Wojnarowski: Spurs’ patience with Jefferson running low

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Originally Posted by Big P

So he needs more than 11 shots?

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He needs to stop being such a fucking vagina on defense, he needs to hustle for rebounds, and he needs to run the floor when he doesn't have the ball. That said, he also needs to NOT BE THE FUCKING POWER FORWARD, which is firmly on Pop.

Well, if there's no market for him and his contract, that can only mean one thing ...

Time to leave him at the tarmac; his mere presence is detrimental to this team and my health. (How could someone who gets paid to do this for a living ever have thought RJ could thrive in this role?)

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Originally Posted by Chomag

Or Pop can ask him to guard the gatorade. Oh wait... that might be asking to much D from Jefferson.:downspin:

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that's right.
A small kid might want a sip and Jefferson would back down.

Great article. Wojnarowski and Ludden are the two best NBA writers nowadays.

I really can't blame the front office for the RJ trade blowing up in their face. On paper, it looked like a very good trade. Even just looking at RJ's stats today, it doesn't look like he's playing too horribly. Where RJ is really, really struggling is intangibles. Who could have predicted that a guy who made his career by running hard on the break would turn into a guy who doesn't run at all? Who could have predicted he would be a worse rebounder than Bruce Bowen? Who could have predicted his defense would get worse and worse as the season progressed?

The FO knew there was risk involved. In the NBA, you never know how a player will fit until they are put into a situation. This is a prime example. On paper, you'd think at the worst RJ would be willing to give effort on defense, hustle for rebounds, run the court and overall just play an energetic game. Instead, he's scared stiff. To me it looks like RJ is trying to hard and he's just overloaded with information. (Otherwise, the only other explanation is RJ doesn't care and is in turn just loafing. I don't think that is the case but it can't be ruled out.)

In the offseason, NBA general managers loved the Spurs trading for RJ and laughed at Memphis trading for Zach Randolph. Now, RJ is a disaster and Randolph is an All-Star. It's a funny world . . .

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Originally Posted by temujin

that's right.
A small kid might want a sip and Jefferson would back down.

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the full story: Jefferson backing away and pointing at him to get someone else to guard him.

Then after the sip is taken, Jefferson will kind of raise his arms in a "huh?" fashion and swivel his head around, asking "Hey! Whose man was that?"

Seeing how the Bucks were now the 2nd team RJ has played for willing to trade him for nothing should have been a bad sign. Looks like the Spurs will have to eat his contract this season but at least they will have a $15mil expiring contract to shop around in the offseason and I would be shocked if we can't move him.

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Originally Posted by timvp

Now, RJ is a disaster and Randolph is an All-Star. It's a funny world . . .

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Funny? You think this is funny? Does this amuse you?

this era is gonna end bitter. It's not only RJ. TP should have sat out of the NT.

But Pop is the one that needs to get over himself. His crap rotations and small ball really fucked up the chemistry. It all starts with him.

The first mistake he made was on opening night by starting this lineup:

Parker - Finley - RJ - Duncan - Bonner

I can understand starting Bonner since he's the only other big that knew the system, but Finley. RMJ should have had that starting spot. And he's been a different player since.

Then Pop put out other shit lineups like starting Ratliff, benching Duncan, benching RJ, Taking McDyess/Blair/Bogans in and out of the starting lineup. Pop never made up his mind for who know's what reason. Now he's using his players as a scapegoat and they've gone Flip Saunders on him.

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Originally Posted by timvp

Great article. Wojnarowski and Ludden are the two best NBA writers nowadays.

I really can't blame the front office for the RJ trade blowing up in their face. On paper, it looked like a very good trade. Even just looking at RJ's stats today, it doesn't look like he's playing too horribly. Where RJ is really, really struggling is intangibles. Who could have predicted that a guy who made his career by running hard on the break would turn into a guy who doesn't run at all? Who could have predicted he would be a worse rebounder than Bruce Bowen? Who could have predicted his defense would get worse and worse as the season progressed?

The FO knew there was risk involved. In the NBA, you never know how a player will fit until they are put into a situation. This is a prime example. On paper, you'd think at the worst RJ would be willing to give effort on defense, hustle for rebounds, run the court and overall just play an energetic game. Instead, he's scared stiff. To me it looks like RJ is trying to hard and he's just overloaded with information. (Otherwise, the only other explanation is RJ doesn't care and is in turn just loafing. I don't think that is the case but it can't be ruled out.)

In the offseason, NBA general managers loved the Spurs trading for RJ and laughed at Memphis trading for Zach Randolph. Now, RJ is a disaster and Randolph is an All-Star. It's a funny world . . .

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IIRC, Pop said that his experience with RJ at the Olympics was real positive. He saw a player who had a good attitude, was a team player, hard worker, athletic, and talented. They saw RJ as a player who was at his best running the floor, making plays in transition. Defensively, I guess they were counting that RJ had the ability and was willing to play defense.

Jefferson was a much different player at the time though..

Injuries took away his lateral quickness and explosiveness..this isn't the same guy that he was in his Finals years in NJ..

RJ has been saying the right things all year. You can see flashes of how he can help. When he blocks a shot or gets physical, or when he goes to the rim hard and posterizes someone.

Problem is that is not the norm, it is the exception. He has to stop talking and start doing.

he needs to pull his head outta his ass get over himself fck what people say and just play basketball

Doug Collins said a lot of stuff about Jefferson last night, and althugh he never said that Pop was frustrated with RJ he did mention how his talks with Pop have dealt with the Spurs failure to come together, to create consistency and chemistry, and then he would cut into Jefferson. Maybe Pop let these guys know that the bell is tolling for RJ's tenure as a Spur. I thought Jefferson would come in and help us in a lot of ways, but so far this year he has failed to show any hustle other than a hilight play here and there and the last second shot against the Thunder which was more a product of Manu's hustle than Jefferson's clutchness.

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Originally Posted by BG_Spurs_Fan

Carter isn't much better, has a bloated contract too and would have cost us Hill at least. Pass.

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your a dumb ass. Carter is always going to be better then richard no ears jefferson. dudes a bum.

You guys realize right before our game vince carter went off for 48? just saying RJ said its different everywhere..not in orlando yesterday

^ too bad vc was absolutely terrible until last night.

People like to blame RJ, but I see very little trust or communication between any of the teammates- even ones who have been playing together for some time.

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Originally Posted by 5in10

^ too bad vc was absolutely terrible until last night.

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haha true but ill take 16 4 and 3 over 12 3 and 2....anyday

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Originally Posted by L.I.T

The article hinted at something really important; Jefferson has completely and totally shot the chemistry of the Spurs. For a team that has always relied on superior chemistry and execution to beat opponents (hence why they could win with arguable inferior talent at times) having an important cog so completely unhinge them is the root of a lot of their problems.

He doesn't know what to do on offense (and the Spurs have one of the most complicated offenses) and doesn't know where to be on defense (and the Spurs have a very system oriented defense)...and that, I think, is causing immense problems.

Manu and TP have alluded to it in other interviews, I believe. Essentially, some players just don't know where to be. Even Dice has said as much with regards to him...and other players.

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Getting Jefferson did make us worse this year, I thought he would help us out alot and we would score more but it has been the opposite and has made this team worse evne with more talent :depressed:depressed. I wish we never got him that or signed Maggette that one summer for around 5 million or so (FUKKIN Warriors did not need him), that would have stopped this from ever happening.


GOOD LORD please let him go, he is horrible.

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Originally Posted by timvp

Who could have predicted that a guy who made his career by running hard on the break would turn into a guy who doesn't run at all?

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In our system as a direct replacement of Michael Finley? I could have predicted that. My impression was that we were going to run plays for the guy and try to get him to be an integral part of the offense. We've only mildly attempted to do that the last couple of months.

What I couldn't have predicted is his complete lack of mental fortitude. That his effort and defense relied so heavily in getting involved in the offense.

I agree with you that it was a gamble that the Spurs needed to take. It definitely looked good on paper, and it was obvious we were aging and we needed more help.

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Originally Posted by timtonymanu

The first mistake he made was on opening night by starting this lineup:

Parker - Finley - RJ - Duncan - Bonner

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Wow, I completely erased that from my mind... embarrassing...

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Originally Posted by ElNono

In our system as a direct replacement of Michael Finley? I could have predicted that.

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Hill has had no problems running. Even Bogans runs more than RJ.

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Originally Posted by ElNono

My impression was that we were going to run plays for the guy and try to get him to be an integral part of the offense. We've only mildly attempted to do that the last couple of months.

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Outside of basic pick-and-rolls and TD postups, I don't think any player has had as many plays called for him as RJ.

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Originally Posted by ElNono

What I couldn't have predicted is his complete lack of mental fortitude. That his effort and defense relied so heavily in getting involved in the offense.

I agree with you that it was a gamble that the Spurs needed to take. It definitely looked good on paper, and it was obvious we were aging and we needed more help.

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Well said. RJ did the small things well in the Olympics when he was usually a fourth or fifth option. Even in college, he only averaged around 11 and 5 ... but didn't have a problem staying engaged and helping with hustle and energy.

For some reason, his intangibles have just disappeared. I know he's not quite the same player as he used to be but mental fortitude shouldn't be something that erodes so quickly.

3 != 4

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Originally Posted by timvp

Hill has had no problems running. Even Bogans runs more than RJ.

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Because with Hill we have a little better defense, and we did too early in the season with Bogans. You make stops, force turnovers, rebound, then you can run. On our set offense there's no room for RJ other than being a glorified spot up shooter.

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Originally Posted by timvp

Outside of basic pick-and-rolls and TD postups, I don't think any player has had as many plays called for him as RJ.

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I count three plays involving RJ we still run: The first one we saw a month into the season, the alley oop play from the side. The second one is the coming-off-the-screen for a jumpshot (very much like Finley). The third one we saw a couple of games ago, where he passes to Duncan on the block, then goes right under the rim where TD passes back to him. Early in the season we we used to try to post him up, but that went nowhere quick.

Other than that, he's supposed to get his shots as part of the offense. Honestly, when Tony and Tim are in there and it's a set offense, we're just pick-and-rolling everybody to death. I'm not necessarily complaining, but with that style of play, RJ does turn into a younger Michael Finley.

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Originally Posted by timvp

Hill has had no problems running. Even Bogans runs more than RJ.

Outside of basic pick-and-rolls and TD postups, I don't think any player has had as many plays called for him as RJ.

Well said. RJ did the small things well in the Olympics when he was usually a fourth or fifth option. Even in college, he only averaged around 11 and 5 ... but didn't have a problem staying engaged and helping with hustle and energy.

For some reason, his intangibles have just disappeared. I know he's not quite the same player as he used to be but mental fortitude shouldn't be something that erodes so quickly.

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Ya but we didnt bring RJ here to be a "role player". We brought him here becasue we needed offense, becasue Manu and Tim fell apart last year and we didnt know what to expect this year. Well, to me it looks like Jefferson is like the 4th option on the team. He may have taken a backseat due to his personality, but its Pops' job to give him confidence and tell him like it is. If you dont attack, you suck as a player.