I didn't want to read any more.

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Originally Posted by Spursfanfromafar

League sources say the Spurs have raised his name in trades talks, but found out quickly there’s no market for him and his contract.

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Figured that...

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Originally Posted by Spursfanfromafar

For now, the Spurs and Jefferson are stuck with each other. They’ve got to make this work, or perhaps Richard Jefferson turns out to be the last breath of San Antonio’s dynasty.

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:depressed

WOW. That is really all I can say. The truth is a bitch.

QUESTION:

Even if RJ turns it around...starts hitting wide open 3's and mid-range jumpers, starts driving to the basket with purpose, starts getting 20 point games...does this even make the Spurs a contender at this point?

Not without another defensive presence in the post.... all that would do is make us a good team again, 2nd round capabilities. Wouldn't beat a Denver/LA tho.

i'm glad to hear that pop is ripping jefferson. i've always had the impression that he's been coddling him.

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Originally Posted by Dro210

Not without another defensive presence in the post.... all that would do is make us a good team again, 2nd round capabilities. Wouldn't beat a Denver/LA tho.

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Yeah this is exactly what i'm thinking.

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“We haven’t developed a trust, a communication, a camaraderie as far as executing on the court,” Popovich said. “Which is strange for us. We’ve never had this situation.

“…For some reason, I’m not getting through to this group.”

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This what he said. Pop is still Pop, but for some reason like he says, he is not getting through to this group.

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Originally Posted by Spursfanfromafar

League sources say the Spurs have raised his name in trades talks, but found out quickly there’s no market for him and his contract.

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Shocking.

Looks like it will be a year wasted for Tim Duncan. I don't blame the Spurs FO one bit though. Who knew Jefferson couldn't handle being the 4th option in a structured offense? Who knew he wouldn't give effort on defense? Who knew his confidence would be shot halfway through the season?

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Originally Posted by Spursfanfromafar

Jefferson is smart and mature,

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_yl...yhoo&type=lgns

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Stopped here.

Jefferson would not play a minute in any relevant game of any major Euroleague team.

Period.

No Messina, Scariolo, Ivanovic, Obradovic, or Ghershon would give him other than garbage time minutes.

He played 33' last night.

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Originally Posted by Spursfanfromafar

Jefferson isn’t turning into a final piece to chase the Lakers, but a crippling, contractual albatross.

One mistake compounds the next, and Jefferson looks burdened, lost and alone. Scouts say “his confidence looks shot,” and that “he isn’t shooting the ball, as much as guiding it.” Jefferson knows his lapses on defense are far more glaring when he can’t score.

“When I’m shooting the ball like this, it makes it hard everyone to get their job done,” he said. “I’m not putting all the blame on me, but you have to look at yourself first.”

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This is the problem-Dick as well as people on here keep saying-shooting, shooting, shooting. Shooting is such a scape goat. Players have slumps and bad shooting games, the huge glaring problem is Dicks attitude. He mopes around the court, he doesn't move his feet, he has no energy or drive, he's like a fucking statue. If he would just become more aggressive, maybe knock a guy on the ground, talk some shit, get loud and bring some presence to the court then his shooting would come around. But instead he plays with his thumb up his ass like a big baby...until pop or someone can light a fire under his ass and get some fucking heart in this guy idc if he makes a few shots more a night-he still will be worthless

I'd rather the Spurs sit on his fat contract and see what they can work with to try to improve than overreacting. I dread another Jackie Butler scenario. We should not trade Splitter. While he might not be a shoe in for the defensive big role we need, he's our best and cheapest shot.Depending on Manu's extension we might be left with only 1 swingman in the summer and no more than the MLE and LLE to work with.

Injury exemption, Injury exemption, Injury exemption... :hungry:

It's the best we can wish for.

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Originally Posted by dastrey

Shocking.

Looks like it will be a year wasted for Tim Duncan. I don't blame the Spurs FO one bit though. Who knew Jefferson couldn't handle being the 4th option in a structured offense? Who knew he wouldn't give effort on defense? Who knew his confidence would be shot halfway through the season?

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If you watched him play for the Bucks, your last two questions could have been answered very quickly.

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Originally Posted by holcs50

This is the problem-Dick as well as people on here keep saying-shooting, shooting, shooting. Shooting is such a scape goat. Players have slumps and bad shooting games, the huge glaring problem is Dicks attitude. He mopes around the court, he doesn't move his feet, he has no energy or drive, he's like a fucking statue. If he would just become more aggressive, maybe knock a guy on the ground, talk some shit, get loud and bring some presence to the court then his shooting would come around. But instead he plays with his thumb up his ass like a big baby...until pop or someone can light a fire under his ass and get some fucking heart in this guy idc if he makes a few shots more a night-he still will be worthless

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Exactly. His shooting percentages (save free throws, and more significantly free throws ATTEMPTED) actually aren't so far off of what we would have expected. It's the absolute lack of energy and hustle in every other facet of the game.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMa...radeId=yf8omor

He's providing Eddy Curry numbers, i.e. empty box scores in all but points.

troubling article, looks like the team has tuned him out.

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Originally Posted by Spursfanfromafar

LOS ANGELES –
Yes, Gregg Popovich is still screaming at Jefferson, still trying to will something out of him. For how much longer, who knows? For now, the Spurs and Jefferson are stuck with each other. They’ve got to make this work, or perhaps Richard Jefferson turns out to be the last breath of San Antonio’s dynasty.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_yl...yhoo&type=lgns

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Incorrect. The last breath came with 0:00 on the clock, 4th quarter Game 5 of the 2008 WCF.

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Originally Posted by Spursfanfromafar

LOS ANGELES –

The Bucks wanted Jefferson out of there so badly, they took nothing but expiring contracts and washed-up vets. This wasn’t cost-cutting, as much as cutting their losses. Bucks coach Scott Skiles had little use for Jefferson, found him to be a shell of his old self and was glad to move him. San Antonio didn’t need Jefferson to be a star, but they did need him to be a competent complement to their championship core.

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Wow, if that's true the joke was on SA all along.

The problem with the Spurs is that they are trying to get their moneys worth from RJ by playing him 30+ minutes. But if he is hurting the team more than helping them with his 2-11 shooting and making one out of every two free throws, sit his ass down. I mean Finley can give you that everynight and you don't have to pay him 14 million.

If the Spurs were ever even close to acquiring Vince Carter last season and decided not to, they are paying for it with Jefferson.

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Originally Posted by Chillen

If the Spurs were ever even close to acquiring Vince Carter last season and decided not to, they are paying for it with Jefferson.

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Carter isn't much better, has a bloated contract too and would have cost us Hill at least. Pass.

Pop needs to find a mirror and start screaming to himself too... Sure, Richard has blown donkey dick, but he's only part of the problem. Putting together shit lineups, sticking to useless and soft guys, complete disregard for defense... all those things are on Pop.
I can fault Richard when he's not giving us shit at SF. But when Odom is toying with him at PF, that's entirely on Pop.

"Not fitting in" is a bullshit excuse, you don't have to fit into a team to give effort on the boards or on Defense.

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League sources say the Spurs have raised his name in trades talks, but found out quickly there’s no market for him and his contract.

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Upon all other wishes for this team I hope this is not true and by some miracle he will be traded.

Come on Philadelphia....Jefferson at 15 mil for one season isn't as bad as Iguodala for 5 more years. And if from what I've read you're not looking to be in contention for a couple more years...Jefferson as a Sixer would help that cause.

PLEASE!!!

The article hinted at something really important; Jefferson has completely and totally shot the chemistry of the Spurs. For a team that has always relied on superior chemistry and execution to beat opponents (hence why they could win with arguable inferior talent at times) having an important cog so completely unhinge them is the root of a lot of their problems.

He doesn't know what to do on offense (and the Spurs have one of the most complicated offenses) and doesn't know where to be on defense (and the Spurs have a very system oriented defense)...and that, I think, is causing immense problems.

Manu and TP have alluded to it in other interviews, I believe. Essentially, some players just don't know where to be. Even Dice has said as much with regards to him...and other players.

The article hinted at something really important; Jefferson has completely and totally shot the chemistry of the Spurs. For a team that has always relied on superior chemistry and execution to beat opponents (hence why they could win with arguable inferior talent at times) having an important cog so completely unhinge them is the root of a lot of their problems.

He doesn't know what to do on offense (and the Spurs have one of the most complicated offenses) and doesn't know where to be on defense (and the Spurs have a very system oriented defense)...and that, I think, is causing immense problems.

Manu and TP have alluded to it in other interviews, I believe. Essentially, some players just don't know where to be. Even Dice has said as much with regards to him...and other players.

The only thing I can think is that Pop is getting pressure to make RJ fit. And benching 14+ million dollars is not good for his own job security.

The problem is RJ is a huge, sloppy pussy. As others have said, his game lives or dies by his shooting. If his shots don't go down, he mopes around, plays weak D, and looks like he doesn't care.

Very disappointing, RJ needs therapy or something. Anybody got Tony Robbins number? But that doesn't excuse the poor play from our other guys, unless it's chemistry related to RJ. I think Pop should reduce his minute to 15 or less and put MF on the IR, and bring in Hairston, because really what's the worse that can happen? At the very least, Hairston could get a jumpstart for next year, and the Spurs can evaluate what he has. Same goes for Bonner, just put him on IR and bring in Ian. Clearly we are on the road to no where right now and it's affecting the team.

It really seems the Spurs were doing better with Bonner and Finley were on the IR.

I don't understand all the RJ hate. The guy didn't demand to be traded here, his confidence is really low just by reading his quote. RJ is being made the scapegoat unjustifiably

RJ just doesn't fit the system. It's no knock on him, he would thrive in a more open court situation and fluid type offense, Spurs need a SF in the mode of Stephen Jackson or Kevin Durant. Jefferson's game is neither, not a bad thing but it just doesn't fit here and to top it off, most importantly, his defense is not what was expected. Can it be remedied before the end of the season, perhaps but not likely. The Spurs' problems are a bit more than Jefferson and it's become more evident even to all the, we are above .500 and a win is a win crowd. Hey, a loss is a loss but it means so much more when Kobe and the starting center NEVER played a minute in the game.

Hopefully the FO will continue to work the phone feverishly to find some team willing to take this guy off the Spurs hands - and give something substantial in return.

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Originally Posted by SenorSpur

Hopefully the FO will continue to work the phone feverishly to find some team willing to take this guy off the Spurs hands - and give something substantial in return.

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I hear you, but realistically......

Two words:

Pipe Dream. :depressed

I've been saying it for a month....RJ does not fit in....glad to see someone write about it...the truth hurts. And the part about not being able to trade him this year...blows.

There are some problems here that go beyond what Richard Jefferson is as a player. If they wanted a role player with intangibles they shouldn't have brought in a slashing 2nd or 3rd option player and then play him out of position for 3/4ths of the game. Then expect him to get 18 on 7 shots. He's not that guy.

Which touches on what the real problem is. He's not a 4. Not ever going to be a 4 and has proven to be ineffective in such a capacity. His inability to handle post players has caused his game to suffer at the other end of the court.

He's a 3 and he needs more touches if you want to reap the benefits of his talent.

You can't expect a guy to play a out of position for nearly his entire time on the court and then cry that he's not fitting in. I've seen Pop misuse guys before but this one takes the cake. You can't fit a square peg in a round hole. At least not this square peg.

He's been playing the 3 most of the time...Pop has let Jefferson have free reign with the ball & all he does is ...choke

RJ should just lead the scrubs when the real players---Duncan, Manu, TP, Blair, Hill, McDyess---are resting.

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Originally Posted by Big P

He's been playing the 3 most of the time...Pop has let Jefferson have free reign with the ball & all he does is ...choke

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So who played PF last night against Odom? Manu, RMJ or that other kicks ass defensive specialist Bogans?

Keep working the phones.

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Originally Posted by BacktoBasics

There are some problems here that go beyond what Richard Jefferson is as a player. If they wanted a role player with intangibles they shouldn't have brought in a slashing 2nd or 3rd option player and then play him out of position for 3/4ths of the game. Then expect him to get 18 on 7 shots. He's not that guy.

Which touches on what the real problem is. He's not a 4. Not ever going to be a 4 and has proven to be ineffective in such a capacity. His inability to handle post players has caused his game to suffer at the other end of the court.

He's a 3 and he needs more touches if you want to reap the benefits of his talent.

You can't expect a guy to play a out of position for nearly his entire time on the court and then cry that he's not fitting in. I've seen Pop misuse guys before but this one takes the cake. You can't fit a square peg in a round hole. At least not this square peg.

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I agree with you there. As much as I've soured on RJ, I do agree with that point. Again, this is Pop trying to force-feed players into a role they're clearly not meant for. See Mason at the pont.

All that said, this doesn't explain RJ's laziness on defense and his apparent fragile mental makeup that has affected all other areas of his game.

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Originally Posted by Article

No one has befuddled Popovich like Jefferson. The Spurs are dumbfounded about how to reach him, how to use him, how to get him to play fluid, mistake-free basketball. Jefferson missed nine of his 11 shots against the Lakers, wide-open jumpers that didn’t fall

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Herein lies the problem.

Richard Jefferson is not Michael Finley or even Brent Barry. He's not going to find anything near his comfort zone taking jumpshots. He needs looks at the basket early in a game and consistently, every single night, whether it's in one on one situations or through better recognition from his teammates to set him up in the half court sets.

This team didn't need another jumpshooter. It needed Richard Jefferson. Pop and Company have tried turning him into a glorified Michael Finley.

Nice article. It's strange to see that Yahoo has made more quality article on Sprus that the local newspaper.

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“I’m not putting all the blame on me, but you have to look at yourself first.”

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Props to RJ for saying it. :tu

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“I was in one situation for seven of eight years, and I’m the one who has to do most of the adjusting here,” Jefferson said. “Tony [Parker], Tim, Manu [Ginobili] are in their system. Keith Bogans(notes) comes here and he’s the defensive player that hits threes. [Antonio McDyess(notes)] picks and pops. I’m in a whole new system trying to find my way.

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I think part of the problem with RJ is there. He comes here as a good guy trying to fit in Spurs scheme while he has the level to be more than a role player who fit in a case. Right now, he is over-thinking the situation. IMO, he should do the same things he has done successfully for years in the NBA and the rest of the team will adjust.

Pop needs to try RJ coming off the bench. He needs to be surrounded by role players and Manu. His game isn't built to play with Tony and Duncan. And if it is built, they aren't conforming to it. MAnu is a quasi-Kidd play with his passing game and perfect for RJ. Instead of fitting him in with rotations when Manu comes off bench, why not have them both come off the bench together.
Bogans can play the Bowen role and sit in the corner on offense and just remain tough on defense when starting, that's all we need with the starting line up, a la old system. Our second unit is a brand new system and I think RJ could fit in with a bigger role.

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Originally Posted by temujin

Stopped here.

Jefferson would not play a minute in any relevant game of any major Euroleague team.

Period.

No Messina, Scariolo, Ivanovic, Obradovic, or Ghershon would give him other than garbage time minutes.

He played 33' last night.

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Give me a break. Jefferson would average 25 a game in Euroleague.

I look at Dice and Boggans as bigger failures personally. RJ has been asked to be something that he is not. He has had bad games and looks lost but that could be corrected if Pop says from here on out you are the three and nothing else. Then he could start taking the ball to the hoop and doing what he does well.

Pop is the one who opts to bring Bonner of the bench first, who has cut blairs playing time in half, who puts KB and Finley in the closing minutes of the game when neither can play defense or hit a jump shot.

Pop should have pushed the youth movement two months ago with Ian and Harriston, at least we would have people that could physically run with their opponents. Maybe they foul out or get burned but at that is better than watching layup drills by bench players.

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Originally Posted by elbamba

Give me a break. Jefferson would average 25 a game in Euroleague.

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You are kidding.

You actually play defense in Euroleague and every game is crucial from now on.
25-30' is for Kleiza and Childress and other serious basketball palyers.

Haislip is playing 11' putting up the same numbers as in SA and his team might soon be eliminated.

Jefferson officially sucks now. And, we're stuck with him.:depressed

The guy can't hit the side of a barn. He needs some motivational speaker to motivate his ass on a daily and nightly basis. He's killing us with his contract and shitty play.

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Originally Posted by Spursmania

JThe guy can't hit the side of a barn. He needs some motivational speaker to motivate his ass on a daily and nightly basis. He's killing us with his contract and shitty play.

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We should trade for Luke Walton? :lol

bench his ass. enough is enough.

So Pop + Bufford fucked up. Let Holt take it out of their paychecks. But it's time to move on without RJ.

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Originally Posted by BacktoBasics

So who played PF last night against Odom? Manu, RMJ or that other kicks ass defensive specialist Bogans?

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So did playing pf last night for bit cause jefferson to miss 9 of his 11 shots?

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Originally Posted by Muser

"Not fitting in" is a bullshit excuse, you don't have to fit into a team to give effort on the boards or on Defense.

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Agreed! Its Not about Fitting In, Its about Showing Effort..... And RJ Has Yet To Show Consistent Effort.

Wojnarowski wrote a hellava piece, Express News never comes close to that.

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Originally Posted by Big P

So did playing pf last night for bit cause jefferson to miss 9 of his 11 shots?

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No it didn't. Do you approve of Pop turning a slasher/finisher with a decent shot into a full time spot up jumpshooter?

“…For some reason, I’m not getting through to this group.”
Perhaps maybe you have lost the respect and trust of your team Pop? Maybe instead of blamming the players for not trusting each out there and gelling you should blame yourself for losing their trust? Get a clue Pop.

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Originally Posted by Chomag

“…For some reason, I’m not getting through to this group.”
Perhaps maybe you have lost the respect and trust of your team Pop? Maybe instead of blamming the players for not trusting each out there and gelling you should blame yourself for losing their trust? Get a clue Pop.

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I agree.... I dont think The Players Have that same Respect For him Like they used to....

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Originally Posted by Bukefal

This what he said. Pop is still Pop, but for some reason like he says, he is not getting through to this group.

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Yeah, it's not only Jefferson. Mason is in the dog house. Bogans gets promoted and then demoted. Last night Pop was yelling at Tim and Tim looked like he was tuning him out. The Spurs are not responding.

The Spurs have seemingly stopped listening to Pop. I'm willing to bet the entire team thinks small ball is bullshit. You saw Tim not really paying attention to Pop when he was yelling at him. Pop has lost his team.

pop tries to make rj work in the system but hes not comfortable/capable of playing power fucking forward as simple as that.

Not defending RJ here, but Pop is the one calling all the shots...and he has lost it.
How many different lineups? How many times do players get pulled AFTER hitting a couple of shots in a row? How many chances has Ian really had? Hairston?
Small ball!...stagnant play calling, throwing players under the bus, betraying Bruce, Finley over Barry, Mason,----Finley over anybody, Bonner on the court at any time...etc,

It goes on and on...I really appreciate what Pop did in the PAST---but this is a fast sinking ship...and Pop getting angrier and throwing more players under the bus while continuing with ridiculous lineups is disheartening for everyone...
Pop needs to be the better man, at least to save face---and REMOVE himself---promote himself to the fr ofc...

Avery could be a 1 to 2 year band aid---because he also wears on players...but at least this 1 or 2 year break could rejuvenate Pop again...or not.

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Originally Posted by bigdog

The Spurs have seemingly stopped listening to Pop. I'm willing to bet the entire team thinks small ball is bullshit. You saw Tim not really paying attention to Pop when he was yelling at him. Pop has lost his team.

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Yeah but isn't that just Tim being Tim? He always looks disinterested ya know?

Okay so make the move for Salmons and Thomas, sit RJ and can the small ball. Trade RJ next year when his expiring contract has value. No Brainer here. But what will Pop do? Continue to play a confidence shot player out of position and expect him to come around. There is no more season until Pop drops the small ball love. Then maybe RJ could build some confidence playing his natural position and without the pressure of being the guy that's here to beat the Lakers.

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Originally Posted by z0sa

No it didn't. Do you approve of Pop turning a slasher/finisher with a decent shot into a full time spot up jumpshooter?

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When did Pop tell jefferson to stop driving to the basket? when did he tell him to quit dunking the ball? When did he tell him to be less aggressive going to the basket trying to draw fouls? Sorry, but all the "its Pops fault" crap is rediculous.

Pop still refuses to take any of the blame. I'm sure it's hard to "get to" any group when you're doing a joke of a coaching job.

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Originally Posted by TheSpursFNRule

Yeah but isn't that just Tim being Tim? He always looks disinterested ya know?

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Yes, that's just his manner. This is Tim whenever Pop has yelled at him throughout his career. :rolleyes

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Originally Posted by Big P

Sorry, but all the "its Pops fault" crap is rediculous.

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It's not Pop's fault that RJ missed 9 for 11 shots, including several wide open ones. Pop IS underutilizing RJ though.

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Originally Posted by z0sa

It's not Pop's fault that RJ missed 9 for 11 shots, including several wide open ones. Pop IS underutilizing RJ though.

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So he needs more than 11 shots?

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Originally Posted by Big P

So he needs more than 11 shots?

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He needs a lot less jump shots more like..

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Originally Posted by Big P

So he needs more than 11 shots?

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I think he'd benefit from a steady 14-16 shots and he needs to be used more in the isolation. He's not Dale Ellis for Christ sake. This coming off of picks for jumpers doesn't do any justice if he's not already in the offensive flow of the game.

I completely agree that Pop isn't using RJ how he should be, but RJ also needs to hit some of the open jumpers he gets. He's a decent enough shooter to be able to hit them. He just hasn't done it much this year.

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Originally Posted by bigdog

I completely agree that Pop isn't using RJ how he should be, but RJ also needs to hit some of the open jumpers he gets. He's a decent enough shooter to be able to hit them. He just hasn't done it much this year.

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I agree.
Pop should use jefferson to impress opponents with some smashing dunks.
In the warmups.

If trade isnt possible I suggest bench Dick for whole his contract. Like T-Mac. I find it like a solution, opportunity to raise an anchor, make team-chemistry up!

I've always thought that K. Bryant had the biggest ego in the NBA. Now I know that I'm wrong. Gregg Popovich has the biggest ego.

Pop literally said upon acquiring RJ that he wanted him to become the defensive presence he was as a young player. In other words, he wanted him to become something he's not.

Popovich has tried to make RJ become Bruce Bowen. Well, he's not. And 99% of the league would say that RJ is a better player than Bruce Bowen. However, Popovich hasn't allowed RJ to be RJ, and consequently the Spurs have suffered greatly.

It is the coach's responsibility to get the most out his players every night. I think it's abundantly clear that "this group" is the most underachieving team in the NBA this year. In fact, the team Popovich himself assembled is the team he refers to as "this group," as if he had nothing to do with it.

Popovich isn't taking responsibility for these failures - he is merely pointing fingers and throwing players under the bus.

If I'm a guy like Manu, why would I want to re-sign for even more years under this guy? It is increasingly obvious that any success Popovich has had as a coach is directly attributable to Tim Duncan, and also to David Robinson, Manu Ginobili, and Tony Parker.

One thing we've never seen is our team not playing hard. We've always been a bit inconsistent, even in championship years, sometimes coming out flat in the first quarter before turning it on. But this year, there is confusion, waywardness, and a consistent lack of care, which has led to unprecedented turnovers and prolonged defensive lapses.

The Spurs' $79 million payroll is healthy right now. The truth is, it's all on Popovich.

I know RJ is the most popular whipping boy, but the team as a whole (coach included) has just flat out sucked. Other than the big 3, everyone is relatively new and just haven't developed any sort of trust out there. And let's not excuse Pop from this discussion, he's put out some funky small ball lineups and substitutions that can't possibly be successful for long stretches of the game.

I'd say this is THE worst Spur team heading into the All-Star break in the Duncan era.

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Originally Posted by Spursfanfromafar

And already, San Antonio coach Gregg Popovich has so little patience left for Jefferson. Already, he’s wondering how he’ll ever make him a Spur.

“They say that when they stop yelling at you, that’s when you have to be worried,” Jefferson said late Monday. “Well, he hasn’t stopped yelling at me yet.”

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Pop: KEEP SCREAMING!!

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Originally Posted by temujin

I agree.
Pop should use jefferson to impress opponents with some smashing dunks.
In the warmups.

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Or Pop can ask him to guard the gatorade. Oh wait... that might be asking to much D from Jefferson.:downspin:

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Originally Posted by Big P

So he needs more than 11 shots?

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He needs to stop being such a fucking vagina on defense, he needs to hustle for rebounds, and he needs to run the floor when he doesn't have the ball. That said, he also needs to NOT BE THE FUCKING POWER FORWARD, which is firmly on Pop.

Well, if there's no market for him and his contract, that can only mean one thing ...

Time to leave him at the tarmac; his mere presence is detrimental to this team and my health. (How could someone who gets paid to do this for a living ever have thought RJ could thrive in this role?)

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Originally Posted by Chomag

Or Pop can ask him to guard the gatorade. Oh wait... that might be asking to much D from Jefferson.:downspin:

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that's right.
A small kid might want a sip and Jefferson would back down.

Great article. Wojnarowski and Ludden are the two best NBA writers nowadays.

I really can't blame the front office for the RJ trade blowing up in their face. On paper, it looked like a very good trade. Even just looking at RJ's stats today, it doesn't look like he's playing too horribly. Where RJ is really, really struggling is intangibles. Who could have predicted that a guy who made his career by running hard on the break would turn into a guy who doesn't run at all? Who could have predicted he would be a worse rebounder than Bruce Bowen? Who could have predicted his defense would get worse and worse as the season progressed?

The FO knew there was risk involved. In the NBA, you never know how a player will fit until they are put into a situation. This is a prime example. On paper, you'd think at the worst RJ would be willing to give effort on defense, hustle for rebounds, run the court and overall just play an energetic game. Instead, he's scared stiff. To me it looks like RJ is trying to hard and he's just overloaded with information. (Otherwise, the only other explanation is RJ doesn't care and is in turn just loafing. I don't think that is the case but it can't be ruled out.)

In the offseason, NBA general managers loved the Spurs trading for RJ and laughed at Memphis trading for Zach Randolph. Now, RJ is a disaster and Randolph is an All-Star. It's a funny world . . .

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Originally Posted by temujin

that's right.
A small kid might want a sip and Jefferson would back down.

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the full story: Jefferson backing away and pointing at him to get someone else to guard him.

Then after the sip is taken, Jefferson will kind of raise his arms in a "huh?" fashion and swivel his head around, asking "Hey! Whose man was that?"

Seeing how the Bucks were now the 2nd team RJ has played for willing to trade him for nothing should have been a bad sign. Looks like the Spurs will have to eat his contract this season but at least they will have a $15mil expiring contract to shop around in the offseason and I would be shocked if we can't move him.

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Originally Posted by timvp

Now, RJ is a disaster and Randolph is an All-Star. It's a funny world . . .

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Funny? You think this is funny? Does this amuse you?

this era is gonna end bitter. It's not only RJ. TP should have sat out of the NT.

But Pop is the one that needs to get over himself. His crap rotations and small ball really fucked up the chemistry. It all starts with him.

The first mistake he made was on opening night by starting this lineup:

Parker - Finley - RJ - Duncan - Bonner

I can understand starting Bonner since he's the only other big that knew the system, but Finley. RMJ should have had that starting spot. And he's been a different player since.

Then Pop put out other shit lineups like starting Ratliff, benching Duncan, benching RJ, Taking McDyess/Blair/Bogans in and out of the starting lineup. Pop never made up his mind for who know's what reason. Now he's using his players as a scapegoat and they've gone Flip Saunders on him.

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Originally Posted by timvp

Great article. Wojnarowski and Ludden are the two best NBA writers nowadays.

I really can't blame the front office for the RJ trade blowing up in their face. On paper, it looked like a very good trade. Even just looking at RJ's stats today, it doesn't look like he's playing too horribly. Where RJ is really, really struggling is intangibles. Who could have predicted that a guy who made his career by running hard on the break would turn into a guy who doesn't run at all? Who could have predicted he would be a worse rebounder than Bruce Bowen? Who could have predicted his defense would get worse and worse as the season progressed?

The FO knew there was risk involved. In the NBA, you never know how a player will fit until they are put into a situation. This is a prime example. On paper, you'd think at the worst RJ would be willing to give effort on defense, hustle for rebounds, run the court and overall just play an energetic game. Instead, he's scared stiff. To me it looks like RJ is trying to hard and he's just overloaded with information. (Otherwise, the only other explanation is RJ doesn't care and is in turn just loafing. I don't think that is the case but it can't be ruled out.)

In the offseason, NBA general managers loved the Spurs trading for RJ and laughed at Memphis trading for Zach Randolph. Now, RJ is a disaster and Randolph is an All-Star. It's a funny world . . .

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IIRC, Pop said that his experience with RJ at the Olympics was real positive. He saw a player who had a good attitude, was a team player, hard worker, athletic, and talented. They saw RJ as a player who was at his best running the floor, making plays in transition. Defensively, I guess they were counting that RJ had the ability and was willing to play defense.

Jefferson was a much different player at the time though..

Injuries took away his lateral quickness and explosiveness..this isn't the same guy that he was in his Finals years in NJ..

RJ has been saying the right things all year. You can see flashes of how he can help. When he blocks a shot or gets physical, or when he goes to the rim hard and posterizes someone.

Problem is that is not the norm, it is the exception. He has to stop talking and start doing.

he needs to pull his head outta his ass get over himself fck what people say and just play basketball

Doug Collins said a lot of stuff about Jefferson last night, and althugh he never said that Pop was frustrated with RJ he did mention how his talks with Pop have dealt with the Spurs failure to come together, to create consistency and chemistry, and then he would cut into Jefferson. Maybe Pop let these guys know that the bell is tolling for RJ's tenure as a Spur. I thought Jefferson would come in and help us in a lot of ways, but so far this year he has failed to show any hustle other than a hilight play here and there and the last second shot against the Thunder which was more a product of Manu's hustle than Jefferson's clutchness.

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Originally Posted by BG_Spurs_Fan

Carter isn't much better, has a bloated contract too and would have cost us Hill at least. Pass.

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your a dumb ass. Carter is always going to be better then richard no ears jefferson. dudes a bum.

You guys realize right before our game vince carter went off for 48? just saying RJ said its different everywhere..not in orlando yesterday

^ too bad vc was absolutely terrible until last night.

People like to blame RJ, but I see very little trust or communication between any of the teammates- even ones who have been playing together for some time.

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Originally Posted by 5in10

^ too bad vc was absolutely terrible until last night.

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haha true but ill take 16 4 and 3 over 12 3 and 2....anyday

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Originally Posted by L.I.T

The article hinted at something really important; Jefferson has completely and totally shot the chemistry of the Spurs. For a team that has always relied on superior chemistry and execution to beat opponents (hence why they could win with arguable inferior talent at times) having an important cog so completely unhinge them is the root of a lot of their problems.

He doesn't know what to do on offense (and the Spurs have one of the most complicated offenses) and doesn't know where to be on defense (and the Spurs have a very system oriented defense)...and that, I think, is causing immense problems.

Manu and TP have alluded to it in other interviews, I believe. Essentially, some players just don't know where to be. Even Dice has said as much with regards to him...and other players.

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Getting Jefferson did make us worse this year, I thought he would help us out alot and we would score more but it has been the opposite and has made this team worse evne with more talent :depressed:depressed. I wish we never got him that or signed Maggette that one summer for around 5 million or so (FUKKIN Warriors did not need him), that would have stopped this from ever happening.


GOOD LORD please let him go, he is horrible.

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Originally Posted by timvp

Who could have predicted that a guy who made his career by running hard on the break would turn into a guy who doesn't run at all?

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In our system as a direct replacement of Michael Finley? I could have predicted that. My impression was that we were going to run plays for the guy and try to get him to be an integral part of the offense. We've only mildly attempted to do that the last couple of months.

What I couldn't have predicted is his complete lack of mental fortitude. That his effort and defense relied so heavily in getting involved in the offense.

I agree with you that it was a gamble that the Spurs needed to take. It definitely looked good on paper, and it was obvious we were aging and we needed more help.

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Originally Posted by timtonymanu

The first mistake he made was on opening night by starting this lineup:

Parker - Finley - RJ - Duncan - Bonner

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Wow, I completely erased that from my mind... embarrassing...

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Originally Posted by ElNono

In our system as a direct replacement of Michael Finley? I could have predicted that.

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Hill has had no problems running. Even Bogans runs more than RJ.

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Originally Posted by ElNono

My impression was that we were going to run plays for the guy and try to get him to be an integral part of the offense. We've only mildly attempted to do that the last couple of months.

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Outside of basic pick-and-rolls and TD postups, I don't think any player has had as many plays called for him as RJ.

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Originally Posted by ElNono

What I couldn't have predicted is his complete lack of mental fortitude. That his effort and defense relied so heavily in getting involved in the offense.

I agree with you that it was a gamble that the Spurs needed to take. It definitely looked good on paper, and it was obvious we were aging and we needed more help.

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Well said. RJ did the small things well in the Olympics when he was usually a fourth or fifth option. Even in college, he only averaged around 11 and 5 ... but didn't have a problem staying engaged and helping with hustle and energy.

For some reason, his intangibles have just disappeared. I know he's not quite the same player as he used to be but mental fortitude shouldn't be something that erodes so quickly.

3 != 4

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Originally Posted by timvp

Hill has had no problems running. Even Bogans runs more than RJ.

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Because with Hill we have a little better defense, and we did too early in the season with Bogans. You make stops, force turnovers, rebound, then you can run. On our set offense there's no room for RJ other than being a glorified spot up shooter.

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Originally Posted by timvp

Outside of basic pick-and-rolls and TD postups, I don't think any player has had as many plays called for him as RJ.

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I count three plays involving RJ we still run: The first one we saw a month into the season, the alley oop play from the side. The second one is the coming-off-the-screen for a jumpshot (very much like Finley). The third one we saw a couple of games ago, where he passes to Duncan on the block, then goes right under the rim where TD passes back to him. Early in the season we we used to try to post him up, but that went nowhere quick.

Other than that, he's supposed to get his shots as part of the offense. Honestly, when Tony and Tim are in there and it's a set offense, we're just pick-and-rolling everybody to death. I'm not necessarily complaining, but with that style of play, RJ does turn into a younger Michael Finley.

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Originally Posted by timvp

Hill has had no problems running. Even Bogans runs more than RJ.

Outside of basic pick-and-rolls and TD postups, I don't think any player has had as many plays called for him as RJ.

Well said. RJ did the small things well in the Olympics when he was usually a fourth or fifth option. Even in college, he only averaged around 11 and 5 ... but didn't have a problem staying engaged and helping with hustle and energy.

For some reason, his intangibles have just disappeared. I know he's not quite the same player as he used to be but mental fortitude shouldn't be something that erodes so quickly.

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Ya but we didnt bring RJ here to be a "role player". We brought him here becasue we needed offense, becasue Manu and Tim fell apart last year and we didnt know what to expect this year. Well, to me it looks like Jefferson is like the 4th option on the team. He may have taken a backseat due to his personality, but its Pops' job to give him confidence and tell him like it is. If you dont attack, you suck as a player.