Ariz. governor signs immigration enforcement bill

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PHOENIX -- Gov. Jan Brewer ignored criticism from President Barack Obama on Friday and signed into law a bill supporters said would take handcuffs off police in dealing with illegal immigration in Arizona, the nation's busiest gateway for human and drug smuggling from Mexico.

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Earlier Friday, Obama called the Arizona bill "misguided" and instructed the Justice Department to examine it to see if it's legal. He also said the federal government must enact immigration reform at the national level - or leave the door open to "irresponsibility by others."
"That includes, for example, the recent efforts in Arizona, which threaten to undermine basic notions of fairness that we cherish as Americans, as well as the trust between police and their communities that is so crucial to keeping us safe," Obama said.


The legislation, sent to the Republican governor by the GOP-led Legislature, makes it a crime under state law to be in the country illegally. It also requires local police officers to question people about their immigration status if there is reason to suspect they are illegal immigrants; allows lawsuits against government agencies that hinder enforcement of immigration laws; and makes it illegal to hire illegal immigrants for day labor or knowingly transport them.

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The law will take effect in late July or early August, and Brewer ordered the state's law enforcement licensing agency to develop a training course on how to implement it without violating civil rights.

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Anti-immigrant anger has swelled in the past month, after rancher Rob Krentz was found dead on his land north of Douglas, near the Mexico border. Authorities believe he was fatally shot by an illegal immigrant possibly connected to a drug smuggling cartel.

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Pearce said the legislation would remove "political handcuffs" from police and help drive illegal immigrants from the state.
"Illegal is illegal," said Pearce, a driving force on the issue in Arizona. "We'll have less crime. We'll have lower taxes. We'll have safer neighborhoods. We'll have shorter lines in the emergency rooms. We'll have smaller classrooms."

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http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...301250_pf.html

What does an illegal immigrant look like?

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It also requires local police officers to question people about their immigration status if there is reason to suspect they are illegal immigrants

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...blue eyes and blond hair obviously, duh!

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

What does an illegal immigrant look like?

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Meskin, stupid! :lol

so, States are tired of the Fed gov't doing Absolutely Nothing about the illegal immigration problem since forever, and they never will.

Jails and court dockets are still pretty full. Can they stand the extra volume?

Can small municipalities really bear the expense? Would you be willing to pay higher taxes for your city to start dealing with it?

Are police trained to deal with immigrants/immigration issues?

Given well-known demographic trends in the USA, isn't it politically tone-deaf for the GOP to hitch its wagon to the star of 21st century Know-Nothings?

lol @ Obama not willing to do shit on immigration this year for political reasons

lol @ states getting fed up

lol @ Arizona taking the law into their own hands

lol @ the biggest march in this country in the past few years being a bunch of pissed off non-americans and non-american apologists

lol @ teabaggabaggers being racists for not giving a shit about non-americans

lol @ citizens of the world

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"Illegal is illegal," said Pearce, a driving force on the issue in Arizona. "We'll have less crime. We'll have lower taxes. We'll have safer neighborhoods. We'll have shorter lines in the emergency rooms. We'll have smaller classrooms."

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Russel Pearce is a fucking idiot, BUT Arizona has a right to do what it feels is right. This law won't help as much as it will annoy people because it was actually passed. I can't envision a scenario where anyone other than Mexican-looking people are asked for "their papers."

Why not just stop the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and shore up our borders and port security? If we don't want illegals, we need to get serious about it instead of entertaining bullshit like this. By the time the bad guys kill someone or the immigrants over fill our hospital rooms it's too late.

What would the AZ economy look like without years, decades of all that cheap, abused, underpaid, undeclared cash labor?

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Originally Posted by EmptyMan

lol @ Obama not willing to do shit on immigration this year for political reasons

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What did Republicans do about immigration when they were in full control of the government?

Be specific.

Repugs had 6 years to "fix" immigration, and all they did was start bullshit wars and cut taxes on the super-wealthy.

Cheap immigrant labor, often underpaid and unpaid and undeclared, is boon for (Repug) corporations.

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Originally Posted by boutons_deux

Repugs had 6 years to "fix" immigration, and all they did was start bullshit wars and cut taxes on the super-wealthy.

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bush's fix is barry's fix. WTF? Are all the tax payers super-wealthy?

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Originally Posted by spursncowboys

bush's fix is barry's fix.

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I believe they are working on a bill now. Which bill did Bush pass?

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WTF? Are all the tax payers super-wealthy?

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Were your taxes lower or higher this year?

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Originally Posted by Nbadan

...blue eyes and blond hair obviously, duh!

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Yes, there are several Ukranians where I live who might be illegals.

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Originally Posted by Wild Cobra

Yes, there are several Ukranians where I live who might be illegals.

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Quick! Call the hounds! AUTHORITIES!!!

"bush's fix is barry's fix. "

dubya fixed shit.

"all the tax payers super-wealthy?"

the super wealthy got the super tax cuts, the rest got pro forma window-dressing crumbs.

Wasn't Obama one of the senators who killed Bush's effort to pass immigration reform? Yeah, I think it was.

It's a shame that Obama didn't allow those more capable than him to get something done and now can't do anything himself.

Repugs are pig-squealing that the Dems are opportunistically rushing to put immigration reform ahead of climate reform, to give the Dems a leg up with Latinos in November.

But it was the nut-job AZ Repugs who forced immigration into the spotlight in the past few days, not the Dems.

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Originally Posted by mogrovejo

Wasn't Obama one of the senators who killed Bush's effort to pass immigration reform? Yeah, I think it was.

It's a shame that Obama didn't allow those more capable than him to get something done and now can't do anything himself.

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What makes you say he can't do anything?

a law making it illegal to be illegal? Is that a double negative?

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Originally Posted by mogrovejo

Wasn't Obama one of the senators who killed Bush's effort to pass immigration reform? Yeah, I think it was.

It's a shame that Obama didn't allow those more capable than him to get something done and now can't do anything himself.

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No, he co-authored an amendment before voting for the 2006 CIRA.

Thank you, come again.

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articl...andalized.html


I personally have mixed feelings about this law, on one hand the word illegal means you're committing a crime punishable by law, on the other hand the thought of the government racially profiling in any way scares the shit out of me.

motherfuckers. I love Arizona Ice Tea and now I'm gonna have to boycott that shit. Anybody know other non-arizona options?

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Originally Posted by DUNCANownsKOBE

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articl...andalized.html


I personally have mixed feelings about this law, on one hand the word illegal means you're committing a crime punishable by law, on the other hand the thought of the government racially profiling in any way scares the shit out of me.

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that's okay cause you're white

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Originally Posted by Trainwreck2100

that's okay cause you're white

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In this particular situation racial stereotyping MIGHT be appropriate, but it's the slippery slope logic. You give the government a blank check to racially profile and arrest without a warrant because someone's race is probable cause, that could lead to all kinds of unimaginable shit if the wrong person/people get power.

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Originally Posted by DUNCANownsKOBE

In this particular situation racial stereotyping MIGHT be appropriate, but it's the slippery slope logic. You give the government a blank check to racially profile and arrest without a warrant because someone's race is probable cause, that could lead to all kinds of unimaginable shit if the wrong person/people get power.

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It'll lead to all kinds of unimaginable shit well before it reaches such sinister levels. Can you imagine the strain this is going to put on the court system? The police force? Detention facilities? The economy (by disrupting the work of citizens and illegals alike).

Something clearly needs to be done about immigration policy, but this is half-baked.

"I read an article" that this is actually GOP election to harass LEGAL Hispanics to get out of the state. Legal Hispanics vote 2 Dem to 1 Repug.

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Originally Posted by boutons_deux

"I read an article" that this is actually GOP election to harass LEGAL Hispanics to get out of the state. Legal Hispanics vote 2 Dem to 1 Repug.

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Were this so, we'd probably be seeing the same sort of legislative activity in Texas.

Then again, after the concerted effort to bring down ACORN the past few years, nothing would surprise me.

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Originally Posted by admiralsnackbar

It'll lead to all kinds of unimaginable shit well before it reaches such sinister levels. Can you imagine the strain this is going to put on the court system? The police force? Detention facilities? The economy (by disrupting the work of citizens and illegals alike).

Something clearly needs to be done about immigration policy, but this is half-baked.

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The timing of this bill was retarded. Illegals are leaving Arizona and other Southwest states in record numbers right now because they can't find work. Republicans seem focused on immigration, Democrats seem focused on healthcare, neither fuckin party wants to address what is by far the biggest issue in this country.

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Originally Posted by DUNCANownsKOBE

The timing of this bill was retarded. Illegals are leaving Arizona and other Southwest states in record numbers right now because they can't find work. Republicans seem focused on immigration, Democrats seem focused on healthcare, neither fuckin party wants to address what is by far the biggest issue in this country.

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LOL, I guess you mean the economy? No one is going to address the 6 banks that make of 60%+ of GDP. Anyway...

Let me get this right, please correct me where I'm wrong...when the bill was passed, the AZ Gov. said the Federal Government refused to tackle the problem (which to me is code for "Obama"), without acknowledging that the Republicans helped stopped GW from touching Immigration either. Shortly after, Lindsey Graham and Mitch Mcconnell said that America and Congress were not ready to tackle Immigration. WHAT?!?!

Cops shouldn't have more shit put on their plate by the state turning them into immigration officers. What if the Hispanic community stops cooperating with local police on routine issues? I actually am of the mindset, however twisted it may be, that the police won't ask a SINGLE PERSON for identification...but this is a PR disaster for the state government and law enforcement trying to posture like a lone wolf when the Federal Govement (aka Obama) won't do anything about Immigration. It's so obviously political, they don't care about that rancher that got killed or the footsteps that oddly led back to Mexico.

Also...the Kid from Star Trek just did a good expose on his show about the people that helped bring the Immigration Bill to AZ, bunch of crazy racists I tell ya!

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Originally Posted by nkdlunch

motherfuckers. I love Arizona Ice Tea and now I'm gonna have to boycott that shit. Anybody know other non-arizona options?

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:lol That tea is trash anyway.

There's nothing wrong with enforcing illegal immigration laws, but this Arizona law goes too far. People should not be pulled over because they LOOK like they might be illegal aliens. This is a violation of peoples' rights and will hinder police from doing work they SHOULD be doing.

Just my opinion.

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Originally Posted by DarrinS

There's nothing wrong with enforcing illegal immigration laws, but this Arizona law goes too far. People should not be pulled over because they LOOK like they might be illegal aliens. This is a violation of peoples' rights and will hinder police from doing work they SHOULD be doing.

Just my opinion.

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Agree completely. This is a bill most level headed Republicans and Democrats agree on. I like the idea of finally doing something about illegals, but someone's race isn't probable cause for an arrest.

Maybe you people should actually read the bill before making these asinine comments. This bill is not what you say it is and it specifically PROHIBITS racial profiling. It basically codifies the Federal law and takes great care to not violate civil rights.

If the Federal Government (Republicans and Democrats alike) would stop being so politically correct and actually enforce the immigration laws, the people of Arizona wouldn't have demanded this law be passed.

Love it! Not quite Operation Wetback but we are on our way!

the day when both illegal immigrants AND companies/people that hire them----

are BOTH prosecuted---equally---

will be the day when some kind of progress ---might be made--but that

WILL NEVER HAPPEN...

so until then...keep responding to YOUR inner prejudice and go after the little guy---while allowing the big guy $$$$---to laugh while you do his work...

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Originally Posted by jack sommerset

Love it! Not quite Operation Wetback but we are on our way!

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too late for that jack. whether you like it or not, this country has already become irreversibly latino.

but we're all AMERICAN.

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Originally Posted by Crookshanks

Maybe you people should actually read the bill before making these asinine comments. This bill is not what you say it is and it specifically PROHIBITS racial profiling. It basically codifies the Federal law and takes great care to not violate civil rights.

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Crooky, is the level of suspicion needed for questioning better defined in the bill? All I've read so far is things like this from the OP.

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It also requires local police officers to question people about their immigration status if there is reason to suspect they are illegal immigrants;

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That's very open-ended.

Here is the main text of the bill - you can read it for yourself and determine if the comments made previously are valid.

History
8 U.S.C. § 1373(c) requires Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) to respond to inquiries by federal, state, or local government agencies seeking to verify or ascertain the citizenship or immigration status of any individual within the jurisdiction of the agency for any purpose authorized by law, by providing the requested verification or status information.

Laws 2007, Ch. 279 enacted the Legal Arizona Workers Act (Act). The Act: expands aggravated taking the identity of another person or entity to include the intent to obtain employment; prohibits an employer from intentionally employing an unauthorized alien or knowingly employing an unauthorized alien; requires the Attorney General (AG) or county attorney to investigate complaints and classifies filing a false and frivolous complaint as a class 3 misdemeanor; provides for license suspension for the first violation; requires license revocation on a second violation during a probationary period; and after December 31, 2007, requires every employer to utilize E-Verify to verify employment eligibility. Laws 2008, Chapter 152 further amended the Act.

Provisions
Enforcement of Immigration Law

· Prohibits law enforcement officials and law enforcement agencies of this state or counties, municipalities and political subdivisions from restricting or limiting the enforcement of the federal immigration laws to less than the full extent permitted by federal law.

· Requires officials and agencies to reasonably attempt to determine the immigration status of a person involved in a lawful contact where reasonable suspicion exists regarding the immigration status of the person, except if the determination may hinder or obstruct an investigation.

· Stipulates that if the person is arrested, the person’s immigration status must be determined before the person is released and must be verified with the federal government.

· Stipulates that a law enforcement official or agency cannot solely consider race, color or national origin when implementing these provisions, except as permitted by the U.S. or Arizona Constitution.

· Specifies that a person is presumed to be lawfully present if the person provides any of the following:

Ø A valid Arizona driver license.

Ø A valid Arizona nonoperating identification license.

Ø A valid tribal enrollment card or other form of tribal identification.

Ø A valid federal, state or local government issued identification, if the issuing entity requires proof of legal presence before issuance.

· Requires that if a person is convicted of any state or local law, on discharge from imprisonment or on the assessment of any monetary obligation imposed, ICE or U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) must be immediately notified.

· Authorizes a law enforcement agency to securely transport an unlawfully present alien to a federal facility.

· Requires a law enforcement agency to obtain judicial authorization before securely transporting an unlawfully present alien to a point of transfer that is outside of Arizona.

· Prohibits, except as provided in federal law, officials and agencies of counties, cities, towns or other political subdivisions from being prevented or restricted from sending, receiving or maintaining information relating to the immigration status, of any individual or exchanging that information with another governmental entity for the following official purposes:

Ø Determination of eligibility for any public benefit, service or license.

Ø Verification of any claim of legal domicile if legal domicile is required by law or judicial order.

Ø If the person is an alien, determination of the person’s compliance with federal registration laws.

Ø Pursuant to federal laws regarding communication between government agencies and federal immigration agencies.

· Stipulates that these provisions does not implement, authorize or establish and cannot be construed to implement authorize or establish the REAL ID Act of 2005, including the use of Radio Frequency Identification (RFID).

· Allows a person who is a legal resident of this state to bring an action in superior court to challenge officials and agencies of the state, counties, cities, towns or other political subdivisions that adopt or implement a policy that limits or restricts the enforcement of federal immigration laws to less than the full extent permitted by federal law.

· Requires the court to order any that a violating entity pays a civil penalty of at least $1,000 and not to exceed $5,000 for each day that the policy has remained in effect after it has been found to be violating these provisions.

· States that the court will collect the penalty and transmit the collected monies to the state Treasurer for deposit in the Gang and Immigration Intelligence Team Enforcement Mission (GIITEM) Fund.

· Authorizes the court to award court costs and reasonable attorney fees to any person or any official or agency that prevails in a case brought under these provisions.

· Indemnifies officers against actions brought under these provisions, except if the officer has been adjudged to have acted in bad faith.

· Stipulates that these provisions are to be implemented consistent with federal immigration law protecting the civil right of all persons and respecting the privileges and immunities of US citizens.

im doing a research paper in US/LA relations on Operation Wetback.

would referencing this bill be a good introduction?

or should i play it conservative by saying that historians and policymakers champion the Bracero program as a success to foreign relations but the OW is an often-negated racist backlash to it? BP was an imperial allocation of labor resources and OW was a the racist backlash to it - imperialism not cooperation?

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Originally Posted by The Reckoning

im doing a research paper in US/LA relations on Operation Wetback.

would referencing this bill be a good introduction?

or should i play it conservative by saying that historians and policymakers champion the Bracero program as a success to foreign relations but the OW is an often-negated racist backlash to it?

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operation wetback was backed by the CIA. i doubt we would ever get that out of hand again but the fact that it happened makes any concern over the current legislation valid.

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· Requires officials and agencies to reasonably attempt to determine the immigration status of a person involved in a lawful contact where reasonable suspicion exists regarding the immigration status of the person, except if the determination may hinder or obstruct an investigation.

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I would like to see "reasonable suspicion" here defined. I mean, if a cop pulls over someone who speaks poor English and looks Mexican, is that reasonable suspicion? I would argue it isn't, but it might be interpreted as such. (I know it says later it can't solely consider race/color/national origin, hence I brought up the language issue.)

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· Stipulates that if the person is arrested, the person’s immigration status must be determined before the person is released and must be verified with the federal government.

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I not sure if that part of the bill would be considered constitutional. In one case, the SCOTUS has said that it's not mandatory to produce ID to police officers, but the situation was different.

I think this section is heavy-handed, but I'm ok with other people holding opposite views.

A more libertarian take, from a letter to the American Spectator:

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What's the right approach to dismantling the black market? Liberalization. The immigration black market only exists is because the government has made the legal market as cumbersome as it can.

True immigration reform makes legal channels more appealing, not less. That means lightening the paperwork and the regulatory burden, and eliminating quotas. The more unattractive legality becomes, the more attractive illegality looks in comparison.



Black markets are anathema to a free society. Murder, theft, smuggling, and even slavery are part and parcel of immigrant black markets. They are also easily avoidable - just shrink the black market by making legal immigration easier.

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Not a fan.

If a state wants to do something about illegal immigration -- which is a federal responsibility -- it could reduce the state-provided benefits and services made available to illegal immigrants, or prohibit them altogether consistent with the law. It's a harsh option and it still wouldn't eliminate the main economic incentives that bring many immigrants to this country . . . but it would at least make it harder for the do-nothings and criminals to live comfortably.

But to task local law enforcement with immigration is wrong-headed. It's an invitation to police-state creepiness.

soooo nobodys going to help me with my research paper...


:depressed

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Originally Posted by doobs

But to task local law enforcement with immigration is wrong-headed. It's an invitation to police-state creepiness.

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Yep.

I think I'm going to go to Arizona and steal from some illegals. They definitely won't go to the police now.

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Originally Posted by doobs

I think I'm going to go to Arizona and steal from some illegals. They definitely won't go to the police now.

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probably not but better make sure who you steal from first or they may find your head in sonora.

That's another side effect of tasking LE with immigration responsibilities. Not only will will illegal immigrants tend to avoid reporting crimes or cooperating with investigations, when personally wronged some people might be tempted to take justice into their own hands.

The first thing a policeman does after pulling someone over is ask for their license, registration, and proof of insurance. Do you think you could get away with refusing? So how is this any different? Do you honestly think the police are just going to pull a car over for no real reason just because the driver is hispanic?

I've never been arrested, but don't they always check your ID when you are? So again, what's different about this law?

I really don't get all the uproar. Of course, maybe it's just the stupid people like the ones at MSNBC who had this on the bottom of the screen:

Arizona law makes it a crime to be an illegal immigrant

Well duh - doesn't the word "illegal" denote something criminal? This is just more bitching from the PC crowd, and those who think we should keep our borders open so anyone can come over.

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A Latino truck driver outside Phoenix was taken into custody by law enforcement at a weigh station. He pulled in to have the truck looked at, was apparently approached by Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) agents and asked for ID. He showed them his commercial driver’s license. They asked him for more ID. He told them his social security number. They cuffed him took him to the central office in Phoenix and called his wife to bring his social security card and birth certificate. The man is identifying himself to media only as “Abdon” and he is an American citizen born in the USA.

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http://iowaindependent.com/32851/the...th-certificate

Pretty fucking awful.

I'm waiting for all the Hispanics in AZ to only speak Spanish in public, that'll show everyone who the real minority is!

The Hispanics will outfuck everyone and take over this bitch, don't think we won't try!

Wow. Unfuckinreal. I really hope I'm not in the wrong place at the wrong time when the first racial riot breaks out in this state. Words cannot describe how amazed I am at how much this law blatantly violets constitutional rights.

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Originally Posted by Crookshanks

The first thing a policeman does after pulling someone over is ask for their license, registration, and proof of insurance. Do you think you could get away with refusing? So how is this any different?

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The policeman needs a valid reason to pull over a driver, and he then asks for those items because state law requires every driver to have those items in order to drive. If you refuse to show them, then you get cited and pay fines; in other words, you have committed new traffic offenses. With a traffic ticket, an officer bases his decision to pull over someone on a violation of the traffic laws that he observes (speeding is observable by pacing or radar; it's clear if someone doesn't use a blinker; rolling through a stop sign is an observable offense; etc). This AZ law says an officer can approach and question somebody on suspicion of being in that state illegally. What would an officer observe to arouse his suspicions.

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I've never been arrested, but don't they always check your ID when you are? So again, what's different about this law?

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This law reverses the order. They check your ID first, and then arrest you .

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Originally Posted by Stringer_Bell

I'm waiting for all the Hispanics in AZ to only speak Spanish in public, that'll show everyone who the real minority is!

The Hispanics will outfuck everyone and take over this bitch, don't think we won't try!

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LOL since when have hispanics been organized enough to do so? (besides Cesar)

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Originally Posted by Crookshanks

Arizona law makes it a crime to be an illegal immigrant

Well duh - doesn't the word "illegal" denote something criminal? This is just more bitching from the PC crowd, and those who think we should keep our borders open so anyone can come over.

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The resemblance is semantic. Immigration courts are administrative law courts, not criminal courts. US law has never treated illegal immigrants as criminals. That is brand new. You've been demagogued, Crookshanks.

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Originally Posted by Crookshanks

The first thing a policeman does after pulling someone over is ask for their license, registration, and proof of insurance. Do you think you could get away with refusing? So how is this any different? Do you honestly think the police are just going to pull a car over for no real reason just because the driver is hispanic?

I've never been arrested, but don't they always check your ID when you are? So again, what's different about this law?

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this does not exclusively apply to just routine traffic stops.

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This AZ law says an officer can approach and question somebody on suspicion of being in that state illegally

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Did you read the actual law I posted? Nowhere does it say an officer can approach and question someone soley to check their immigration status. It says they must check while having "lawful contact". Again, I think some of you are getting your shorts in a wad over nothing.

Personally - I don't really care - I say send all the illegals back to where they came from. Illegal is illegal is illegal. You want to come to the United States - then use the proper channels. And I also think they should go after companies that hire illegals. They should receive huge fines, and jail time for subsequent offenses. If you dry up the source of jobs - the illegals will go home. That, and take away their benefits like free schooling for their kids.

What's ironic is that Mexico some of the toughest immigration laws in the world. Yet, they want us to look the other way while all their citizens come into our country illegally.

are the tales of kidnapping, drop houses, murders really getting out of hand? I want to see the factual numbers. I can understand drastic measures need to be put into effect if these things are true. On the other hand however, you can't just take away constitutional rights.

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Originally Posted by Crookshanks

Did you read the actual law I posted? Nowhere does it say an officer can approach and question someone soley to check their immigration status. It says they must check while having "lawful contact". Again, I think some of you are getting your shorts in a wad over nothing.

Personally - I don't really care - I say send all the illegals back to where they came from. Illegal is illegal is illegal. You want to come to the United States - then use the proper channels. And I also think they should go after companies that hire illegals. They should receive huge fines, and jail time for subsequent offenses. If you dry up the source of jobs - the illegals will go home. That, and take away their benefits like free schooling for their kids.

What's ironic is that Mexico some of the toughest immigration laws in the world. Yet, they want us to look the other way while all their citizens come into our country illegally.

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you act as if there has never been a case of an officer using his or her discretion to create a reason for "lawful contact". it is not very difficult for a "tip" to be phoned in on "suspicious activity" at a home or work site.

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Originally Posted by rjv

you act as if there has never been a case of an officer using his or her discretion to create a reason for "lawful contact". it is not very difficult for a "tip" to be phoned in on "suspicious activity" at a home or work site.

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in crookskanks world the police never do anything to create a situation to check someone out.. he lives in a utopia

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Originally Posted by George Gervin's Afro

in crookskanks world the police never do anything to create a situation to check someone out.. he lives in a utopia

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he is a she, and she's never been arrested cuz they don't have lane bryant sized cells. har har

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Originally Posted by clambake

he is a she, and she's never been arrested cuz they don't have lane bryant sized cells. har har

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You should do stand-up comedy clam - you're so hilarious. :rolleyes I haven't been arrested because I make it a habit to obey the law - except for speeding - I do like to drive faster than the posted speed limit. :lol

you know i was kidding.

but you shouldn't speed. i'd hate to be your airbag. har har

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Originally Posted by LnGrrrR

I would like to see "reasonable suspicion" here defined. I mean, if a cop pulls over someone who speaks poor English and looks Mexican, is that reasonable suspicion? I would argue it isn't, but it might be interpreted as such. (I know it says later it can't solely consider race/color/national origin, hence I brought up the language issue.)

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But if a cop pulls somebody over, they're going to ask for identification anyway.

Start outside the Home Depots. These illegals are not hiding, yet. We needed a law like this past so we can confront them and get them the hell out of here. Next, any meskin mowing a yard, stop them and ask for ID. Make it simple for awhile. The obvious hot spots.

I heard this evening that the Arizona police had a hand in crafting this bill. They said all those who go through the Police Academy are taught about reasonable suspicion and probable cause and that this law doesn't change that. And he again reiterated that this law specifically prohibits racial profiling.

I'm all for racial profiling. Best way to find illegals.

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Originally Posted by Crookshanks

The first thing a policeman does after pulling someone over is ask for their license, registration, and proof of insurance. Do you think you could get away with refusing?

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Yes, you can get away with refusing. Check this case.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiibel_...ourt_of_Nevada

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Here the Nevada statute is narrower and precise.” The Nevada Supreme Court had held that the Nevada statute required only that the suspect divulge his name; presumably, he could do so without handing over any documents whatsoever. As long as the suspect tells the officer his name, he has satisfied the dictates of the Nevada stop-and-identify law.

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So it's mandatory to identify yourself, but not hand over documents. (If you're driving, you may have to produce a driver's license to prove you're able to drive, but that's a separate issue from having to ID yourself just because.)

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Originally Posted by Crookshanks

Do you honestly think the police are just going to pull a car over for no real reason just because the driver is hispanic?

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I thought conservatives were supposed to be against more power in our government?

Are you seriously saying you don't see a possibility for this law to be abused?

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Originally Posted by jack sommerset

I'm all for racial profiling. Best way to find illegals.

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just keep wearing your white hood. you'll be cool.

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Originally Posted by Crookshanks

Did you read the actual law I posted? Nowhere does it say an officer can approach and question someone soley to check their immigration status. It says they must check while having "lawful contact". Again, I think some of you are getting your shorts in a wad over nothing.

Personally - I don't really care - I say send all the illegals back to where they came from. Illegal is illegal is illegal. You want to come to the United States - then use the proper channels. And I also think they should go after companies that hire illegals. They should receive huge fines, and jail time for subsequent offenses. If you dry up the source of jobs - the illegals will go home. That, and take away their benefits like free schooling for their kids.

What's ironic is that Mexico some of the toughest immigration laws in the world. Yet, they want us to look the other way while all their citizens come into our country illegally.

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How do you know who is legal or not before the police attempts any "lawful contact"? How many times American citizens of Latino descent, or lawful residents need to be asked for papers or corroborate their nationality before you see this law is a mediocre attempt to solve a legitimate problem?

And the police are granted no deportation rights. All the police can do is detain and eventually hand it over to ICE, who then could deport if the alien doesn't appeal. In the meantime, we have more jails crowded, more money spent processing these people, and eventually all of them back somewhere else a couple of weeks after deportation because the border is still open.

Why is anybody surprised that the usual suspects aren't worried about this legislation? They don't expect to suffer as a result of it, and they clearly don't have the imagination to empathize with those who might. Hmmmm... in what other nations has this mentality been present?

3 hilariously awful bills in a week.

Good job Arizona. Way to give Florida and Texas a run for their money as the worst State in the fucking world.

We should be putting resouces toward strengthening our borders, not toward mitigating the effects of our current porous borders.

Arizona sheriff says he will not enforce this disgusting racist law.

http://www.kgun9.com/global/story.asp?s=12386648

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TUCSON (KGUN9-TV) - Pima County's top lawman says he has no intention of enforcing Arizona's controversial crackdown on illegal immigration. Sheriff Clarence Dupnik calls SB 1070 "racist," "disgusting," and "unnecessary."

Speaking Tuesday morning with KGUN9's Steve Nunez, Dupnik made it clear that while he will not comply with the provisions of the new law, nor will he let illegal immigrants go free. "We're going to keep doing what we've been doing all along," Dupnik said. "We're going to stop and detain these people for the Border Patrol."

The sheriff acknowledged that this course of action could get him hauled into court. SB 1070 allows citizens to sue any law enforcement official who doesn't comply with the law. But Dupnik told Nunez that SB 1070 would force his deputies to adopt racial profiling as an enforcement tactic, which Dupnik says could also get him sued. "So we're kind of in a damned if we do, damned if we don't situation. It's just a stupid law."

Dupnik had harsh words for anyone who thinks SB 1070 will not lead to racial profiling. "If I tell my people to go out and look for A, B, and C, they're going to do it. They'll find some flimsy excuse like a tail light that's not working as a basis for a stop, which is a bunch of baloney."

But if Dupnik feels the law is stupid, its sponsor, State Senator Russell Pearce of Mesa, has the same label for Dupnik. In an e-mail exchange with KGUN9 News, Pearce characterized Dupnik's comments as "the stupidest statement... someone who takes an oath to enforce the law has ever made."

Pearce insisted that SB 1070 prohibits racial profiling. He repeated a phrase he's used in the past, writing, "Illegal is a not a race, it is a crime." And he added, "I guess the 9 Sheriffs who support this bill are racist."

SB 1070 criminalizes illegal immigration. But it will be up to county attorneys to prosecute complaints. That raises an obvious question: will Pima County Attorney Barbara LaWall also refuse to comply with the law? If she joins Dupnik's rebellion, then SB 1070 would be effectively DOA in Pima County.

In answer to that question Tuesday afternoon, LaWall told KGUN9 News that it's too early to tell. LaWall said her position will depend on standards yet to be developed to determine what constitutes "reasonable suspicion" in asking someone for their papers.

SB 1070 is in fact silent on the issue of racial profiling in determining the circumstances under how and when police can stop someone and demand proof of citizenship. When she signed the immigration measure into law on Friday, Governor Jan Brewer also signed an executive order to go with the law. That order requires such standards to be drawn up and for local law enforcement officers to receive training on them. The executive order does not specify what those standards should be, and does not specifically address the issue of racial profiling. But in signing the bill and issuing the order, Brewer stated that she is determined to prevent racial discrimination.

Late Tuesday afternoon, Paul Senseman, spokesman for Governor Jan Brewer, sent KGUN9 this statement in response to a query about Dupnik's stance: "Since the new Arizona law simply regulates immigration the same way that federal law and federal authorities currently regulate, it seems misguided to be angry or react negatively about this bill. Racial profiling is specifically written in the state law to be illegal. No additional documents are needed for anyone in Arizona, other than what federal law currently requires."

The fact that the governor's office was able to get back to KGUN9 News on Tuesday with a response is remarkable, in light of the volume of calls that are pouring in. An office assistant told KGUN9 earlier Tuesday afternoon that over the past five days, the office has received 160,000 phone calls, and is having a hard time keeping up.

KGUN9 has also received very heavy viewer traffic on this issue, although not at that kind of level. E-mails and web postings continue to heavily favor implementation of the law. By viewer request, KGUN9.com is running another "Question of the Day" web poll on this issue. Viewers can find that poll on the KGUN9.com home page, about halfway down on the right, and may cast votes through midnight on Tuesday.

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Hmmm. This is interesting.


http://www.drudgereport.com/flashhs.htm

http://www.drudgereport.com/janet.jpg

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SEND IN THE DRONES: PREDATORS TO FLY ABOVE TEX-MEX BORDER
Tue Apr 27 2010 19:39:41 ET

Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano told a Senate hearing Tuesday that unmanned aerial drones will soon fly through Texas skies!

"Big Sis" declared that over the past 15 months, federal law enforcement initiatives have made the border more secure than in any other time in history, the SAN ANTONIO EXPRESS-NEWS reports in Wednesday editions.

The new "predator bees" have the capability to fly at altitudes used by commercial aircraft, and are designed to enhance intelligence capabilities of federal, state and local law enforcement.

But a recent analysis of the use of unmanned aerial vehicles found that they were twice as likely to crash as manned aircraft, according to the Congressional Research Service.

Developing...

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What's ironic is that Mexico some of the toughest immigration laws in the world. Yet, they want us to look the other way while all their citizens come into our country illegally.

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maybe if the US hadn't done such a good job of turning the mexican economy (along with all these crappy technocrat presidents that mexico has had) into such a mess (NAFTA was the last nail in the coffin) the impetus to migrate would not be where it is at now. (not to mention all the illegals that have poured into mexico from central america over the years).

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Originally Posted by rjv

maybe if the US hadn't done such a good job of turning the mexican economy (along with all these crappy technocrat presidents that mexico has had) into such a mess (NAFTA was the last nail in the coffin) the impetus to migrate would not be where it is at now. (not to mention all the illegals that have poured into mexico from central america over the years).

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:huh

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Originally Posted by DarrinS

:huh

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i'm afraid i'm not familiar with this operator of symbolic logic.

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Originally Posted by rjv

i'm afraid i'm not familiar with this operator of symbolic logic.

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I don't understand how we suppposedly destroyed the economy of Mexico. So, at some point in history Mexico was an economic powerhouse? Feel free to enlighten me.

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Originally Posted by DarrinS

I don't understand how we suppposedly destroyed the economy of Mexico. So, at some point in history Mexico was an economic powerhouse? Feel free to enlighten me.

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is this the teach me the history of another country routine because i'd rather just move on about working with generalizations ?

can we narrow it down to a specific time period? the porfiriato, post lazaro cardenas, the emergence of the technocrats, neoliberalism, the world bank and the international monetary fund, the emergence of maquiladoras, NAFTA, the end of the agrarian economy and the rise of the narcotic industry?

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Originally Posted by rjv

is this the teach me the history of another country routine because i'd rather just move on about working with generalizations ?

can we narrow it down to a specific time period? the porfiriato, post lazaro cardenas, the emergence of the technocrats, neoliberalism, the world bank and the international monetary fund, the emergence of maquiladoras, NAFTA, the end of the agrarian economy and the rise of the narcotic industry?

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I'm no expert on the economy of Mexico. All I know is that a manufacturing company I worked for in the early 90's closed shop and moved to Mexico because of NAFTA. In this instance, we lost jobs and they gained jobs.

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Originally Posted by DarrinS

I'm no expert on the economy of Mexico. All I know is that a manufacturing company I worked for in the early 90's closed shop and moved to Mexico because of NAFTA. In this instance, we lost jobs and they gained jobs.

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i have no doubt your company did this and jobs were lost. however, there are many bad assumptions made regarding the impact that NAFTA had for mexico's labor force. unemployment rates are actually higher in mexico since NAFTA and those jobs that have been migrated to mexico's US owned maquiladoras average a daily (not hourly) wage of 7.00.

peasant agriculture has been wiped out by the arrival of agri-business and the lifting of restrictions on the sale of peasant land. industrial employment has been devastated by the closure of hundreds of plants unable to compete with the transnationals under the new trade laws. and peasants and workers displaced have headed north in greater numbers. before NAFTA, illegals came mainly from four or five mexican states and a limited number of mostly rural municipalities. since NAFTA, migrants have originated in all mexican states, practically all municipalities, and cities as well as towns and villages.

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Originally Posted by nkdlunch

motherfuckers. I love Arizona Ice Tea and now I'm gonna have to boycott that shit. Anybody know other non-arizona options?

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Arizona Ice Tea is not made in Arizona.

If you want to boycott something from Arizona, boycott blue hairs.

No undocumented Democrat is illegal! VIVA LA RAZA!!!!!!!

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Originally Posted by hope4dopes

No undocumented Democrat is illegal! VIVA LA RAZA!!!!!!!

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you're an idiot.

so if we play the suns the next round, do we not go to the games?

Damn, people jumped to conclusions without reading the bill. So many people think that it states that cops can pull people over only because they suspect that said people are illegal immigrants.

This bill is just the state form of a federal law. If people have problems with it, they should instead complain about the law in general.

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Originally Posted by DarrinS

I don't understand how we suppposedly destroyed the economy of Mexico. So, at some point in history Mexico was an economic powerhouse? Feel free to enlighten me.

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Sure, I know of one example. NAFTA flooded the Mexican market with cheap corn and corn products, forcing a shitload of Mexican farmers out of work and helping to kill off Mexico's ability to produce its own corn. Where do those farmers go for work? How does Mexico make its own corn if there's a shock to the American corn market? I'm not expert either, btw, but that does strike me as a shitty situation that could have implications on illegal Immigration.

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Originally Posted by redzero

Damn, people jumped to conclusions without reading the bill. So many people think that it states that cops can pull people over only because they suspect that said people are illegal immigrants.

This bill is just the state form of a federal law. If people have problems with it, they should instead complain about the law in general.

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The people that are complaining don't care what the bill says, what they're complaining about is about is American citizens doing anything that helps stop illegal aliens from flooding across the border, or anyone that shines the light on the complicity of the political and bussiness classes in the flow of illegals.

Also, they are afraid of the results this bill will bear.If Arizona shows how easy it is to stem the flow of illegals it may just catch on.

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Originally Posted by redzero

Damn, people jumped to conclusions without reading the bill. So many people think that it states that cops can pull people over only because they suspect that said people are illegal immigrants.

This bill is just the state form of a federal law. If people have problems with it, they should instead complain about the law in general.

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actually the bill states something like "during a legal exercise" or some shit like that. which the right keeps saying, "well they're already being pulled over, or doing something wrong" but how many gung-ho sheriff's will use that as an excuse to pull more people over?

also, it shouldn't be the job of local pd's and the like to check immigration status. that's what we have a border patrol for.

this law just leaves so many ways of interpretation open that it's dangerous.

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Originally Posted by hope4dopes

The people that are complaining don't care what the bill says, what they're complaining about is about is American citizens doing anything that helps stop illegal aliens from flooding across the border, or anyone that shines the light on the complicity of the political and bussiness classes in the flow of illegals.

Also, they are afraid of the results this bill will bear.If Arizona shows how easy it is to stem the flow of illegals it may just catch on.

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I'm a conservative and I don't like this law because it's impractical and it will cause a certain group of American citizens to be harrassed based on "reasonable suspicion", whatever the fuck that means.

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Originally Posted by word

Arizona Ice Tea is not made in Arizona.

If you want to boycott something from Arizona, boycott blue hairs.

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This vile beverage is made in New York.

Honestly Darrin do you think the state of Arizona or any other state, could ever write any bill that attempted to stop illegal aliens, and the federal goverment would approve of it? The Arizona bill is not the issue, the issue is anyone trying to do anything to stop the agenda.
splitting legal hairs is a canard.

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Originally Posted by DarrinS

I'm a conservative and I don't like this law because it's impractical and it will cause a certain group of American citizens to be harrassed based on "reasonable suspicion", whatever the fuck that means.

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I sincerely hope the Obama regime hassels the shit out of Arizona, I hope Arizona fights back I hope the ACLU and the Justice Department bring down the iron heel, I hope Obama comes out with some more of his racist sophmoric slander against the people of Arizona.
In the end it will put J.D. Hayworth in office, and it will drive another million people into the swelling numbers of people who want this nut job out of power.

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Originally Posted by Crookshanks

The first thing a policeman does after pulling someone over is ask for their license, registration, and proof of insurance. Do you think you could get away with refusing? So how is this any different? Do you honestly think the police are just going to pull a car over for no real reason just because the driver is hispanic?

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No. I'm sure those lovely Alamo Heights cops that pulled me over saying "I FIT THE DESCRIPTION" weren't pulling me over because I was hispanic. No, never.

I wish you could go through a day in some brown shoes.

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I've never been arrested, but don't they always check your ID when you are? So again, what's different about this law?

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ID is not proof of citizenship. Birth Certificates and Passports are. Do you carry those everywhere?

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I really don't get all the uproar. Of course, maybe it's just the stupid people like the ones at MSNBC who had this on the bottom of the screen:

Arizona law makes it a crime to be an illegal immigrant

Well duh - doesn't the word "illegal" denote something criminal? This is just more bitching from the PC crowd, and those who think we should keep our borders open so anyone can come over.

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I never want to see a post from you bitching about the prices of any good or service after this post.

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Originally Posted by hope4dopes

I sincerely hope the Obama regime hassels the shit out of Arizona, I hope Arizona fights back I hope the ACLU and the Justice Department bring down the iron heel, I hope Obama comes out with some more of his racist sophmoric slander against the people of Arizona.
In the end it will put J.D. Hayworth in office, and it will drive another million people into the swelling numbers of people who want this nut job out of power.

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nut job?

now that's hyperbole.