Justice Department Files Suit Against Arizona Immigration Law

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Originally Posted by ElNono

How about people that run a red light, and have a driver's license that read 'Temporary Immigration Status' on them (I had one of those up to about 6 months ago). Do they get a ticket or do they get held?

You know, the cop's computer doesn't link to the immigration system.

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It was something that indicated you were here legally though, wasn't it?

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Originally Posted by CosmicCowboy

It's not? You were required by law to have a birth certificate and social security number...You still have the opportunity to prove citizenship, but not having anything certainly establishes reasonable suspicion.

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Do you carry your birth certificate and SS card with you?

I never have. I never considered it a good idea, nor am I unaware of any law that requires me to do so. Suggesting that anyone who fails to present SS or birth certificate to LE at any lawful stop is inviting detention is outrageous, unfair and un-American to my mind.

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Originally Posted by ElNono

How about people that run a red light, and have a driver's license that read 'Temporary Immigration Status' on them (I had one of those up to about 6 months ago). Do they get a ticket or do they get held?

You know, the cop's computer doesn't link to the immigration system.

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Are you telling me you had a drivers license whose expiration date wasn't the same as the expiration date of your green card? If that was the case, somebody screwed up.

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Originally Posted by Wild Cobra

It was something that indicated you were here legally though, wasn't it?

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Not really, just that I had a temporary residency as opposed to a permanent residency like I have now.

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Originally Posted by Winehole23

Do you carry your birth certificate and SS card with you?

I never have. I never considered it a good idea, nor am I unaware of any law that requires me to do so. Suggesting that anyone who fails to present SS or birth certificate to LE at any lawful stop is inviting detention is outrageous, unfair and un-American to my mind.

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No, I carry a drivers license which proves I am a citizen. If you don't drive the state has what they call "ID Cards" which prove the same thing and can be used for legal identification. If I didn't have that I would damn sure carry SOMETHING to prove I was a citizen.

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Originally Posted by CosmicCowboy

Are you telling me you had a drivers license whose expiration date wasn't the same as the expiration date of your green card? If that was the case, somebody screwed up.

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Driver licenses are normally granted for 6 months past the green card expiration date, simply because it normally takes that long to obtain a new green card, which is mandatory to renew your driver's license.

But regardless of that, if the police is supposed to be asking for my green card or proof of citizenship, then he's indeed performing the duties of immigration law.

So what is it, ticket or held?

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Originally Posted by Winehole23

To say nothing at all of the international dimension of the furore. The AZ law could be taken as an untoward imposition on the US's foreign policy.

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Foreign policy <> domestic laws.

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Originally Posted by CosmicCowboy

No, I carry a drivers license which proves I am a citizen.

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Except that driver licenses are no proof of citizenship or even lawful immigration status...

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Originally Posted by Winehole23

Never want to live in that country. It's not the one I grew up in.

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You better not travel out of our country then. It's done everywhere else in the world (even Mexico, where their president is calling the Arizona law "racist").

I guess its racist if I go to Mexico and the Federales ask for my identification too, huh?

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Originally Posted by ElNono

Driver licenses are normally granted for 6 months past the green card expiration date, simply because it normally takes that long to obtain a new green card, which is mandatory to renew your driver's license.

But regardless of that, if the police is supposed to be asking for my green card or proof of citizenship, then he's indeed performing the duties of immigration law.

So what is it, ticket or held?

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Considering that half the illegals in the country are here from overstating their green cards I would hold you ass till the feds verified you were OK...:lol

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Originally Posted by Winehole23

Do you carry your birth certificate and SS card with you?

I never have. I never considered it a good idea, nor am I unaware of any law that requires me to do so. Suggesting that anyone who fails to present SS or birth certificate to LE at any lawful stop is inviting detention is outrageous, unfair and un-American to my mind.

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Quit being so dense. A driver's license satisfies the requirement.

^^^Please clarify: what does "<>" mean?

That state laws trump the prerogative of the superior sovereign to conduct foreign policy?

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Originally Posted by ElNono

Except that driver licenses are no proof of citizenship or even lawful immigration status...

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Actually, those of us that are born here have to provide a birth certificate to get an unrestricted license.

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Originally Posted by Aggie Hoopsfan

Quit being so dense. A driver's license satisfies the requirement.

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I'm not so sure about that. How do driving privileges relate to immigration status?

I think it's pretty easy to understand.

The given foreign policy of a given presidential administration does not necessarily equate to laws, particularly in our country.

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Originally Posted by Aggie Hoopsfan

You better not travel out of our country then. It's done everywhere else in the world (even Mexico, where their president is calling the Arizona law "racist").

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I don't give a damn what they do elsewhere. That doesn't make it proper for us.

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Originally Posted by ElNono

Not really, just that I had a temporary residency as opposed to a permanent residency like I have now.

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Temporary residency is still legal.

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Originally Posted by ElNono

Not really, just that I had a temporary residency as opposed to a permanent residency like I have now.

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Temporary residency is still legal. Such a card disallows them to have probable cause unless it's expired.

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Originally Posted by CosmicCowboy

Holder will definitely lose at the first trial simply because his legal argument is so vapid and weak. This whole charade is political and not legal. Unfortunately, however, he may prevail on the first appeal. Arizona falls in the 9th District which is notorious for writing law instead of ruling on law...Then, the lower court decision will finally be confirmed when it goes to the Supreme Court.

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and how has that supreme court been leaning lately?

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Originally Posted by rjv

and how has that supreme court been leaning lately?

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Still 5-4 interpreting the law and not judicial activist on most issues. Kagan won't change that.

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Originally Posted by CosmicCowboy

Actually, those of us that are born here have to provide a birth certificate to get an unrestricted license.

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or a passport

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Originally Posted by rjv

or a passport

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Everything still tracks back to the birth certificate. You have to have the birth certificate to get the passport.

This will be the case that ultimately leads to National ID cards. Just listen to yourselves...

Book it.

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Originally Posted by CosmicCowboy

Still 5-4 interpreting the law and not judicial activist on most issues. Kagan won't change that.

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the biggest problem with the obligation to investigate that it places on state and local officials is that are ambiguous and sometimes no signs of immigration status that could give rise to 'reasonable suspicion'. that will be true regardless of whether the officials act on specific grounds or on the basis of a hunch gathered from less specific grounds. whatever one thinks of how "reasonable suspicion" has been defined in the federal 4th amendment context, its use in the arizona law is problematic.

if you say it is 5-4 in favor of the law as it stands how will they see that the precedent of terry v. ohio meets the standard of reasonable suspicion here?

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Originally Posted by CosmicCowboy

They are stopped/detained for State law violations.

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That wasn't what the law said. It said during any lawful contact, law enforcement officials have to demand to see ID from anyone they suspect of being illegal.

Did they change it?

Do you have a new text?