Dems are upset by threats on voicemails. My staff got shot at!

House GOP leader says bullet fired into office after health care vote.

Washington (CNN) -- Rep. Eric Cantor, the No. 2 Republican in the House of Representatives, said Thursday that a bullet had been fired through a window at his campaign office in Richmond, Virginia.

A Richmond police spokeswoman confirmed to CNN that a bullet was fired at the congressman's office. "We are investigating the circumstance surrounding it," spokeswoman Karla Peters said.

Cantor also said that he had received threatening messages but that he would not publicly release the messages out of concern that doing so would only incite further violence.

He also accused Democratic National Committee Chairman Tim Kaine and Rep. Chris Van Hollen of Maryland -- a member of the Democratic House leadership -- of "fanning the flames" of violence by using threats that have been made against Democratic members "as political weapons."

"Enough is enough," Cantor said. "It has to stop."



Democratic National Committee spokesman Brad Woodhouse hit back against Cantor's claims.

"We disagree with the charge made by Rep. Cantor today that Democrats are using acts of violence for political gain," he said. "Let's be clear: Calling on Republican leaders who have contributed in part to this anger by wildly mischaracterizing the substance and motives of health reform to condemn these acts is entirely appropriate."

More than 10 Democrats have reported trouble since the weekend health care vote, House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer, D-Maryland, told reporters Wednesday.

Windows have been smashed at Democratic offices in at least three states, and federal agents are investigating whether a cut gas line at the home of a Virginia congressman's brother was related to the lawmaker's yes vote.

Democratic congressional leaders have demanded Republicans join them in condemning a spate of threats and vandalism that has followed Sunday's vote on a sweeping overhaul of the U.S. health care system.

The FBI is now looking into the threats, and at least 10 House Democrats have been given extra security.

The threats are especially vicious for Michigan's Bart Stupak, who switched his vote to seal the deal for the bill. He has released a threatening voice mail that he received.

"Stupak, you are a lowlife, baby-murdering scumbag, pile of steaming crap. You're a cowardly punk, Stupak, that's what you are. You and your family are scum," an unidentified caller said. "That's what you are, Stupak. You are a piece of crap."

"Go to hell, you piece of [expletive deleted]" another called said.

Read more about Stupak's political future

In Virginia, Albemarle County fire marshals and the FBI are looking into the slashing of a propane gas line outside the home of Rep. Tom Perriello's brother, the congressman's office said.

A Perriello aide told CNN that the line to a propane tank on the brother's gas grill had been severed after the brother's home address was posted online by a Tea Party activist. Lee Catlin, a spokesman for the fire marshal's office, said the incident "did not involve an immediate threat to occupants of the residence" but would disclose no details.

The county joined the investigation late Tuesday after a request from the FBI, Caitlin said. "Officials are taking the incident very seriously and conducting a vigorous investigation," he said.

On Sunday, Democratic Rep. Russ Carnahan of Missouri had a coffin placed on his lawn, said his spokeswoman, Sarah Howard. She said Tea Party protesters at his office in St. Louis had a coffin with them and later brought it to his house. The coffin was later removed, she said.

House Democratic Majority Whip James Clyburn, who is African-American, said he has received a fax in his office with a picture of a noose drawn on it and had threatening telephone calls at his home.

iReport: 'A very dangerous time for Obama,' Dem leaders

"We're giving aid and comfort to these people, and this stuff gets ratcheted up," Clyburn told CNN. "We in this Congress have got to come together in a bipartisan way and tamp this foolishness down. It doesn't make sense. That's not what a democracy is all about."

Rep. Louise Slaughter, D-New York, said a brick was thrown through a window at her Niagara Falls district office, and a message that referred to "snipers" was left at one of her campaign offices. In a written statement, she said GOP leaders have been "fanning the flames with coded rhetoric."

Slaughter said federal agents and local authorities were investigating the threat and vandalism at her offices.

The top Republican in the House, Minority Leader John Boehner, told reporters that he has urged opponents to demonstrate legally.

"I've made statements that I understand people are angry, but violence and threats are inappropriate and irresponsible," the Ohio congressman said. "If people are angry, they ought to register to vote and get involved in a campaign."

But Boehner, who compared the legislation's passage to "Armageddon," said Democrats had not complained to him that Republicans haven't been quick enough to condemn the threats and vandalism.

Democratic officials and liberal Web sites are also upset that Sarah Palin used an image of crosshairs in a Facebook post this week listing 20 vulnerable Democrats who voted for the legislation. She plans to target them this election year with money from her political action committee.

Palin's team is fighting claims that she is encouraging threats of violence. One House member mentioned her Facebook posting during a Wednesday meeting on safety concerns, a Democratic source told CNN's Dana Bash. Mention of the map brought audible groans to the room, the source said.

An adviser to Palin responded by pointing to several instances in which the former Alaska governor has urged supporters to focus their energies on civil debate and action at the ballot box, not extremist activities.

Read more about Palin's targeting effort

The white-hot rhetoric that dominated the last several months of debate on the historic health care bill culminated in unruly protests by the Tea Party movement at the Capitol over the weekend.

Three African-American House Democrats, including civil rights leader Rep. John Lewis of Georgia, reported protesters shouted racial slurs at them and spat at one of them, while Rep. Barney Frank, D-Massachusetts, an openly gay House member, had anti-gay slurs yelled at him.

Republican House members encouraged protesters outside and inside the House gallery, some of whom carried messages like "Vote no or else" or "If Brown won't stop it, a Browning will" -- a reference to newly elected Massachusetts Sen. Scott Brown accompanied by a silhouette of a pistol.

Since the vote, an Alabama blogger has launched a "window war" against Democrats and has kept a tally of the recent incidents of damage.

And conservative talk show host Glenn Beck told his radio audience Monday that Democrats who supported the bill would be remembered as "an enemy of the republic" and "an enemy to the Constitution."

But he urged viewers of his Fox News television show Wednesday to avoid violence, because "radical" supporters of the Obama administration are counting on such attacks to discredit their opposition, he said.

"Not only is it completely nuts and wrong, it's exactly what they want," Beck said. He told viewers, "They are begging for it. You are being set up."

But in Kansas, Democrats in Wichita are seeking to raise money over a brick thrown through the window of the party headquarters.

"At first, we thought our office was just the object of a random act of bitter violence, but now we know that's not the case," the Sedgewick County Democratic Party's Web site said. "This attack was instigated, encouraged and directed by an ultra-right wing blogger and similar events occurred all over the country."

The Web site item asked for donations to "help us get back to work."

CNN's Deirdre Walsh, Dana Bash, Peter Hamby, Ed Hornick, Lesa Jansen and Tom Cohen contributed to this report.

Repugs are getting the violence from the extremism they have been inflaming for years, now they whine when it's turned against them, nothing but bullies who whine when they get push back.

it's like reconciliation is perfectly legit when Repugs do it, but traitorous when Dems do it back at them. fucking, lying bullying hypocrites.

To channel Wild Cobra, it was probably some right wing teabagger nut trying to make the left look bad who shot through Cantor's window.

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Originally Posted by boutons_deux

Repugs are getting the violence from the extremism they have been inflaming for years, now they whine when it's turned against them, nothing but bullies who whine when they get push back.

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he doesn't get that. all we've heard for the last year was that Obama is a socialist bent on destroying the country blah,bleh,blah.. even now talk radio is taking about getting these bastards out of office and that they want to take our country back...


who knows where these lunatics get these ideas??

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Originally Posted by boutons_deux

it's like reconciliation is perfectly legit when Repugs do it, but traitorous when Dems do it back at them. fucking, lying bullying hypocrites.

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Are you going to post another "poll"? :rolleyes

Physician, heal thyself.

It was probably a plant by the tea baggers...

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Originally Posted by jack sommerset

Democratic congressional leaders have demanded Republicans join them in condemning a spate of threats and vandalism that has followed Sunday's vote on a sweeping overhaul of the U.S. health care system.

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Why do I get the feeling this is like Kerry calling on Bush to condemn Swiftboats, but not wanting to join Bush in unilaterally condemning politcal attacks coming from PACs....

And of course, this bit: "We disagree with the charge made by Rep. Cantor today that Democrats are using acts of violence for political gain," he said. "Let's be clear: Calling on Republican leaders who have contributed in part to this anger by wildly mischaracterizing the substance and motives of health reform to condemn these acts is entirely appropriate."

Basically means in people's minds any Republican who does condemn the acts will have admitted to inciting them....

When Dems do it, the board repubs get pissed and Dems defend it. When Repubs do it, the board dems do it and the repubs defend it.

This forum is a wonderful example of our political system.

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Originally Posted by johnsmith

When Dems do it, the board repubs get pissed and Dems defend it. When Repubs do it, the board dems gt pissed and the repubs defend it.

This forum is a wonderful example of our political system.

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Also, this board has beaten me today, I have forgotten how to post correctly and edit.

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Originally Posted by fyatuk

And of course, this bit: "We disagree with the charge made by Rep. Cantor today that Democrats are using acts of violence for political gain," he said. "Let's be clear: Calling on Republican leaders who have contributed in part to this anger by wildly mischaracterizing the substance and motives of health reform to condemn these acts is entirely appropriate."

Basically means in people's minds any Republican who does condemn the acts will have admitted to inciting them....

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In a way; sort of. I can almost see that.

Still, fan the flames, bear the conflagration. Pathos of the arsonist.

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Wah!

I got burned!

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Repugs are playing the old Nixonian "plausible deniability" game.

By faking, YET AGAIN, their outrage, they are sounding plausibly against the results of the lying demagoguery.

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Originally Posted by George Gervin's Afro

It was probably a plant by the tea baggers...

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sad thing is you really believe that.

...

cantor is lying

the GOP will do anything to even the playing field.....they are really pathetic.

I will never even entertain the the thought of voting republican again.

I vote democratic or libertarian and that is that.

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Some Democrats charged Republican Sarah Palin with throwing gas on the flames. Palin tweeted her followers, saying: "Commonsense Conservatives & lovers of America: 'Don't Retreat, Instead - RELOAD!'"

Palin also used her Web site to target 20 House Democrats who voted yes on health care. There was a map with gunsights on the districts.

"When Sarah Palin uses gun analogies and gun imagery when she makes her political point, she may believe that she's engaging in metaphor. But there are too many people who have twisted minds who might think that she's being literal," said Weiner. "What might seem as an obvious metaphor for some people may seem like an invitation for someone else."

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Nice job Sarah!

appealing to the simpletons in the Tea Party

Cantor is an idiot...

Eric Cantor should be a rape counselor so he can tell all the women how it was their fault and they were asking for it....

Hey everyone, the repugs made this up, the violent tea baggers shot at that building to fool you all, the white men are the enemy and blame Bush! Everyone wants health care and it will make us money! Ignore the polls, town meetings, protest, marches and elections (damn hippies), AMERICA wants this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Feel free to repeal it when the Republicans get full control of Congress again.

I woke up this morning like any morning and I dare to say any morning the people of our planet woke up to and guess what?????? No star or planet hit our planet. This health care plan has to be right!!! Change we all can believe in ,unless you have a brain. God bless Rev Wright.

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Originally Posted by jack sommerset

I woke up this morning like any morning and I dare to say any morning the people of our planet woke up to and guess what?????? No star or planet hit our planet.

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So you're saying Boehner and Steele are full of shit.

OK.

So last year I was really pissed off that people called me a socialist, I even instructed my peeps to tell those peeps they were racist, they were calling me a ######, a freaken ###### but now I got health care passed, (fucking over america) I am prepared to tell you, I am a socialist! Biden said it best "Fuck the conservatives" I'll take it a bit further, fuck anyone that disagrees with me!

Shouldn't have lost all those elections.

I have to say, I am tired. I was suppose to go on another apology tour but I had to bribe many more dems to get this bullshit bill past. I need some sleep now. I cut a few corners, I told my wife the fat kids can live another day and to have her staff of a hundred to leave my ass alone. I called Russia and said "Whatever you want, it's cool" They sent it over and I signed it. I'm going to bed.

Got any more?

I think that's your best post ever, jack.

:toast

Way funnier than Barry O' Bama or the smilin' antichrist.

I liked the part about lettin the fat kids live another day. That was kinda funny.

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Originally Posted by johnsmith

When Dems do it, the board repubs get pissed and Dems defend it. When Repubs do it, the board dems do it and the repubs defend it.

This forum is a wonderful example of our political system.

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Its not really. If this forum were a representation of our political system then there would be no posts in it as our political system is one of apathy with a few nut jobs mixed in.

Police: Bullet That Hit Cantor Campaign Office Window Was Randomly Fired In Air A Long Way Off

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RICHMOND, Va. (AP) — Richmond police say the bullet that hit a window of Republican Virginia Congressman Eric Cantor's office had been randomly fired skyward.

Amid reports of threats and vandalism against Democrats who voted Sunday for sweeping health care reforms, Cantor said at a Washington news conference Thursday that a bullet was fired into his Richmond office.

In a news release, Richmond police said that the bullet had been fired into the air early Tuesday. It hit the front window of a building that houses Cantor's campaign office as it fell to back earth at a sharp angle.

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The Morning Call

Told ya so!

I don't support vigilantism...I do however support any secession movments, just like I did in 2004.

Sometimes...divorce is better. If all the political partisans are going to do is one up each othter and attempt to fuck the other royally...the country is going to go to shit.

There is nothing progressive or new about it.

Sometimes divorce is the best solution for an antagonistic relationship. Pretty much it's a total dehumanization game now and it's just a matter of time before blood begins spilling over it.

The way I look at it, the Democrats just landslided legilsation through that impacts every American in the country...if the Republicans do it in the future there is not a damn thing anyone can say about it, no matter how bad it might suck. And it probably will.

And I for one am glad the Republicans attempted to obstruct the health care bill,. I mean to me it's something they did right. All the rich people that want free health care, and all the poor people that wanted it should have gone and worked it out amongst themselves rather than dragging one else into it.

If it's such a great fuckng deal, it wouldn't need to be imposed and people would want to get in on it.

What this tells me is that the non-party loyalist is about to get fucked by the idiots that think it's a football game. I will take a pass on that. So...any states that want to secede I fully support doing so. And if it's got go to a war...so be it. Everyone will lose in that case as our home will become a shithole...but that's going to happen anyway with the direction political partisanship is going.

"worked it out amongst themselves"

Done! "Just Go To The Emergency Room (c)"

... way too late, after their diseases are much more advanced, perhaps incurably so, and MUCH more expensive to treat by the public health services MANDATED to refuse no one who can't pay.

"it's such a great fuckng deal'

it is for the people it's intended to, and will, help.

"it wouldn't need to be imposed"

It has to be since, the for-profit-as-primary-objective medical system sees no profit in poor people's diseases.

Just lose your job and pay for insurance at $14K/year for family of four, and pay for it with yout after-tax income. Then throw in a disease or disease history and see if you can find ANY insurance.

"states that want to secede I fully support doing so"

Spoken like a Super-Patriotic ... chickenshit bully who starts fights, and when there's push back, runs away.

"direction political partisanship is going."

You conservatives started this divisive, polarizing, extreme partisanship 30 years ago with St Ronnie getting the conservative shitball rolling, and now you don't like it. Brillliant, just fucking brilliant.

jackie you are such a dumba$$..nice thread..:lmao

Police analysis of the trajectory of self-proclaimed-victim Cantor's anti-semitic bullet showed that it was descending from being shot in the air, like a mortar.

Probably just some Virginia bubba doing some auto-erotic "Happiness is A Warm Gun".

Jack: don't forget how you ditched middle east diplomacy for dinner with the fam. Screw israel.

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Originally Posted by spursncowboys

Jack: don't forget how you ditched middle east diplomacy for dinner with the fam. Screw israel.

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Israel's Netanyahu downplays tensions with US

Israel denies that the new homes are being built illegally
Israel's PM Benjamin Netanyahu has moved to ease tensions with the US, describing the two countries' relations as those of "allies and friends".

Mr Netanyahu also dismissed reports one of his confidants called US President Barack Obama a "disaster" for Israel.

The US has criticised the building of Jewish homes in East Jerusalem, which prompted the Palestinians to pull out of US-brokered indirect peace talks.

The row has caused one of the worst crises in US-Israeli ties for decades.

In the wake of a controversial visit to the US, Mr Netanyahu said on Friday that his policy on East Jerusalem would not change, despite US pressure on Israel to announce a freeze on building Jewish homes there.

A best-selling Israeli newspaper then quoted an unidentified aide as saying: "You could say that Obama is the greatest disaster for Israel - a strategic disaster."

But the prime minister, speaking before he briefed the cabinet on his US trip, condemned these comments as "unacceptable".

"They do not come from anyone representing me. The relations between Israel and the United States are those of allies and friends, and are based on tradition spanning many years."

Re-occupy Gaza?

Tension has also been mounting in Gaza in recent days, with two Israeli soldiers and two Palestinian militants reportedly killed in the worst clashes for more than a year.

At the cabinet meeting, Mr Netanyahu stressed that Israel would provide a "firm and decisive" response to any attack from the Palestinian militant group Hamas.

Israel pulled out in 2009 after an offensive which left hundreds of people dead.

Israel insists that Jerusalem will remain its undivided capital.

Nearly half a million Jews live in more than 100 settlements built since Israel's 1967 occupation of the West Bank and East Jerusalem.

They are considered illegal under international law, although Israel disputes this.

The Middle East quartet - the US, EU, UN and Russia - has called for final status negotiations to reach a comprehensive peace deal within two years.

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both of you guys are dumba$$es...:lmao

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Originally Posted by boutons_deux

"worked it out amongst themselves"

Done! "Just Go To The Emergency Room (c)"

... way too late, after their diseases are much more advanced, perhaps incurably so, and MUCH more expensive to treat by the public health services MANDATED to refuse no one who can't pay.

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It they are incurable what is the justification for charging them?

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"it's such a great fuckng deal'

it is for the people it's intended to, and will, help.

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If it's being imposed it's not help, it's coercion. It's defacto slavery.

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"it wouldn't need to be imposed"

It has to be since, the for-profit-as-primary-objective medical system sees no profit in poor people's diseases.

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Or...everyone could stop paying insurance and see if healthcare becomes more affordable. It costs so much because Doctors and Insurance execs like to live in big houses(and so do Radiologists, Aneshtheisologists, Nurses, Insurance Salesmen, Secretaries etc.). I have no problem with them doing so...as long as they do it by getting what people are willing to pay, as long as it's not mandated by the goverment that I pay for it.

Excuse me, that any pay for it.

A mandate to pay for artificiially inflated prices is not my idea of cheaper health care. I am sorry.

That is fucking ignorant.

Especially since I know for a fact insurance companies would only insure healthy people if it were left up top them. The people who don't want this are the ones the insurance companies want, the people who want this are the ones the insurance companies don't want. The people that don't want this are people that are going to have to pay for it, the people do want it more or less won't. At least no moreso than they do now.

Totally unjust.


And it will be the same even if it becomes totally govermment operated. It'll be worse then, because the Government holds the insurance companies in check...who hold the Government in check when it becomes one?

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Just lose your job and pay for insurance at $14K/year for family of four, and pay for it with yout after-tax income. Then throw in a disease or disease history and see if you can find ANY insurance.

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I don't have any fucking health insurance, I haven't for any of my adult life outside of a handful of years when I was married. I am completely at odds with the HMO system, I don't use it for minor sickness...and if it's anything catastrophic, well I would be willing to pay for that, but that's not what this is. If I have to waive catastrophic care to not have this, give me the waiver to sign.

Pushing pills vaccinations etc...fuck them and their pills that 6 months later are off the market.

Same thing with this deal about the swineflu...I got the swineflu last year. Big fucking deal...it's a flu.

Stop paying the insurance companies and their bullshit medical system where everyone is getting a cut. Them taking a cut drives up the price.


And the entire logic is contradictory, you can't have it both ways boutons, on the one hand you can't be complaining about millions dying without insurance, and then turn right around and cry foul about being forced to pay for the uninsured and use that as a justification for everyone paying.

It's especially when you just instituted a policy that mandates you pay for the uniunsured...the very thing you were bitching about the first place. Or at least part of it.

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"states that want to secede I fully support doing so"

Spoken like a Super-Patriotic ... chickenshit bully who starts fights, and when there's push back, runs away.

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I am patriotic against external threats. My patriotism works differently in internal conflicts.

In internal conflics my view is the patriotic one. Period.

Same as it is for you.

And when was the last time the Republicans passed legislation that was unanimously opposed by the Democrats and impacted the life of every American?

And who says I'm running away? If it goes to civil war I am more than willing to fight. I think it would be stupid and tear up the country, but if that's what it takes to separate so people can live as they choose, so be it.

Besides, it'll be easy, 5-6 suitcase nukes and 90% of the libs in the country will be gone. The rest will be divided with the ones that want to bend over blaming the ones that don't for causing this.

And ultimately it'll be a coalition of folks who want something done for them rather than to do....not to mention actually hate each other. Jews Muslims? Gays Blacks? Whites Minorities?




Easy as pie.

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"direction political partisanship is going."

You conservatives started this divisive, polarizing, extreme partisanship 30 years ago with St Ronnie getting the conservative shitball rolling, and now you don't like it. Brillliant, just fucking brilliant.

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I'd say it was Bush that stated it. Reagan was clearly one of the most popular Presidents in history, if not the most popular. At least based on the margin he won his elections by.

Bush W otoh was easily the most divisive...however, the Democrats responded to him by becoming worse. Now the Republicans will just do the same and a downward spiral ensues.

Like I say,...show me the legislation unanimously opposed by the Democrats that was ramrodded through.

And it doesn't matter who started it anyway...it's started, that's all that matters,.


If we are about to become two nations...you can do it peacefully or you can do it violently...violently is going to make everything suck for everyone, including the winners.




I said the same thing in 2004 when all the Democrats were bitching about Bush...if you don't like it, secede. I am saying the same thing now to all the Rebpuclians bitching about Obama, if you don't like it, secede.

If that leads to civil war, then so be it.




I would think someone who is always talking about how evil America is would welcome the dissolution of the Union. If America it breaks up it can no longer commit all the evils you claim it commits.

Anyway, if you think I would back down from a fight, you are mistaken. But you go ahead and keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better.

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Originally Posted by whottt

If I have to waive catastrophic care to not have this, give me the waiver to sign.

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Too generous, it seems to me, but maybe you just prefer having no insurance at all. To each his own.

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Originally Posted by whottt

If that leads to civil war, then so be it.

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Spoken like a man who lies at hazard, forswearing all insurance.

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Originally Posted by whottt

I would think someone who is always talking about how evil America is would welcome the dissolution of the Union. If America it breaks up it can no longer commit all the evils you claim it commits.

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Another tactic would be to quit committing the evils, or otherwise alter the evil totality for the good, but I wd. guess you have already ruled that out.

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Originally Posted by Winehole23

Too generous, it seems to me, but maybe you just prefer having no insurance at all. To each his own.

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Well it just depends on the catastrophe.

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Originally Posted by Winehole23

Spoken like a man who lies at hazard, forswearing all insurance.

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Too vague for me, I can think of at least 3 different ways to take that comment. If it is intended as a slight would you make it more clear so I can be properly insulted?

No slight intended.

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Originally Posted by Winehole23

Another tactic would be to quit committing the evils, or otherwise alter the evil totality for the good, but I wd. guess you have already ruled that out.

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One man's good is another man's evil. Ideologies matter more than intentions. The other side attempts to make the other look subhman.

Democrat = Good
Republican = Evil

Or vice versa.

And our politicians are happily leading us down that road.

There is no reconciling that, with the number of people currently operating under that mindset. What is the point of trying to make that work? There is none.

So when it's not working can you either just let it go or you can fight it out. Fighting it out is destructive as we all know. Our ability to change governments without tearing up our country is a huge reason this has been a good place to live. But it's also at the point where the political parties and the extremists that back their bases, want to destroy each other.

There is no stop doing evil or stop doing good allowed in that equation. I think attempting that is a long walk down a very stupid road.


The way I look at it, ultimately it will be the political parties and their card carrying followers that destroyed the Union, not that it will matter.

And I'm not ever going to like the way the Democrats went about this healthcare bill. I'd have been happier if they just made it for Democrats...Democrats pay for it, Democrats benefit from it. If you want it, become a Democrat. It would be more fair than what they did. And if it is illegal for one of the parties to do that to themselves, it damn sure ought to be illegal for one of them to do it to both of them.

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Originally Posted by whottt

There is no reconciling that, with the number of people currently operating under that mindset. What is the point of trying to make that work? There is none.

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Not everyone is as so reconciled to the mindset as you seem to be.

You seem reconciled to the theoretical impossibility of the emergence of a third distinct political flavor. I see no reason to be, particularly at this juncture of US history. The field is wide open for stuff that used to be strictly freaky and fringy, just a few years ago.

Like libertarianism.

I'm not the guy that you really need to be trying to convince. boutons is the guy with ideology determines intent world view...and there are plenty just like him on the other side. It's those guys that are in control of the parties now.

I generally don't think the quality of the conversation inmproves the more voices being heard...it can, but it generally doesn't.

If a solution emerges fine, but you still have to deal with the fact that members of one party that just got screwed by the other party, and calling on the victim to be the reasonable one is going to totally piss those guys off...I can tell you that right now. That's part of the reason they're not Democrats in the first place.