You don't know micca. He hasn't even gotten warmed up..
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You don't know micca. He hasn't even gotten warmed up..
Just backing you and rjv up, NAFTA significantly reduced or eliminated what had at the time been sky-high tariffs on foreign goods (food, cars, tech, media, etc) coming into MX. There were definitely short-term gains for low-skill MX workers when large amounts of manufacturing was shipped down there, but offsetting this gain was the fact that a lot of Mexican manufacturers didn't have the finances (dollar-to-peso trade value worked against them) or technology to compete and subsequently crashed. This is why illegal immigration began to steadily rise in the mid-90's.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stringer_Bell
When US companies realized they could manufacture things in China for a fraction of the cost of doing it in MX, that was the nail in the coffin for a huge swath of low-skill Mexican workers, and illegal immigration spiked.
The problem the US finds itself in is that the MX government has no incentive to keep their citizens in the country. They know they can offer cheap and ineffective public education to provincial (in a literal sense) Mexicans, and see huge returns when these same unskilled folks go to the US, get jobs, and start sending money to their families back home. For the MX government, it's the equivalent of free money.
So how do we stop illegal immigration? The drug war has already shown that anything can be smuggled into this country, our constitution will never allow for the sorts of draconian measures AZ is trying to take, and our economy can only be disrupted if we stringently enforce immigration laws at the level of employment because too many businesses have grown accustomed to saving money by hiring illegals.
The only solution I see -- which will doubtlessly be unpopular -- can only take place at the federal level, and that is to give major tax incentives to businesses who a) can prove they hire US citizens exclusively, and; b) who invest in MX manufacturing. This way we can reduce demand for workers on our end, and increase demand for workers in MX. Furthermore, as a Mexican, I think steady capitol investment in MX would have the same effect as the Porfiriato did, in that it would develop Mexican infrastructure and the rule of law in a way our do-nothing government couldn't do by itself.
Going further, I think the US might even benefit from subsidizing free US-administered schools that operate within MX in order to create a higher number of highly-skilled Mexican entrepreneurs who are sympathetic to trade with the US while being intelligent enough to capitalize on Mexico's rich natural resources. The more entrepreneurs we can create down there, the sooner the oligarchic political landscape of Mexico will change.
All to say: I don't think there's a quick fix.
Jesus, I'm long-winded. Sorry.
"There were definitely short-term gains for low-skill MX workers when large amounts of manufacturing was shipped down there"
... and then the mfrs moved on to China, leaving the MXs without work, so they headed for USA.
Also, the US shipping cheap tax-payer subsidized corn to MX destroyed the meager livelihoods of subsistence MX farmers, who then headed north by the 1000s or Ms.
And then when the Wall St commodities(corn) speculators got in the game, the price of corn (tortillas) priced it way beyond many MX means.
When corps are pushing globalism, we know it has nothing to do with benefits for anybody except those corps.
While I don't disagree that corporations are capable of pure evil, they are only as powerful as a government will allow them to become. I think MX, as it is today, is already run by corporations and is as evil as can be. If these same corporations (along with an influx of new ones and judicious investment by the US government), are able to create a dependable "mission critical" infrastructure in the country, other businesses will have an opportunity to capitalize on this and slowly begin to grow. If enough of these businesses are created, quality of life and education will begin to rise and -- ideally -- better Mexicans will run for office and better Mexicans will vote them in. At that point, if corporations are still behaving badly (and they will be), there will at least be a hope that they will be better-regulated.Quote:
Originally Posted by boutons_deux
Our experience in this country shows how clever and slippery corporations are, and how resistant to regulation they are -- this in a country with a fair amount of education and economic vitality. Now imagine how utterly powerless Mexicans are currently and tell me they'd be worse off with better education and infrastructure.
[QUOTE=MannyIsGod;4292814]Well maybe you did fit the description of a suspect - you have no idea what the police are dealing with at any given time.Quote:
No. I'm sure those lovely Alamo Heights cops that pulled me over saying "I FIT THE DESCRIPTION" weren't pulling me over because I was hispanic. No, never.
I have several pairs of lovely brown shoes that I wear quite frequently! :lolQuote:
I wish you could go through a day in some brown shoes.
No - but I'm white and a citizen. However, they don't say you have to be a citizen, you just have to prove you're here legally - which means a visa or green card - which I understand people should carry with them at all times. As a side note - if the law was being enforced, the only people with a drivers license should be citizens, or people here legally. Which means a drivers license would be sufficient ID.Quote:
ID is not proof of citizenship. Birth Certificates and Passports are. Do you carry those everywhere?
I read an article a few months back that said actual labor costs weren't a significant percentage of the final price of a product. For example, they said a company could raise the wages of farm workers to a decent wage, and the cost of a head of lettuce would increase by less than 5 cents. That doesn't sound too bad to me.Quote:
I never want to see a post from you bitching about the prices of any good or service after this post.
That's 5 cents that could go (or would no longer go) to executive management, and/or 5 cents that could be the difference between a grocery stocking Mexican lettuce or its US-grown equivalent.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crookshanks
[QUOTE=Crookshanks;4293001]how many white people do you think will be asked for their immigration papers?Quote:
Originally Posted by MannyIsGod
wow. just wow. all of that went over your head eh?
as in by just being dark skinned? laws that are this open for interpretation leave room for error. it's sad that you're okay with the idea that native born citizens should be harassed just because some people can't stay competitive with undocumented immigrants.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crookshanks
do you really think racism is a joke?Quote:
Originally Posted by Crookshanks
yes, but i'm brown and a citizen. unless your family landed at st.augustine then my family has been here longer than yours. however since i "look" like i could possibly be an undocumented immigrant, does that mean that i should walk around with my birth certificate, social security number, passport, AND drivers license at ALL times? even people here illegally can get a drivers license, let me give you an example. mikail from the ukraine, is here as a engineering student, gets a proper license while at UT, but over stays his VISA by a few months, his license however is still valid. so its not like littly juany border jumper is the only one who can get a fake. what about native born citizens who don't own an id? what if my id isn't on me when an officer walks up to me at the park?Quote:
Originally Posted by Crookshanks
this law is too open ended.
where are all the so-called anti-big govt repubs who want to decry this invasion of civil liberties?
Still think it's much ado about nothing. Now, if there are a spate of DOCUMENTED abuses as a result of this law, then I'll rethink my opinion.
Side note: Gov Brewer has received a 16 point bump her approval rating. 70% of people in Arizona and 60% of people in other states approve of this bill - so it looks like most of you are in the minority.
So to speak.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crookshanks
Arizona Sheriff Says He Won’t Enforce New ‘Racist’ Anti-Immigration Law
http://thinkprogress.org/2010/04/28/...izona-sheriff/
Wait til the lawyers pile on the PD's for harassment of citizens and racial profiling, and tax payers get stuck with 100s of $K for defending the PDs.
Solution: fire a bunch more firefighters, teachers, 50 kids/class, close some schools, and pay the lawyers.
lolQuote:
Originally Posted by admiralsnackbar
I'm gonna rob me some dirty mehicans in Arizona and their ain't shit they can do about it now...hell, sex slaves anyone?
..but, but, the Arizona police can't stop you solely to ask for your papers...it's in the law! Read the law! :rolleyes
Nevermind the numerous studies that show that the color of your skin has everything to do with how many times police 'innocently' pull you over, or harass you on the streets because you are in the 'wrong neighborhood'...see, white folks don't understand racism and racial harassment because they don't suffer through racism and harassement...
Another stunning aspect of the Arizona law that wing-nut radio pundits forget to mention is the clause, unheard of before, that takes resources away from law enforcement, schools, hospitals, etc...etc...etc...and puts it into enforcement of this law above all others...
TMPQuote:
A clause of the bill, signed last week by Governor Jan Brewer, allows Arizona citizens to file suit against any government entity that "adopts or implements a policy or practice that limits or restricts the enforcement of federal immigration laws to less than the full extent permitted by federal law."
In other words, Arizonans can sue government entities, state or local, if they believe those entities aren't fully enforcing the law -- including, of course, this new law itself. The government could be on the hook for penalties as high as $5000 per day.
That kind of explicit permission to sue the government for not enforcing the law is almost unheard of, according to Mark Miller, a professor at the University of Arizona Law School. "This kind of ... private right of action for an executive decision," -- that is, a law enforcement policy adopted by the government -- "is to my knowledge completely unknown, and to my mind, stunning," Miller told TPMmuckraker.
This is stunning, all resources in Arizona have to go to enforcing the new immigration law first or the govt. can get sued...
When the 'crime' is being an illegal person, how do you know who to stop and who you don't stop?Quote:
Originally Posted by Crookshanks
Do you carry a visa or a green card? Oh wait, you're a citizen, you don't even have one of those. You have a birth certificate. Do you carry that one with you around?Quote:
Originally Posted by Crookshanks
Wrong. You don't need to be a citizen or a lawful resident to obtain a driver license in some states, merely prove you reside on the state (NC being one of those IIRC). Furthermore, you can legally drive with an international driver permit, which is recognized by the United States as a valid permit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crookshanks
Arizona wing-nut world versus real world...
I object to this video using the Beatles as their ending music. If I was Paul McCartney I'd be spinning in my grave right now!Quote:
Originally Posted by Nbadan
So, I'm guessing illegal immigrants that beat an effigy pinata of the Arizona Governor will be held as patriotic while Tea Party Members protesting the socialist/ruinous policies of the Obama administration will continue to be called subversive.
Only in Obamerica.
According to Fox News, the Tea Party protestors are patriotic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yonivore
Question, have any illegal immigrants beat an effigy pinata of the Arizona governor?
'scuse me, illegal immigrant supporters; I have no idea if they are here legally.Quote:
Originally Posted by Duff McCartney
Don’t Look To MSM For Honest Coverage Of Arizona
We'll see if Obama finds this as unpatriotic as Tea Party dissent.
I don't look to the mainstream media for anything. And there's nothing new about swastikas anyway. The Tea Party protesters use swastikas as well and call Obama Hitler as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yonivore
Are you as outraged as the person who wrote the article is about the use of swastikas?
The question is, is the left as outraged about this as they pretended to be about Tea Party Protesters?Quote:
Originally Posted by Duff McCartney
That wasn't my question at all. My question is are you outraged that Tea Party Protestors are holding up swastikas and images of Obama/Hitler just like the guy who wrote the article you linked to is outraged that the anti-Arizona immigration law protestors are carrying swastikas?Quote:
Originally Posted by Yonivore
What I am is as irrelevant as that you don't look to the mainstream media for anything.
The mainstream media and the administration worked hard to try and make the Tea Party protests into something they weren't.
I expect they'll do exactly the same thing here.
My favorite mainstream media disconnect, so far:
http://sayanythingblog.com/files/201...NBC-Brewer.jpg
"Law makes it a crime to be an illegal alien"