Post 9/11 GI Bill

As suggested, creating a thread about the Post 9/11 GI Bill. There are some big changes from the Montgomery GI Bill.

1) You don't have to pay $1200 in to activate the 9/11 Bill.

2) Pays housing costs equal to an E-5 with depedents

3) Pays for books

4) Transferable to spouses or children after a set amt of service time (roughly ten years active duty)

I definitely plan on using this one way or another after I leave the service (which, if I stay 20, will put me out in 2019 at the age of 37!)

I'm hoping to attain my Master's before I get out using Tuition Assistance. If so, I will transfer this over to my spouse or child.

I find it invaluable! What I'd like to know, is there anyone that disagrees with this program? Technically, it's being paid for with taxpayer money.

Could we develop other programs that are similar to this, that the majority of posters can agree with?

In the same vein, do most conservatives agree with items like merit scholarships?

GI Bill was much more generous after WWII when America was not so wealthy, but income taxes were much higher, like 90% on incomes $250K+

Those GI Bill college educations help build the most wealthy and powerful middle class, now gutted by predatory health care system, predatory financial system, even with much lower income taxes.

But keep fighting to lower income taxes so we can screw over our military retirees that conservative love to love but only with lip service, never with their taxes.

boutons_douche.....never misses an opportunity for a neocon non sequitur rant. :lmao

To answer your question Lng, hell no. I have zero problems with this program and think it should be mandatory that it's extended to the children of servicemen and women. Those kids have made their own, unique, sacrifices which I believe deserve recognition and reward.

On a broader point, I have about zero issues with needs tested funding for anyone who can successfully pass a college entrance exam. This is as significant an investment as primary education is...maybe even more so now. There's a bucket full of unintended consquences to consider if we ever stroll down this lane tho. Entrance exams being a real kicker. As a society, we are, hopefully, starting to tilt away from the standardized exam as a funding/achievement measurement tool, as well we should. But, I can see this movement throwing a monkey wrench (honestly, where did the term monkey wrench come from?) into constructing what would have to be a fairly well designed entrance exam.


*edit*...ooops re-read your post. It's already available to the kids. Good.

I'm all for the GI bill.


Also, I think there should be some kind of bill to help servicemen with housing issues (selling old home, finding a new one) when they have to get stationed in a different state or overseas. Maybe there already is such a bill?

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Originally Posted by DarrinS

I'm all for the GI bill.


Also, I think there should be some kind of bill to help servicemen with housing issues (selling old home, finding a new one) when they have to get stationed in a different state or overseas. Maybe there already is such a bill?

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Actually, funny you should mention that Darrin. They did approve a bill to help out servicemen who get caught when the landlord can't pay for the house or similar situations.

http://www.military.com/Finance/cont...173187,00.html

And there's always Basic Allowance for Housing for those off-base, or base housing if room's available. (I live in base housing on Joint Base Pearl Harbor-Hickam... yes, we're a joint base now.)

As well, the VA Loan helps co-sign for one house loan per service member. (I believe active duty is a requirement, but I could be wrong.)

AFAIK though, there's no bill that helps with buying/selling a house, apart from the support services the base provides. (In the AF, the Family Support Center usually has classes/programs that can help families with various issues.)

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Originally Posted by TeyshaBlue

But, I can see this movement throwing a monkey wrench (honestly, where did the term monkey wrench come from?)

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The image of the monkeywrench thrown into the moving parts of a machine to stop it from working was popularized by Edward Abbey in the novel The Monkeywrench Gang and has been adopted by eco-activists to describe destruction of earth damaging machinery.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabotage

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Monkeywrench_Gang

It seems like the usage pre-dates the book, but the term was popularized by the book.

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Originally Posted by LnGrrrR

AFAIK though, there's no bill that helps with buying/selling a house, apart from the support services the base provides. (In the AF, the Family Support Center usually has classes/programs that can help families with various issues.)

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What if you life in an area with a really shit real estate market? You have a housing allowance, but now you're forced to split it between a house you can't sell and a new home. Kinda sucks. Civilians face similar issues, but they have a choice about whether or not to relocate.

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Originally Posted by DarrinS

What if you life in an area with a really shit real estate market? You have a housing allowance, but now you're forced to split it between a house you can't sell and a new home. Kinda sucks. Civilians face similar issues, but they have a choice about whether or not to relocate.

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What happens is... you're screwed.

To be honest though, military members know the risks of buying a house. Unless you're in a crazy special duty career field, you can expect to spend roughly 3 years in an area before you leave. You might end up staying 10... or you might not.

A friend of mine at Keesler AFB couldn't sell her house before she left... now she's renting it at a loss. Does it suck? Yes. But it's not like we don't know the risks. That's why I haven't bought a house yet... I'm planning on using my VA loan once I get out and know exactly where I plan on settling down.

Oh, and in case you were wondering, the Basic Allowance for Housing is determined by zip code, rank and dependents. So while I lived in Biloxi, my BAH pay was roughly 1200. When I moved here to Honolulu, it jumped to roughly 2000 a month.

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Originally Posted by LnGrrrR

What happens is... you're screwed.

To be honest though, military members know the risks of buying a house. Unless you're in a crazy special duty career field, you can expect to spend roughly 3 years in an area before you leave. You might end up staying 10... or you might not.

A friend of mine at Keesler AFB couldn't sell her house before she left... now she's renting it at a loss. Does it suck? Yes. But it's not like we don't know the risks. That's why I haven't bought a house yet... I'm planning on using my VA loan once I get out and know exactly where I plan on settling down.

Oh, and in case you were wondering, the Basic Allowance for Housing is determined by zip code, rank and dependents. So while I lived in Biloxi, my BAH pay was roughly 1200. When I moved here to Honolulu, it jumped to roughly 2000 a month.

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Back in the old days (10 years ago), you could probably live in a house for 3 years and still be able to be able to turn a profit. Must be nice to be stationed in Hawaii. Have you found the birth certificate? :lol Just kidding.

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Originally Posted by LnGrrrR

As suggested, creating a thread about the Post 9/11 GI Bill. There are some big changes from the Montgomery GI Bill.

1) You don't have to pay $1200 in to activate the 9/11 Bill.

2) Pays housing costs equal to an E-5 with depedents

3) Pays for books

4) Transferable to spouses or children after a set amt of service time (roughly ten years active duty)

I definitely plan on using this one way or another after I leave the service (which, if I stay 20, will put me out in 2019 at the age of 37!)

I'm hoping to attain my Master's before I get out using Tuition Assistance. If so, I will transfer this over to my spouse or child.

I find it invaluable! What I'd like to know, is there anyone that disagrees with this program? Technically, it's being paid for with taxpayer money.

Could we develop other programs that are similar to this, that the majority of posters can agree with?

In the same vein, do most conservatives agree with items like merit scholarships?

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Pure wealth redistribution.

That must make it bad for the economy, because it takes away from the ability of rich people to hire gardeners.

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Originally Posted by LnGrrrR

AFAIK though, there's no bill that helps with buying/selling a house, apart from the support services the base provides. (In the AF, the Family Support Center usually has classes/programs that can help families with various issues.)

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USAA does have a program in place to help with this though.

If you don't support this bill, you're supporting the terrorists. Why do you hate the troops? If you support this bill, you're a socialist.

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Originally Posted by DarrinS

What if you life in an area with a really shit real estate market? You have a housing allowance, but now you're forced to split it between a house you can't sell and a new home. Kinda sucks. Civilians face similar issues, but they have a choice about whether or not to relocate.

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They did pass a law which compensated the difference of loss, when the housing bubble popped. they do adjust the bah by the different cities. For instance, you get a higher bah in new york, than in texas.

I am for this gi bill, besides the fact I personally benefit from it. It is a incentive for trying to enlist soldiers to fight this countries wars. Since the average job in the army is at a loss, than their civilian counter-part, there needs to be ways to get someone to join. There should also be a reward for someone having to give up their constitutional rights for a minimum eight years.

I've been using this bill since last August. It's VERY nice.

Getting BAH is the shit, especially if you live in a high cost area. I get over 2 grand a month when I'm in school for housing allowance, though I only spend about $1200 in rent. I still pocket a good chunk after utilities.

It was a little crazy getting everything set up with the school, though. Nobody had a clue what the hell they were doing and I didn't get my first payment until December. It's all good now, though.

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Originally Posted by spursncowboys

I am for this gi bill, besides the fact I personally benefit from it. It is a incentive for trying to enlist soldiers to fight this countries wars. Since the average job in the army is at a loss, than their civilian counter-part, there needs to be ways to get someone to join. There should also be a reward for someone having to give up their constitutional rights for a minimum eight years.

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You expect something back? Service should be its own reward.

Fuck you if you think you should get extra. If service isn't its own reward, you did it for the wrong reason.

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Originally Posted by Winehole23

You expect something back? Service should be its own reward.

Fuck you if you think you should get extra. If service isn't its own reward, you did it for the wrong reason.

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I'm not sure if this is tongue-in-cheek WH23, but I think most members of the armed services are proud to serve, especially those who reenlist.

I took that post as saying that it's nice that our service is recognized in a tangible way, by providing incentives/benefits, etc etc.

I love the Air Force, personally. I like the job, the community, the fact that it is an extended "family" to me. But I think it's also nice that I can use TA to work on my degree, free health care for myself and reduced costs for my family, etc etc.

Most of the people who are in the military just for the education benefits tend to only stay four years, in my personal experience. I'm sure I could make more money on the outside, but I enjoy the military lifestyle and the associated benefits.

If the military, for instance, didn't have free healthcare, or didn't provide education benefits, would I think more about getting out? Of course, now that I have a family to think about. But I'm glad I don't have to make that decision, as I am proud to serve. :)

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Originally Posted by DarrinS

Back in the old days (10 years ago), you could probably live in a house for 3 years and still be able to be able to turn a profit. Must be nice to be stationed in Hawaii. Have you found the birth certificate? :lol Just kidding.

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Not yet, but I'll keep my eye open!

And yes, getting stationed at Hawaii is somewhat like winning the lottery. Especially after living in the land that Katrina destroyed, aka Biloxi, MS for six years or so before I got here. :D

"most members of the armed services are proud to serve"

The careerists love the job security and benefits, esp when they look outside the military and see how bad it is.

Anybody notice how the Banksters Great Depression drives unemployed/unemployable kids into "serving their country proudly", but no banksters are enlisting?

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The careerists love the job security and benefits, esp when they look outside the military and see how bad it is.

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Those are definitely perks, but job security isn't everything it used to be in the military. When the service goes through cuts (of which the Air Force has lately), then they force a certain number of people to cross-train into critical/undermanned career fields... or kick you out.

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Originally Posted by Winehole23

You expect something back? Service should be its own reward.

Fuck you if you think you should get extra. If service isn't its own reward, you did it for the wrong reason.

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[/Heinlein.]

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Originally Posted by TeyshaBlue

[/Heinlein.]

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To be fair Teysha, Heinlein proposed voting rights were bestowed only on those who signed up... that's arguably MORE important than education and health care benefits. :)

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Originally Posted by LnGrrrR

To be fair Teysha, Heinlein proposed voting rights were bestowed only on those who signed up... that's arguably MORE important than education and health care benefits. :)

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Troof! In the Starship Trooper world, voting was a franchise granted only to those in Federal Service. It didn't hold any intrinsic value comparable to contemporary service benefits..indeed, Rico's father was a highly successful businessman who bragged about his family's centuries long tradition of non-service.
Sorry, I'm a Heinlein nerd. I should be put down. :lol

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Originally Posted by LnGrrrR

I'm not sure if this is tongue-in-cheek WH23, but I think most members of the armed services are proud to serve, especially those who reenlist.

I took that post as saying that it's nice that our service is recognized in a tangible way, by providing incentives/benefits, etc etc.

I love the Air Force, personally. I like the job, the community, the fact that it is an extended "family" to me. But I think it's also nice that I can use TA to work on my degree, free health care for myself and reduced costs for my family, etc etc.

Most of the people who are in the military just for the education benefits tend to only stay four years, in my personal experience. I'm sure I could make more money on the outside, but I enjoy the military lifestyle and the associated benefits.

If the military, for instance, didn't have free healthcare, or didn't provide education benefits, would I think more about getting out? Of course, now that I have a family to think about. But I'm glad I don't have to make that decision, as I am proud to serve. :)

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That came out sideways. I have no problem with whatever incentives the armed services give to people to join. SnC bitching about the loss of civil rights got me bent out of shape for some reason, and I'm sure the head full of hops didn't help. Sorry all.

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Originally Posted by TeyshaBlue

Sorry, I'm a Heinlein nerd. I should be put down. :lol

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Obviously, I am as well. It's somewhat mandatory though, being a comm troop. :)

Ever read Joe Haldeman? Wrote the Forever War? (I believe those names/titles are correct)

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Originally Posted by Winehole23

That came out sideways. I have no problem with whatever incentives the armed services give to people to join. SnC bitching about the loss of civil rights got me bent out of shape for some reason, and I'm sure the head full of hops didn't help. Sorry all.

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I figured you'd wish to clarify. :) Thanks WH23.

Sometimes I'm a jackass too. It's a danger coincident to frequent posting.

...under the influence, at times. :lol

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Originally Posted by LnGrrrR

Obviously, I am as well. It's somewhat mandatory though, being a comm troop. :)

Ever read Joe Haldeman? Wrote the Forever War? (I believe those names/titles are correct)

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I'm a huge Haldeman fan, and I've read that book about 3 times.:toast

I'll re read a book every few years cause I'm a cheap bastard and never throw my paperbacks away.:lol


Give "Armor" by John Steakley a good read if you haven't already.

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Originally Posted by TeyshaBlue

I'm a huge Haldeman fan, and I've read that book about 3 times.:toast

I'll re read a book every few years cause I'm a cheap bastard and never throw my paperbacks away.:lol


Give "Armor" by John Steakley a good read if you haven't already.

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I'll check that out.

And to derail the thread even further... when I last deployed, there was a Chief who taught a leadership lesson based on aspects of Starship Troopers. Pretty dang interesting. :)

Early Orson Scott Card, Heinlein, and Haldeman are my faves, I think. Then of course there's PK Dick, REH, and Wells...

1984 is the book I re-read every few years. :D

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Originally Posted by Duff McCartney

If you don't support this bill, you're supporting the terrorists. Why do you hate the troops? If you support this bill, you're a socialist.

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LOL, I still don't know the details of the bill. I'm sure there are some good things and some bad things. Such a package will be full of compromises. I will say this:

1) I believe any service member should be afforded an education for serving in jobs that are not civilian equivalents. Those at the greatist risk are those who serve on the battle lines and there really isn't a civilian related job. If the serve honorable, I say give them a with while education.

2) Many of the better military jobs require an aptitude to get training that do have good civilian related jobs. The military (at least when I was there) offered fantastic schools. I can see not giving these plush jobs such incentives, or not as good of incentives to join. My military experience opened all kinds of doors to then real world job market.

3) VA hospital benifits should be endless for those who were injured in manners during their service that made life changes for them while serving.

Other things are open in my mind.

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Originally Posted by spursncowboys

I am for this gi bill, besides the fact I personally benefit from it. It is a incentive for trying to enlist soldiers to fight this countries wars. Since the average job in the army is at a loss, than their civilian counter-part, there needs to be ways to get someone to join. There should also be a reward for someone having to give up their constitutional rights for a minimum eight years.

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I'm with you there.

When I was in the best position to buy a house, I didn't, because my marriage was already on the downhill slide. I have never used any military benefits after leaving, but I might at some point use the VA loan. I wonder what the details are today?