Could it happen here?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by panic giraffe

and honestly you feel like it's okay for the government of certain states to infringe on the rights of its citizens for the sole purpose of tracking down a few people who came her illegally.

---

illegals are not citizens

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Duff McCartney

Oh..isn't that convenient? So now we're placing limits on capitalism?

---

So you are against unions and cartels?

calling someone who you disagree with racist just devalues the true meaning of that word.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by spursncowboys

illegals are not citizens

---

I was referring to myself. are you calling me illegal just because i'm brown?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by spursncowboys

calling someone who you disagree with racist just devalues the true meaning of that word.

---

calling a native born american, former soldier, an illegal based solely on the color of his skin is racist, wouldn't you agree?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by spursncowboys

Are you saying it doesn't happen because you never have seen it? I had a friend who's dad mowed yards and made a good living. He was definitely pushed out because he couldn't compete with the low wages people were offering.

---

he should have made a better product, or sold his customer on his service and English speaking ability. If he had some american ingenuity he would remain competitive and would have grew his business using those same hard working illegals.

what i was stabbing at was how if your skills set isn't even competitive with someone who can effectively communicate to the majority of the population, then you have bigger problems (like finding a new skill set or trade) than the issue of immigration.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by panic giraffe

he should have made a better product, or sold his customer on his service and English speaking ability. If he had some american ingenuity he would remain competitive and would have grew his business using those same hard working illegals.

what i was stabbing at was how if your skills set isn't even competitive with someone who can effectively communicate to the majority of the population, then you have bigger problems (like finding a new skill set or trade) than the issue of immigration.

---

There are over 1 billion people on this planet that make less than a dollar a day.None of them live in latin america.How's about we take oil tankers over to say India and empty it's ghettos, I could find harder, cheaper, labor who'd speak english faster than any mexican in the U.S. hell I could sneak them into Mexico and undercut Mexicans in Mexico, but of course that'd be illegal.
Your asinine idea that the poor have no one to blame but themselves for greedy assholes breaking the laws and hiring illegals, thus driving wages and conditions for all workers down, reminds me of the shortsighted and pig ignorant attitudes that prevade and exemplify Latin America.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by panic giraffe

calling a native born american, former soldier, an illegal based solely on the color of his skin is racist, wouldn't you agree?

---

yeah.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Winehole23

Reminds me of your own semiliterate posturing familiarity with Charles Dickens in these pages, in which you were the butt of the joke:

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/show...6&postcount=60

---

Ahh precious.Are you once again courageously standing up for the manufactured consent of the time, wrapping yourself in the New Yorker and NPR hoping you can pass for intelligent.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by panic giraffe

he should have made a better product, or sold his customer on his service and English speaking ability. If he had some american ingenuity he would remain competitive and would have grew his business using those same hard working illegals.

---

his ethics wouldn't allow him to. I gave you one sentence of how illegal immigration impacted his family directly, and you put him in a little bubble where you can give him some absurd advice. Why are you even assuming he spoke english? douchebag. I try not to namecall here, but this is ridiculous. Anyone who agrees with this law is racist? Your ridunculous assumptions. Get off your high horse. Clinton/Bush/Obama should have done something on a national level. They should have some form of security for the citizens of this state that made the law, which is backed by 70% of their population.

Quote:

---

what i was stabbing at was how if your skills set isn't even competitive with someone who can effectively communicate to the majority of the population, then you have bigger problems (like finding a new skill set or trade) than the issue of immigration.

---

same could be said by all the jobs going over seas. Are you ok with all the jobs going elsewhere because the skills aren't good enough?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by spursncowboys

So you are against unions and cartels?

---

Unions are socialist and communist.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by spursncowboys

illegals are not citizens

---

No one is saying they are dumbass. The arguement against the entire immigration law that passed in Arizona is the constitutionality of pulling people over who simply "look" illegal.

What does an illegal immigrant look like? The law in Arizona makes reference that the cops should have reasonable suspicion, well what does that even mean?

panic giraffe and myself are both brown skin very ethnic looking mexicans I'm assuming. Are we going to be pulled over and asked for proof of residency? I would object very strongly to anyone who asks me for it. I'm sure that's very unconstitutional.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Duff McCartney

Unions are socialist and communist.

---

it's artificial control of the free market. What are you talking about?

Quote:

---

me
illegals are not citizens

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by panic giraffe

are you calling me illegal just because i'm brown?

---

what?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by panic giraffe

I don't know what level of education you have, but I for one, have never had my employment challenged by an undocumented immigrant. if you are a native born american and you mow lawns, pick strawberries, or clean houses etc, for a living then you have bigger issues to battle than the immigration issue.

as far as welfare, it's impossible to get without a social security card or eisn. if you want to prove me wrong go down to a HHS office and try under a assumed name, if you succeed i will retract that statement. we do give anyone insured or not, emergency care, would you rather hospitals ask for your hmo while you were in a coma and just let you die?

as far as prisons, i had a ex who's dad was a drug runner, he was here legally, as soon as he was busted, he was deported and had to serve his time in a mexican prison. if we do that to legal, documented immigrants i can't imagine how we don't do that for illegal ones.

illegals are great. not only are they the backbone of our service/manufacturing industries, but they pay taxes that they will never see a dime back from. the contribute to our social security ponzi scheme, pay gas tax, property taxes, pretty much every tax besides income tax, can't get a refund. generally speaking have children that work harder at education then the average citizen. i just can't see any downside to them, they're just chasing the american dream like the waves of immigrants before them.

no, actually i'm worried about my own civil rights. i'm brown. will i be asked to produce a passport and social security card every time i get pulled over or will my drivers license suffice? will i be pulled over more often at the assumption that i am illegal? my family never crossed the american border except to go for war for this country (and at one point against, but that's how we got here), so why should i have to deal with added interrogation when ever i see a police officer just because some peon redneck lost a roofing contract to a more skilled immigrant?

---

Yours is the most compelling argument so far that I have heard against immigration reform.

But why have immigration laws at all, by your reasoning?

My father was an immigrant. It took years of service and sacrifice to the US to gain citizenship, which he is quite proud of. It does bother him that he is in a position where he is under more of a microscope from organizations like the IRS than his illegal counterparts. Not to mention the fact that there is a bit of a conflict of interested in having people working in a place they have no interest in living in or supporting.

I am with Maddox, I think there isn't a problem as long as the workers are paying taxes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by spursncowboys

it's artificial control of the free market. What are you talking about?

---

Artificial control of the free market? What the fuck are you talking about? Explain how a union, that demands higher wages and will threaten with strikes is "artificially" controlling the free market?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Duff McCartney

Artificial control of the free market? What the fuck are you talking about? Explain how a union, that demands higher wages and will threaten with strikes is "artificially" controlling the free market?

---

I find it laughable that on one hand you support unions, and on the other hand you support the explotation of labor laws, and the ruling classes rape of the workers, just because it's wrapped in a mexican flag.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Duff McCartney

No one is saying they are dumbass. The arguement against the entire immigration law that passed in Arizona is the constitutionality of pulling people over who simply "look" illegal.

What does an illegal immigrant look like? The law in Arizona makes reference that the cops should have reasonable suspicion, well what does that even mean?

panic giraffe and myself are both brown skin very ethnic looking mexicans I'm assuming. Are we going to be pulled over and asked for proof of residency? I would object very strongly to anyone who asks me for it. I'm sure that's very unconstitutional.

---

ding ding ding we have a winner here folks!!!
what surprises me is that all these "keep govt out of my healthcare" types are all for "paper's please"...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hope4dopes

I find it laughable that on one hand you support unions, and on the other hand you support the explotation of labor laws, and the ruling classes rape of the workers, just because it's wrapped in a mexican flag.

---

Where in my two posts calling unions socialists and communists, and then asking for clarification on how they are "artificially" controlling the market with their tactics, is there a clear support for Unions?

Have you not learned anything? I'm an American, and as such, I care only for capitalism and profits.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by spursncowboys

what?

---

that was addressed to hope4dopes, micca or whathaveyou saying "if the american people want 20 million more of you..." like i was an illegal alien.

to which i rightfully called him racist just because he would assume that since i'm of mexican decent and i'm brown that i'm just like 20 million illegal aliens.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by panic giraffe

ding ding ding we have a winner here folks!!!
what surprises me is that all these "keep govt out of my healthcare" types are all for "paper's please"...

---

Well unlike health care....... one of the only jobs of the federal goverment is to protect the borders, which they haven't done.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jacobdrj

Yours is the most compelling argument so far that I have heard against immigration reform.

But why have immigration laws at all, by your reasoning?

My father was an immigrant. It took years of service and sacrifice to the US to gain citizenship, which he is quite proud of. It does bother him that he is in a position where he is under more of a microscope from organizations like the IRS than his illegal counterparts. Not to mention the fact that there is a bit of a conflict of interested in having people working in a place they have no interest in living in or supporting.

I am with Maddox, I think there isn't a problem as long as the workers are paying taxes.

---

actually i'm all for a new way of thinking about citizenship. i'm all for a complete open border, with universal healthcare, free education, social security, basically any service that would lead to MH's post earlier of FDR's 2nd bill of rights....but there's a catch...

minimum two years of service to the country to attain the status of citizen.
if you don't serve, then you're just a tax payer. no vote. nothing. lets see how soon we rush to war when it involves everyone....but that's just a weird fantasy. til then i'm all for a better work visa program.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by panic giraffe

actually i'm all for a new way of thinking about citizenship. i'm all for a complete open border, with universal healthcare, free education, social security, basically any service that would lead to MH's post earlier of FDR's 2nd bill of rights....but there's a catch...

minimum two years of service to the country to attain the status of citizen.
if you don't serve, then you're just a tax payer. no vote. nothing. lets see how soon we rush to war when it involves everyone....but that's just a weird fantasy. til then i'm all for a better work visa program.

---

Communist.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Duff McCartney

Communist.

---

not at all.

all for a free market.

a true free market, the govt should have no say in what i want to buy(food, drinks, liquor, drugs, who cares its my choice), but the ability to tax it as it sees fit based on consumption.


edit note:fuck i wasted post 666 on this shit. damn this thread.

We should have the EXACT same immigration policies as Mexico.