Could it happen here?

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Originally Posted by jacobdrj

True, even in Israel, some students as well as women do not have to serve. And I understand your distinction in that you are not compelled to joint the military except to have 'full' citizenship, where incentive is not compulsion.

I still feel that there is something that may overly militarize the country: would this eventually lead to 'haves' and 'have nots' in this system, should people be voted out of the right to join a service corps?

If it is voluntary, how will this address the issue of the politicians being separate from the citizens they deploy to war?

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how would that system of haves and have-nots be any worse than the current one? except it would be based on experience/national pride and not money or color.

i don't know what you mean by voted out of the right to join. explain please?

politicians would all be experienced citizen-soldiers after one generations time, and the parents/grandparents of another generation of citizen-soldiers. it would be the opposite of mitt romney, or dick cheney, no more war mongering politicians who don't have a personal, not just financial, stake in the war. could you vote your own son or daughter to the battlefield unless you truly believed it was the right thing to do?

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Originally Posted by panic giraffe

i know it is, and never will happen here. it's just my long term dream solution to the immigration issue.

i do however believe that most of this country has the constitution wrong. it was never meant to be a bible or the 1297 version of the magna carta, it's a living fucking document. it's amendable to deal with the problems facing a changing nation. it's the will of the collective people of our nation and should not be seen as the ten commandments, if there is something in it we don't agree with or that needs changing we should not be afraid to do it, that would make our founding fathers happy.

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Clearly you are not aware of the process.

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Originally Posted by Duff McCartney

I know dopes is a proper name for you because not only are you a dope, you spout bullshit that isn't even true.

According to the 2009 HDR this is the percentage of people who live in extreme poverty in Latin America...(less than $1.25/day)

Argentina...4.5%
Bolivia...19.6%
Brazil...5.2%
Colombia..16%
El Salvador...11%
Guatemala...11.7%
Honduras...18.2%

That's not even all the Latin American countries. Stop making baseless claims. I'd say alot of people that live off less than $1 a day live in Latin America.

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The purpose of US immigration is not to alleviate poverty in other countries.

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Originally Posted by word

Clearly you are not aware of the process.

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what do you mean?

it's not like i believe that one person can make these changes.

we control congress(to a degree), they decided what amendments go before a vote. its not like the constitution is written in stone, so what am i not aware of?

or a constitutional convention...

You appeared to be unaware there was a process to do this, implying the constitution could be amended on a 'whim'.

What in the Constitution do you desire to be changed ?

nothing in particular at this time, it was in response to someone saying that the constitution was in place to keep ideas like mine from happening.

back to the subject at hand, does anyone think AZSB1070 or something similar would happen in the great state of texas?

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Originally Posted by jacobdrj

I am aware of that, as that is how my father got his citizenship.

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Props to your father. :toast

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Originally Posted by panic giraffe

back to the subject at hand, does anyone think AZSB1070 or something similar would happen in the great state of texas?

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No.

from my understanding of this law. If someone is under police custody already, only then can police ask their citizenship. I don't see how that can be construed as racist.

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Originally Posted by spursncowboys

from my understanding of this law. If someone is under police custody already, only then can police ask their citizenship. I don't see how that can be construed as racist.

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The way I read it (from the excerpt posted by Crooks upstream), no custody is necessary. Just "lawful contact".

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Originally Posted by Winehole23

The way I read it (from the excerpt posted by Crooks upstream), no custody is necessary. Just "lawful contact".

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If police custody were a necessary precondition, then this law wouldn't be nearly so bad.

Lawful contact would seem to include victims, witnesses . . . heck, even purely consensual, friendly encounters with police officers.

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Originally Posted by Duff McCartney

Is that wrong? I'm sorry but we live in a capitalist economy where profits are more important than wages. If I can make more money by paying an illegal 10 cents an hour than paying a good old American 10 dollars an hour so I can reep higher profits, then damn it it's my right and duty as an American who loves capitalism to do it.

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OK, I have too much catching up to do, I may read the posts after this one (#10) later.

I am all for opening the borders under the following conditions.

1) We eliminate all social welfare programs except for the elderly and handicapped.

Well, that's it. Then the lazy will have to compete in a supply and demand job market where the supply of labor is dramatically increased.

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Originally Posted by Wild Cobra

OK, I have too much catching up to do, I may read the posts after this one (#10) later.

I am all for opening the borders under the following conditions.

1) We eliminate all social welfare programs except for the elderly and handicapped.

Well, that's it. Then the lazy will have to compete in a supply and demand job market where the supply of labor is dramatically increased.

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Social welfare for the elderly and handicapped? You socialist commie...get out of my country and go back to mother Russia.

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Originally Posted by doobs

If police custody were a necessary precondition, then this law wouldn't be nearly so bad.

Lawful contact would seem to include victims, witnesses . . . heck, even purely consensual, friendly encounters with police officers.

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You have 'contact' with law enforcment all the time and aren't aware of it. A cop pulls up behind you at a light late at night, you can bet he's running your plate. They run people plates randomly all the time, at all times of day and night. Further, carrying a valid ID with you has been the law for umpteen fucking years in most states. Is it enforced, no, but it's the law.

What I find funny is 'this law is wrong' because it catches people breaking the law, mentality. And for all those latino's raising hell about it, I'd bet their tune would change if millions of Haitians, legal and illegal, were pouring into LA or San Antonio or Phoenix.

And lets be real about this, there is plenty of racism in the Mexican American community. There are turf wars going on out in LA between blacks and latinos. When blacks start moving into what was primarily latino communities, they become unhinged.

All that 'La Raza' 'reconquista' bullshit is just stupid macho racist crap.

What I would like to see is Mexican Americans be more Mexican American and less Mexican American.

And most are, but a significant portion, particularly in SoCal, are not.

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Originally Posted by panic giraffe

back to the subject at hand, does anyone think AZSB1070 or something similar would happen in the great state of texas?

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I hope TX has something that penalizes the people who employ them, with a higher punishment for paying below what they would pay an american citizen. I hoped they already were allowed to question someones' citizenship. I also hope they have a plan to secure tx's international border and the border to oklahoma.

IDK if it changed or not but a few years ago, TX was the only state where police can stop for no reason. If they had a law in TX, they would have to put that into account when making the wording.

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Originally Posted by word

What I would like to see is Mexican Americans be more Mexican American and less Mexican American.

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What does that even mean? Honestly, and I'm also sure panic giraffe can chime in here too.

I was having this debate with my friend the other day, he was saying I mean you and I we're Mexicans but we act American. As in Mexican heritage but we were born and raised here, but what does that mean?

His response...I don't know what it means to act American.

I eat tortillas with my meals more than I do bread and butter, does that make me more or less American? I prefer mexican pastries over apple pie, does that make me mexican or american?

I don't think anyone really knows what it means to be American. Some might say speaking English but they speak English in England, Australia, and New Zealand...that doesn't really distinguish Americans.

I think that argument is flawed because no one can really define what it really means, and I mean really means to be American. The fact that we're such a melting pot of different cultures makes it impossible to define.

Cops everywhere can stop you for no reason. They're not suppose to but it's called 'probable cause' and 'suspicious behaviour' and 'crossing the center line' and 'not coming to a complete stop' and 'irratic behaviour' and on and on and on....

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Originally Posted by Duff McCartney

What does that even mean? Honestly, and I'm also sure panic giraffe can chime in here too.

I was having this debate with my friend the other day, he was saying I mean you and I we're Mexicans but we act American. As in Mexican heritage but we were born and raised here, but what does that mean?

His response...I don't know what it means to act American.

I eat tortillas with my meals more than I do bread and butter, does that make me more or less American? I prefer mexican pastries over apple pie, does that make me mexican or american?

I don't think anyone really knows what it means to be American. Some might say speaking English but they speak English in England, Australia, and New Zealand...that doesn't really distinguish Americans.

I think that argument is flawed because no one can really define what it really means, and I mean really means to be American. The fact that we're such a melting pot of different cultures makes it impossible to define.

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It means loyalty to nation, not race or country of origin. You're thinking in terms of 'culture'. That's not what I"m talking about. It has nothing, zip, to do with culture.

What it means is, a lot of latino's it seems, want to turn a blind eye to illegal immigration from mexico and latin America because they are 'latino'. This is a racial view to this issue. As I said in another thread, if millions of Haitans began pouring into Arizona and Socal and SA illegally and even legally, latinos would be up in fucking arms. If you don't think so you're either a fool or a liar.

American culture is impossible to define ? American culture permeates the world. It is the most exported 'culture' in the world.

Hollywood, fast food, freeways, blue jeans, rock and roll, baseball, microsoft,
the space shuttle, going to the moon ie some of the best scientists in the world, new york, the grand canyon, D-day, pickup trucks, country western, jazz, hugh hefner, disneyland, Miami beach, LA, New Orleans, NFL, NBA ...muscle cars, chevrolet, apple pie, thanksgiving, college football, Boeing, the Hoover Dam, the Golden Gate Bridge... Vietnam, 911, Kennedy assassination, civil rights, slavery, the American revolution, the Alamo, PARIS FUCKING HILTON...

There is no American culture ?

A culture is made up of history, failures and accomplishments, and the people who make it up. Every country has a culture, including us.

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Originally Posted by word

Cops everywhere can stop you for no reason. They're not suppose to but it's called 'probable cause' and 'suspicious behaviour' and 'crossing the center line' and 'not coming to a complete stop' and 'irratic behaviour' and on and on and on....

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true and i think the texas law i was refering to were for dui's. other states can only stop people if they violated the law. in texas you could get stopped just so the police could see if you were drunk.

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the border to oklahoma.

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Damn Okies! Kick em out!

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Originally Posted by word

Cops everywhere can stop you for no reason. They're not suppose to but it's called 'probable cause' and 'suspicious behaviour' and 'crossing the center line' and 'not coming to a complete stop' and 'irratic behaviour' and on and on and on....

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They can do it, but it has to be able to stand up in court.....this is, supported by physical evidence, witnesses, and such...if the case is weak, its likely to be plead down, sometimes way down..

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What it means is, a lot of latino's it seems, want to turn a blind eye to illegal immigration from mexico and latin America because they are 'latino'. This is a racial view to this issue. As I said in another thread, if millions of Haitans began pouring into Arizona and Socal and SA illegally and even legally, latinos would be up in fucking arms. If you don't think so you're either a fool or a liar.

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Ever hear of Cesar Chavez? A lot of Mexican-decent and even recent immigrants from Mexico-Americans don't want unrestricted immigration either...it kills border salaries for the most menial jobs, which is all the skill sets recent immigrants can offer an employer...

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Originally Posted by Nbadan

Ever hear of Cesar Chavez? A lot of Mexican-decent and even recent immigrants from Mexico-Americans don't want unrestricted immigration either...it kills border salaries for the most menial jobs, which is all the skill sets recent immigrants can offer an employer...

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So why all the uproar ? What's it all about ?