Printable View
..aside, I think we should all remember what McVeigh claimed was his primary motivation behind the Oklahoma City bombing.
Yep, Bill and Janet's performance in Waco.
Slick Willy has no shame if he is suggesting the Tea Party movement is akin to the sick and twisted cesspool that spawned Timothy McVeigh. He only needs to look at his own actions, as President, to discover what motivates minds like McVeigh's to commit heinous crimes like the Murrah building bombing.
Yoni just loves his child rapists and terrorists.
Are you suggesting McVeigh was fighting against the unjust actions of the Clinton Administration when he decided women and children were fair game? He was a man pushed over the edge because a cult that contributed nothing to the general benefit of our society got burned to the ground? Surely, there's no need for the blame to rest entirely on him and his conspirators when Bill Clinton can also be blamed! *rabble rabble*
I know the board represents a small, small portion of the Anti-Liberal, Anti-Obama, Anti-anything that's not GOP opinions out there...but really, people need to take a step back and realize what fucking pussies they are to never pull this "anti-government extremism" bullshit violence when a Republican is President. I'm not saying its acceptable at any time, but shit...look at all the angry white people!
Yoni simply feels that cult members who own illegal firearms and provide children for their leader to rape should be able to freely kill federal agents without consequence, and that the killing of hundreds of innocent people in reaction to an consequences being brought to the cult members is completely justified as long as Yoni can think he scored a cheap political point on a message board.
Hey, blame Clinton and Morris.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stringer_Bell
He's blaming you for your rabid support of child rapist and terrorists.
Clinton made the call on Waco? Holy fuck!
Reno made him each her crotch -- double holy fuck!Quote:
Originally Posted by jack sommerset
You mean "eat"? If so "That's disgusting".Quote:
Originally Posted by Yonivore
Clinton should have waited it out. Lot's of mouths to feed. Those poor kids.
When considering "Islamic" extremism, nuance and motivation are considered apology and appeasement.
But when the terrorist looks and speaks as "we" do (stack, mcveigh), and his target was Bill Clinton, all that comes back in.
McVeigh is a post-mortem subject of sensitive humanizers like Yoni and Gore Vidal, helping us to understand a complex man with a tortured conscience, whose oppressive government "motivated" him to commit a heinous crime.
Pobrecito.Quote:
Originally Posted by Winehole23
Clinton invaded that compound like Bush invaded Iraq! They both wanted one man and ended up killing lots of innocents to accomplish their goal. Damn shame.
Zipper Billy and Janet Reno made him do it.
You can't really blame McVeigh. A violent and unjust government brought this on itself.
The branch Davidians shouldn't have killed all those ATF agents.
jack and Yoni think they were completely justified.
Why do you hate America, Yoni?
It's clear why Yoni hates America.
He loves child rapists and terrorists.
Clinton hates children. Had them killed. All he had to do was wait them out. Instead he had to play cowboy and shoot up the whole damn place.
http://www.bivingsreport.com/wp-cont.../2007/05/3.gifQuote:
A President has to make tough decisions sometimes.
The Davidians burned their own place down after Koresh refused to release his own children, some of whom were products of child rape.Quote:
Originally Posted by jack sommerset
Clinton should have waited. That is a no brainer. Because Koresh did not release his own children does not mean Clinton should order the attack of them that eventually killed those poor innocent kids. Clinton bought off Reno and hates kids.
The Davidians killed those kids.Quote:
Originally Posted by jack sommerset
How did he buy off Reno?
Clinton played a HUGE part in killing those kids.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChumpDumper
Her job.
Zipper Bill and Mr. Janet Reno killed 74 men and women in Waco, 33 of them children and even added in a dog at Ruby Ridge for fun. It's regretful that McVeigh did what he did, and was unable to get a clear shot of these two.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stringer_Bell
David Koresh is Jesus Christ. They killed Jesus!Quote:
Originally Posted by jack sommerset
David just wanted to shower the kids with his salvation... oh, and his sperm.
Astonishing, if true.
Quote:
There is the post hoc justification for the use of CS tear-gas in the raid offered by the US Justice Department and senior Clinton administration officials. The public generally, and even the Congressional hearings, seem to have accepted that the children at Waco were gassed and then died as, in effect, “collateral damage” in the course of a raid aimed at their parents.
This is not quite the case, however, by the Clinton administration’s own admissions. CS gas was used at the compound, in order, as senior White House adviser George Stephanopoulos said, echoing senior Justice Department statements, to “try and pressure” those in the compound. It was hoped, he said, that as this “pressure was increased, the maternal instincts of the mothers might take over and they might try to leave with their kids” (Washington Times, April 23, 1995).
But the FBI knew beforehand that adults in the compound had gas masks; the gas therefore would not put pressure on them. On whom, then? If the FBI knew that the adults had gas masks, but went ahead with the gas attack anyway, it is plain that this “pressure” was brought directly against the children because, as the FBI knew, they could not fit into adult– size gas masks. “Maternal feelings”, the FBI hoped, would be unleashed in the mothers by watching their children choking, gasping and blistering from the gas.
The plan Reno approved and took to President Clinton for approval contemplated the children choking in the gas unprotected for forty-eight hours if necessary, to produce the requisite “maternal feelings”. By taking aim at the children with potentially lethal gas, their mothers would be compelled, according to the FBI plan repeatedly defended by the Clinton administration afterwards as “rational” planning, to flee with them into the arms of those trying to gas them.
An independent report on Waco written by the Harvard Professor of Law and Psychiatry, Alan A. Stone, for the then Deputy Attorney General Philip Heymann, says it “is difficult to believe that the US government would deliberately plan to expose twenty-five children, most of them infants and toddlers, to CS gas for forty-eight hours”. Unfortunately, however, that appears to have been exactly the plan.
The Davidians killed those kids.Quote:
Originally Posted by jack sommerset
She already had a job.Quote:
Her job.
Yep, word also loves child rapists and terrorists.Quote:
Originally Posted by word
Greeting LE with gunfire is a risky opening gambit. I think the Branch Davidians knew that.
Koresh was a bum and psychopath but what happened at Waco was wrong. Janet Reno. May this heshe rot in hell forever.
The militarization/federalization of LE isn't always pretty, and I cordially dislike the trend.
Because of Koresh.Quote:
Originally Posted by word
All they had to do was not shoot anyone and cooperate with the warrant they knew was going to be served. They shot a bunch of people and didn't cooperate with the warrant they knew was going to be served.
What is your feeling about Ruby Ridge chumper ?
Sounds to me like Morris is bucking it up to Bill.Quote:
Originally Posted by word
It sure would explain why he kept that poor excuse for an Attorney General on for the second term.
Which brings me back to the original point. Bill Clinton has no business lecturing anyone on what exercising their first amendment rights may, or may not, incite.
There is a more direct link between the dead in OKC and Bill Clinton than there is between any act of violence and anything any Tea Party protester has ever uttered.
All Saddam had to do was let us in to look for bombs.
Much less of a clear cut case than Waco, but it's not a good idea to sic your dog on feds either.Quote:
Originally Posted by word
The original point is you love child rapists and terrorists and will do anything to support them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yonivore
No, Bush would have invaded anyway. The machinery of war wasn't going to stop once everything was in place. That's pretty clear.Quote:
Originally Posted by jack sommerset
Clinton linked to OKC bombing with AG Reno, with Mt Carmel as "motivation" for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yonivore
So, in a sense, not only was the OKC bombing well-founded to begin with, in retrospect the rehabilitation is total: against Bill Clinton, what Tim McVeigh did would seem to Yoni not just understandable, but amply justified by the so-called Federal "atrocities" at Mt Carmel.
Actually much more of a clear case, but it seems you're uninformed. Why were they after Randy Weaver and why did the the courts award him a couple million ?Quote:
Originally Posted by ChumpDumper
Christ man, ATF shot his wife with a sniper rifle while she was standing in the door holding her child. His dog was just a mutt.
Give your head a shake, man.
Nothing justifies what McVeigh did in OKC. Nothing justifies what Koresh did at Mt. Carmel. And, nothing justifies what Clinton/Reno did there either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Winehole23
Hey, I'm just reminding everyone what was supposedly McVeigh's principle motivation. Don't shoot the messenger.
But, shouldn't Clinton probably keep his trap shut about inciting violence? Particularly when he invokes an act allegedly motivated by something he did?
Don't sic your mutt on feds.Quote:
Originally Posted by word
Everyone lives.
Yet, you are doing everything in your power to justify them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yonivore
You love them.
They are your heroes.
No doubt. Lesson learned.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yonivore
Obviously, it wasn't learned...Quote:
Originally Posted by jack sommerset
This is revisionist history bs. The dog wasn't sic on anyone and Harris shot and killed an US Marshal, yet the court found he was innocent and did it in self defense. They killed Weaver's wife and son, without a valid cause. That is what happened. Everything else doesn't matter because the government abused their power in that case.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChumpDumper
Waco not so cut and dry, but it’s hard to just blindly agree with the tactics used there since local law enforcement and others disagreed while it was going on.
Either way, I don't support blowing up buildings to prove a point, nor to I believe everything the government puts out.
Don't kill feds.Quote:
Originally Posted by romad_20
Everyone lives.
I didn't agree with the final raid, but the Davidians shouldn't have killed feds.Quote:
Waco not so cut and dry, but it’s hard to just blindly agree with the tactics used there since local law enforcement and others disagreed while it was going on.
Everyone lives.
"sick and twisted cesspool that spawned Timothy McVeigh"
there are plenty of sick and twisted cesspool militias and camo-bubbas, all a bunch of wannbe Rambos too chickenshit, too fat, too old, too diseased to join a legal organization. They listen to sick and twisted hate media like Boortz, Savage, Limbaugh, Fox Repug Network and join silly, confused groups like Whatever Keepers.
In other words you're playing the exact same game as Yoni, but you're trying to move the ball over the opposite goal line. You two deserve each other. :tuQuote:
Originally Posted by boutons_deux
...or we'll kill your kids.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChumpDumper
:toast
Making it out to be something like capital assault on Weaver's part (via his dog) is a bit much.Quote:
Originally Posted by word
If you on some country-ass guy's land without his knowledge or permission, you better be prepared to see some dogs. At the very least.
I resent that, McVeigh actually did perpetrate his act in response to the Waco seige. Carried it out on the 2nd anniversary and said as much in his "authorized biography."Quote:
Originally Posted by Winehole23
Name a terrorist motivated to act by any of the people name by boutons douche.
Fair enough. Perhaps your emphasis was more explanatory and less apologetic than it first seemed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yonivore
Well, we gave Tim McVeigh a lethal injection. Would you like a cookie? :kingQuote:
Originally Posted by Yonivore
More puny chest thumping. I guess I can understand wanting Bill Clinton to shut his trap, but your case frankly failed at delivery.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yonivore
The JRome-esque weasel word modifies the word that carried all the weight for you, Yoni -- motivated. This "motivation" was the only stated basis for the "clear link to the OKC dead" you posed upstream. Remember?
The ATF was pissed at Weaver because they wanted him to be an informat for them. It's been so long I forget the details, but he ended up declining and they went after him.
Hey, he got an apology in a congressional hearing and was awarded a couple of million. I think it's well established the gov screwed up. The injustice here was, the ATF agent that shot his wife, didn't do a day in prison.
What Bill Clinton thinks is no longer germane in the political sense. He more belongs to the world of gossip, the tabloids and the paparazzi. He remains pertinent and perhaps important at the level of journalism.
Don't like Bill Clinton? Don't listen to him. I don't.
I truely believe, that Bill Clinton is a sociopath. Likeable guy, smooth, polished. But what sociopath isn't ? Fact is a lot of our politicians and ceo's are probably sociopaths. True all over the world. Like the cub scouts and the priesthood attract pedophiles, politics attracts a certain personality type.
You don't need some strained, uber-cranky semantic argument linking Bill Clinton to the OKC bombing, in order to give yourself permission to ignore him.
At least, I don't.
Hunter S. Thompson thought the same thing. Have you read Confessions of a Political Junkie?Quote:
Originally Posted by word
Found this at Volokh, Winehole. Go argue with David Kopel, he's apparently given this more thought than either of us.
Waco
That's all I've been saying.Quote:
Originally Posted by David Kopel
Not so clear cut, IMO. But it sure ain't pretty.Quote:
perpetrating and covering up numerous violent and other crimes at Waco
Maybe you play the game a little better than Boutons, but I wouldn't brag on that too much.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yonivore
I don't carry water for Boutons. Rather, I was criticizing both of you for being blinkered, reflexive partisans.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yonivore
Have not. Hunter S. Thompson book ? ( I suppose I could like....look that up on the innernets...)Quote:
Originally Posted by Winehole23
Not good enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by Winehole23
Bdouche just spouts shit without any justification, support, or evidence. I actually make the connection. And, if you look back, I think you'll find the trends, for both of us, are fairly consistent in that regard.
I accurately cite Timothy McVeigh as having said the Waco siege was motivation for the Oklahoma City Bombing.
Boutons-deux just says conservative talk radio hosts incite violence without so much as pointing to any act of violence, connected to anything said by any conservative talk radio host.
We're not playing the same game.
And, on one count, I call foul.Quote:
I don't carry water for Boutons. Rather, I was criticizing both of you for being blinkered, reflexive partisans.
awesome...I like page 108...'taken at face value...'
Gonzo was just pure genius...you know I met him once in Colorado and I use the word 'met' very loosely. Saw ...
It's what you do with the citation that makes you a hack. McVeigh blames Clinton for the OKC dead. You seemed to be blaming it on Clinton too. My bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yonivore
You brag too much. You are.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yonivore
Boutons is more PFA than you, I'll agree with that. You're definitely more of a twistifier, Yoni, though you're not above just making stuff up.
That's really neat. Story?Quote:
Originally Posted by word
Nope, wasn't blaming Clinton for OKC. Just pointing out he had a lot of chutzpah invoking OKC as a manifestation of right-wing dissent when, in fact, it was his administration the bomber held out as motivation. That's all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Winehole23
Obviously, I disagree.Quote:
Originally Posted by Winehole
So then, the OKC was a manifestation of right wing dissent, or it wasn't? Please pick one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yonivore
Fair enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yonivore
It was the manifestation of an anti-government lunatic. But, again, you avoid the point...Quote:
Originally Posted by Winehole23
Hunter S. Thompson was also on a lot of drugs, a lot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Winehole23
Does "anti-government lunatic" better describe the far left or the far right?Quote:
Originally Posted by Yonivore
Avenging the innocent against a satanic and oppressive government. And?Quote:
Originally Posted by Yonivore
You think Clinton's speech about OKC shows him out as an unbearable hypocrite and fraud; I thought he already was one.
You seem to delight in the unmasking; it merely bores me.
Vive la difference.
"shouldn't Clinton probably keep his trap shut about inciting violence"
You just don't want ANYBODY opening their trap about the your right-wing terrorist militias and Whatever Keepers.
Still Beating on Clinton After All These Years?
The 100s of 1000s of lives and $Ts wasted and destroyed by dubya are much more important and long lasting than the fuckup in Waco. But, you skate rate past those fiascos and keep beating on Clinton.
If those Koresh assholes would have been Black Panthers, I'm sure you'd never bring it up again, except to argue that they got what they deserved.
And, he ate a bullet for breakfast one morning.Quote:
Originally Posted by DMX7
Not everyone is as enlightened as you and I.Quote:
Originally Posted by Winehole23
DIA...he was riding in one of those United shuttle carts through the terminal ....a couple of people were taking pictures with their cell phone cameras of this cart and I was like, 'who the fuck is that, anyway' and when he went by, it was HST and I yelled, 'Gonzo' ...and he kinda acknowledged me raising a couple of fingers while holding onto a bag as he zoomed on by.Quote:
Originally Posted by Winehole23
Wow another stoey from Dick Morris.. curious to know why all of a sudden this comes out.. couldn't be that he was written , yet another, Obama is the boggey man book would it?
Quote:
Second verse, same as the first
It can describe both, but honestly, I can't remember the last time I heard about the (supposed) threat posed by some cultish, left-wing militia in the USA.Quote:
Originally Posted by DMX7
(Lately, anyway.)