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I'll bet it's the people who wrote the programs that trigger the events. I read something that this was cause by computers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yonivore
Think about it. If you have a large volume of traders using the same triggers... At the computerized internet trading speeds...
me too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yonivore
Just when Wall Street was fussing about congressional oversight and insisting that the 'markets hould be left to their own devices'...said markets rise up and bite them on the butt.
These jerks (Wall street types) set themselves up by letting this crap happen, and then cry persecution when they get regulations that are an attempt (perhaps a ham-handed attempt, but nonetheless an attempt) to prevent this sort of debacle from happening again.
Count on more investigations and regulations...and more bitching about both from the people who are responsible for bringing it on.
The Latest Market Fiasco, brought to you by the same folks who brought you the 1987 meltdown, and the 2007-2008 crash of Depression-era proportions.
I'll place my money on software by thousands on investors using the same triggers. Then if they are smart, they will see if the programmers profited.Quote:
Originally Posted by EVAY
Given the extraordinarily low volume associated with the meltdown on Thursday, the triggers were likely a function of lots of the institutional investors who have automatic required sells if stocks lose x% of their value in y trading time period. It is sort of like the buy-side investors (pension funds, teacher funds, endowment funds, etc.etc) who are forced by their own internal rules to automatically sell if one of their investments falls below a certain bond rating or something. There are similar rules in place for equities, and I would guess that is what got a lot of this started.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Cobra
Given the economic rebound occurring, I would have assumed that this would be seen as a terrific buying opportunity on Friday. The fact that that did not happen leaves me perplexed and very, very nervous, and perhaps agreeing with Bartiromo...some manipulation somewhere.
Maybe so. I've been meaning to look at my mutual funds on a day by day value basis to see if they were affected. Got to locate my password I forgot first. I so hope they weren't on the wrong side of any of this trading.Quote:
Originally Posted by EVAY
Can you imagine day trading and striking gold, only to find out a few days later that the nasdaq is going to nullify your trade
meanwhile goldman sachs will somehow profit mad off this
I had, with my own exquisite sense of timing, tried to get out of some funds I was in at the end of March. They have put up 'gates', however, which means that they will not be available until the end of the next quarter, at least. I fear that I am screwed beyond belief. I don't have the guts to look just yet, because I can't control it. I am in the awful position of having to hope for a significant rebound from people who seem intent on screwing us over.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Cobra
I have a feeling I will be doing a major recalibration of my allotments around August or September. Next quarter earnings expectations with expected 2011 tax hikes...Quote:
Originally Posted by EVAY
yeah, and add re-regulation to the inevitable tax hikes... and likely inflation beginning to be read into the market by the latter part of this year (I don't mean that we will have inflationary problems by then, but I bet you the market starts discounting it a future basis by the last part of this year)...buckle up, cowboys.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Cobra
And then of course, Europe...
Nullification appears to have preceded both explanation and indeed any basic understanding of the problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cant_Be_Faded
What was the very compelling fucking reason cited for nullifying the trades in the first place? The curbs didn't go in fast enough? The market dropped too fast? What?
Anyone, please?
No doubt there was an element of that early on, but the market thinned out considerably after a brief surge of panic selling.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Cobra
The NYT piece linked upstream references low volume anomalies...
(presumably, at very low trading volumes, massive -- and probably even merely large -- trades distort the market relatively more. )
I think of it like playing an online game where someone or some people gain an unfair advantage due to a malfunction that they use (perhaps even accidentally) against other players. For example...if I came across a glitch that allowed me to beat up people with invincibility or supreme accuracy and rise to the top of the leader boards - Admins would check it out and roll back stats because I had an unfair advantage. Does that make sense? At least that's how I understand why they'd take back profits gained during a glitch.Quote:
Originally Posted by Winehole23
The NYT article mentions that nullification of trades takes place on a somewhat routine basis, but usually applies to single trades. Nullifying all the trades in the time window, seems to be the novelty here.
Ohhhhhhh, ALL trades? That's fucked lol
I can see that. Highly sophisticated electronic trading desks would appear to have the clear advantage in volatile sessions, just as they do in normal ones. One apparent difference is, in the volatile session the fortunes to be made (and lost) are much larger.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stringer_Bell
So they shut down the big boy poker party, after the big boy poker party scared off all the other players. There's gonna be a few pissed off players.
But probably, more grateful ones. Pension and retirement funds and what not.
Anyone with a 401k.
Until Monday, at least.
Quote:
Whoops, we're already there.
Those low trading volumes are the reason for the volatility in 2008 and 2009 from what I am given to understand.Quote:
Originally Posted by Winehole23
Speaking of today... the euro rescue package sent markets there up by close to 5-10% in one day.Quote:
Originally Posted by Winehole23
The US markets are following suit so far with the DJIA up about 4% for the day so far.
Wheeeeeee!
Insiders in Europe, including employee of Wall St firms in Europe, certainly passed this rescue pkg info to Wall St before opening. Occam's Razor.
One trillion dollars. How timely.Quote:
Originally Posted by RandomGuy
Just curious, how much is the USA on the hook for through the IMF? (The IMF portion of the bailout is $250B, according to one story this morning)