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At that point it wouldn't have taken a war, just a little continuity. Whatever.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckD
I'm not saying that any President has gotten Afghanistan RIGHT I'm just saying at this point it is fucking hopeless. But Obama OWNS this one. He said BushII fought the wrong war. Maybe he was right. At least that one was winnable. The government we will leave in Iraq is a thousand times better than Sadaam Hussein. The jury is still out on Obamas legacy in Afghanistan.
don't sweat it. people only questioned the general because he was appointed by the guy that lied to you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yonivore
Funny -- and more than a bit ironic -- you cling to that fallacy when we've been subjected to the most dishonest administration in recent memory, for the past 18 months.Quote:
Originally Posted by clambake
Pick one major Obama initiative that isn't based on a whopper of a lie.
you don't care about lies. remember?Quote:
Originally Posted by Yonivore
So....you can't.Quote:
Originally Posted by clambake
he hasn't lied about anything. he "decides". he's the new "decider".Quote:
Originally Posted by Yonivore
that use to turn you on. what happened?
Simply stated, there is no doubt that Saddam Hussein now has weapons of mass destruction.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yonivore
he should be happy that there's one less black guy to run into at the pumps. lol
Funny how Sadaam's carefully orchestrated fabric of lies he created to project him as a "major world power" ended up biting him in the ass.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChumpDumper
Our intelligence community believed him.
As did most of the world.Quote:
Originally Posted by CosmicCowboy
The intelligence community had doubts. Cheney said there was no doubt.Quote:
Originally Posted by CosmicCowboy
That was a whopper of a lie.
actually, it was deliberately misleading.
Are you sure the administration didn't misread that? I thought the polls said Obama needed his ass kicked.Quote:
Originally Posted by CosmicCowboy
The same world that gave the US the middle finger when Powell made his presentation in the UN?Quote:
Originally Posted by Yonivore
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...thrax-vial.jpg
That's some revisionist history right there, yoni...
The UN? The same UN that can't decide if Iran is really trying to get nukes?Quote:
Originally Posted by ElNono
:lmao
We can argue wether the UN is good/bad/worthless, etc. It's irrelevant to the point made.Quote:
Originally Posted by CosmicCowboy
That's the forum where 'the rest of the world' gets together to discuss foreign affairs, and where 'the rest of the world' didn't agree with the US that Iraq had WMD...
Coincidentally, they were right...
"Our intelligence community believed him."
bullshit. There were serious doubts, all of which were suppressed to build the case to grab the oil. Robert Gates in the early 80s starting the politicizing efforts in the CIA to present/select the "facts" that fit the political objectives, rather than presenting all facts and let the the politicians decide.
There were 60 oil contracts being negotiated by Saddam with France, Russia, China, etc, but not one contract with UK or US, who were pointedly excluded for obvious reasons. The US/UK started a war to grab the oil they were being excluded from.
Powell's close aides knew he was going to the UN will lies about mobile biological weapons labs.
Without the Repugs and neo-c*nts sexing up the case as the Brits said, there would have been no war.
btw, dubya pulled out the weapons inspectors so he could start the war. They weren't kicked out by Saddam.
We've been over this many times. But you fucking right-wingers will never admit that you were duped into promoting and still into justifying a war of choice to grab the oil.
And shall we mention had badly the Repugs fucked up their expectations of the US invaders as welcomed heroes, or how badly the Repugs fucked up the management of both their wars before dumping them on Magic Negro?
Afghanistan is a hellhole, not even a country, just some land with borders. I doubt Magic Negro has the balls to go against the ever-self-enriching MIC and stop the war.
Oh yeah. We sure grabbed that oil. Last I heard Iraq was still in charge of 100% of their oil and we are pulling out.Quote:
Originally Posted by boutons_deux
What kind of altered universe do you and Manny live in?
"We sure grabbed that oil."
That was the objective, dubya and dickhead fucked up that up. The idea that Bremer was pushing, with all the oilcos, was production sharing arrangements, which favor the oilcos more, not leasing arrangements, which are used everywhere else.
did you not hear about a FOIA request that produced docs the dickhead's secret National Energy Policy group (of unknown oilco, etc execs) had meetings with maps of Iraq showing the oil and exploration fields? In spring 2001, before WTC, and 2 years before dickhead invaded?
dickhead lied for years trying to justify his bullshit resource grab by trying to tie Saddam to WTC.
And has anybody forgotten that dubya's first commerce secretary was astonished to hear dubya talking about Iraq in his very first cabinet meeting?
Invading Iraq for oil was a Repug/neo-c*nt dream from the 1990s.
It's always good to be reminded that the elected civilian leadership is in charge and not the military.
Politicians are in charge of the military.
Elected civilian leadership has a warm and fuzzy feeling though.
"Politicians are in charge of the military"
The capitalists and corps, esp the MIC, are in charge of the politicians.
Quote:
Originally Posted by boutons_deux
why would anyone watch a harry reid utube, darrin?
Quote:
Originally Posted by clambake
Well, if you'd rather read than watch video.
"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line."
--President Bill Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998
"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program."
--President Bill Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998
"Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face."
--Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998
"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983."
--Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998
"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs."
Letter to President Clinton, signed by:
-- Democratic Senators Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, and others, Oct. 9, 1998
"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."
-Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998
"Hussein has ... chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies."
-- Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999
"There is no doubt that ... Saddam Hussein has reinvigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies."
Letter to President Bush, Signed by:
-- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), and others, Dec 5, 2001
"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandate of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and th! e means of delivering them."
-- Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002
"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country."
-- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002
"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power."
-- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002
"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction."
-- Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002
"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..."
-- Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002
"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force -- if necessary -- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security."
-- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002
"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years ... We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction."
-- Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002
"He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do"
-- Rep. Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002
"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members ... It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."
-- Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002
"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction."
-- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), Dec. 8, 2002
"Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction ... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real..."
-- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003