A Shadow of Duncan

A Shadow of Duncan
By Kris Rivenburgh
FullSportPress.com


Gregg Popovich said nobody on the team came to play playoff basketball…except Tim Duncan. Duncan may have had a big game statistically, but he didn’t play inspired basketball either.

Duncan’s game of today is a far cry from how he used to play. Duncan’s past play was skillful, dominant, and assertive all in one. In Game 4, he was beat to a rebound by Luke Ridnour after lazily walking over to collect it. Throughout the series, he has passed up opportunities to take the ball strong to the hoop – resorting to floaters, finger rolls, and short jumpers instead. Weren’t you waiting for a huge dunk over Nick Collison after he up-faked Danny Fortson? Yeah, well those don’t happen anymore.

Going to Duncan one-on-one in the low post is no longer a gimme. It’s a belabored point. Sometimes, he just jab steps and pump fakes until he jacks up a shot. Sometimes he waits for the double team, so he can pass. Others, he drives to the paint and chunks up a one-handed eight footer. Most often he’s seeking to create contact instead of actually trying to make the basket.

Gone is the intricate footwork that left defenders befuddled and drew comparisons to Hakeem Olajuwon. When is the last time you saw him switch things up and go to his left hand? Where is the guy that used to posterize other centers and power forwards on a regular basis?

That player is dead. The new T.D. doesn’t do that sort of stuff anymore. He’s still worried about getting hurt again - so now, he doesn’t jump. I always knew he wasn’t the “athletic” type of power forward, but since when does Tim have the spring of Dikembe Mutombo? Rather than snaring reachable rebounds, he elects to try to tip them out of the opponents’ grasp to himself. Blocking shots isn’t really his forte anymore, either. Instead of meeting driving opponents at the summit, Tim usually concedes baskets that close now.

His precision footwork in the low block has morphed into ramming defenders within seven feet of the basket and tossing up his right handed shot. Through four games against Seattle, Duncan has failed to prove he can dominate any of their big men over the course of a game. He’s shown he can draw fouls on them. He’s gotten a few angled bank shots on them, in addition to a few right handed hooks. But, he has not dominated anyone.

There is no variety in his game like there was in 2003 when he went head to head with Shaquille O’Neal. The dominance he showed in 1998 versus Karl Malone is also gone. The overall package displayed in the championship clinching game versus Kenyon Martin is missing several components.

I’m under the impression experience has made Tim Duncan worse. The craftiness with which he uses to draw fouls has turned into a liability. His agility and good hands have given him a false sense of confidence into underestimating the opposition. Injuries can scare him into playing different – even if he is no longer injured. Past playoff disasters refresh in his mind and are now making him wonder if this Seattle series will be like an old Lakers’ series.

Don’t fool yourself into thinking the Spurs hold Tim Duncan, the ace, in the 2005 playoffs. He can average 20 points through put backs, free throws, and a couple of bank shots, easily. The Spurs power forward is playing similar to his lackluster performances against the O’Neal anchored Lakers, where he could muster no efficient offense. Had Manu Ginobili not played the role of MVP against the Nuggets, the Spurs could have very conceivably found themselves in a dangerous game 7 duel.

As it stands now, the Spurs have enough to douse a feisty Sonics squad if they can regain their defensive focus and exact better contributions from the rest of the team. However, the road to the championship will require much more than that.

Tim Duncan needs to prepare differently than the other Spurs. Manu, Tony, Bruce, Nazr, etc. – they need to look in the mirror, and then at some game tape.

Tim needs to look at some photos and then at some game tape. But not tape of opponents, tape of himself. Vintage film of when he used to be better than good, of when he used to be great.

Many people won't like this article because it's coming out right after Duncan put up "big numbers". But there are definitely some points to ponder.

whoa...why the hate? i wanna yell but i will hold it in...other wise mite get in trouble




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2 or 3 years ago, Duncan could get 20 rebounds with ease. I don't if its due to injury or other spurs big men, but Duncan is barely able to grab 10 rebounds this year in the playoffs.

Wow. If I weren't such a windbag I'd be absolutely speechless.

After the performance he put in the last two games getting every single guy over 6'7" in foul trouble on a bum ankle I cannot believe anybody would say something that blitheringly stupid. Duncan dominated, but he didn't dominate enough? The guy is getting the shit hammered out of him on nearly every play, he doesn't say a word to the officials, and he scores nearly 50 percent of his team's points and he isn't playing inspired basketball? No monster dunks? First of all, when has he ever been much of a dunker, and how many times have we seen him elevate for a dunk since he got back into the lineup? Once? If there's one other than the putback against Denver I don't remember it. Did some of us forget the reason for that?

For those of you that have never had a sprained ankle, or for those of you that did actually forget, his ankle is not completely healthy, and it will not be this season even if he were to rest until the finals. He still lifted this team on his back. He figured out a way to get some of his rhythm back, he dominated the Nuggets in spite of the injury, and he's absolutely taking the Sonics' big men to school now.

And this is all forgotten because he got beat to a rebound? I don't even remember the play. Was it the difference in a blowout loss? Does it negate everything else he did?

Rivenburgh notices that Duncan isn't going to his left hand much but seems not to realize the reason for it. Which foot do you jump off when you shoot with your left hand?

The last two games, his teammates didn't offer much help, the Sonics knew the ball was going to Timmy, and he STILL produced points, drew fouls, gave his team a chance, such as it was, and he did it with his smarts and his drive, as he always has.

Even if Duncan were 100 percent healthy, if anyone is expecting him to dominate with his athleticism and not with his head you are about ten years late, because you are thinking about the wrong seven foot Spur.

TD has been put through a torture chamber this series. Evans and Fortson are as thuggish and physical as they come. Collison and James are willing to give hard fouls too. And then McMillan has dusted off Potapenko to lean on TD when the other four are in foul trouble.

That's 30 fouls Seattle can use to pound on Tim. There is no other team in the West that will challenge TD more than Seattle, physically.

I disagree with the article about TD not blocking shots. He always blocks or alters shots. His defense is still arguably the best in the league, imo.

If anything, I have gained more respect for Tim Duncan. I think Tony Parker and Brent Barry should look at themselves in the mirror, more than Tim Duncan.

^^^ no shit, parker got the contract he wanted, now live up to it...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by slayermin

If anything, I have gained more respect for Tim Duncan. I think Tony Parker and Brent Barry should look at themselves in the mirror, more than Tim Duncan.

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Do you seriously think that Tony and Brent are waiting for you to do it? :rolleyes

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kori Ellis

A Shadow of Duncan
By Kris Rivenburgh
FullSportPress.com


Gregg Popovich said nobody on the team came to play playoff basketball…except Tim Duncan. Duncan may have had a big game statistically, but he didn’t play inspired basketball either.

Duncan’s game of today is a far cry from how he used to play. Duncan’s past play was skillful, dominant, and assertive all in one. In Game 4, he was beat to a rebound by Luke Ridnour after lazily walking over to collect it. Throughout the series, he has passed up opportunities to take the ball strong to the hoop – resorting to floaters, finger rolls, and short jumpers instead. Weren’t you waiting for a huge dunk over Nick Collison after he up-faked Danny Fortson? Yeah, well those don’t happen anymore.

Going to Duncan one-on-one in the low post is no longer a gimme. It’s a belabored point. Sometimes, he just jab steps and pump fakes until he jacks up a shot. Sometimes he waits for the double team, so he can pass. Others, he drives to the paint and chunks up a one-handed eight footer. Most often he’s seeking to create contact instead of actually trying to make the basket.

Gone is the intricate footwork that left defenders befuddled and drew comparisons to Hakeem Olajuwon. When is the last time you saw him switch things up and go to his left hand? Where is the guy that used to posterize other centers and power forwards on a regular basis?

That player is dead. The new T.D. doesn’t do that sort of stuff anymore. He’s still worried about getting hurt again - so now, he doesn’t jump. I always knew he wasn’t the “athletic” type of power forward, but since when does Tim have the spring of Dikembe Mutombo? Rather than snaring reachable rebounds, he elects to try to tip them out of the opponents’ grasp to himself. Blocking shots isn’t really his forte anymore, either. Instead of meeting driving opponents at the summit, Tim usually concedes baskets that close now.

His precision footwork in the low block has morphed into ramming defenders within seven feet of the basket and tossing up his right handed shot. Through four games against Seattle, Duncan has failed to prove he can dominate any of their big men over the course of a game. He’s shown he can draw fouls on them. He’s gotten a few angled bank shots on them, in addition to a few right handed hooks. But, he has not dominated anyone.

There is no variety in his game like there was in 2003 when he went head to head with Shaquille O’Neal. The dominance he showed in 1998 versus Karl Malone is also gone. The overall package displayed in the championship clinching game versus Kenyon Martin is missing several components.

I’m under the impression experience has made Tim Duncan worse. The craftiness with which he uses to draw fouls has turned into a liability. His agility and good hands have given him a false sense of confidence into underestimating the opposition. Injuries can scare him into playing different – even if he is no longer injured. Past playoff disasters refresh in his mind and are now making him wonder if this Seattle series will be like an old Lakers’ series.

Don’t fool yourself into thinking the Spurs hold Tim Duncan, the ace, in the 2005 playoffs. He can average 20 points through put backs, free throws, and a couple of bank shots, easily. The Spurs power forward is playing similar to his lackluster performances against the O’Neal anchored Lakers, where he could muster no efficient offense. Had Manu Ginobili not played the role of MVP against the Nuggets, the Spurs could have very conceivably found themselves in a dangerous game 7 duel.

As it stands now, the Spurs have enough to douse a feisty Sonics squad if they can regain their defensive focus and exact better contributions from the rest of the team. However, the road to the championship will require much more than that.

Tim Duncan needs to prepare differently than the other Spurs. Manu, Tony, Bruce, Nazr, etc. – they need to look in the mirror, and then at some game tape.

Tim needs to look at some photos and then at some game tape. But not tape of opponents, tape of himself. Vintage film of when he used to be better than good, of when he used to be great.

---

Good article. People aren't going to think highly of you when you say something negative about golden boy, but it's true: whether due to injury or something else, Tim doesn't have the variety in his game that he used to.

And it was evident even before he got injured. He used to be a better low post offensive player.

Great article, I really enjoyed it and appreciate its validity in many areas. I'm willing to attribute Duncan's seemingly less intense style of play in terms of rebounding and blocking shots to his concern about his ankle. I get the feeling that Duncan and the Spurs are just "trying to survive" the first couple of rounds, i.e. avoiding injuries, and really going to war in the conference finals and finals. But here they must face a feisty Seattle squad in a best 2/3 series, thankfully, with two at home. I hope to see that dominant, great Duncan already in Game 5.

And I hope that more than Manu show up to support him.

Its very true.

Duncan doesn't do what he USED to.


But of course people will deflect and say how dare you.


Keep your heads in the sand......

If Duncan were doing "what he used to do," Manu, Tony, et al. wouldn't be as near as effective. Tim's passing and court awareness is why everyone else is now so effective. When Tim looks like he "used to", and scores 35 points...did u watch last nights game?

You can have the old Timmy...I'll take the new one that passes out of doubles and has some of the best court awareness in the NBA.

i agree with the article... it doesn't say duncan sucks.. just that he is not doing what he used to do and that he has the ability to do more.

i especially hate it when he waits for the double teams vs just getting the ball and going to the hole 1 on 1.

Yeh yeah, Tim would score 60 pts and grab 30 rebs and if spurs lost it
It would be his fault as well

Come on the team wins not One player not a coach by himself.
Bad article

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Obstructed_View

Wow. If I weren't such a windbag I'd be absolutely speechless.

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:lol Priceless intro.

this article tells me that Duncan needs to do what he does throughout the game like he did last night. However I feel for the spurs to be succesfull he needs to get the rest of the team going early. He needs to draw the double and triple teams and then get the ball to the outside shooters. If the spurs can hit some early jumpers then seattle will be forced to adjust. If duncan dominates from the beginning then seattle does not need to do anything since they are expecting duncan to take control. I know the roll of getting other players going is normally on the point guard, however tony just needs to worry about himself at this point, get his game going.

That article was insane and you Kori actually call yourself a spurs fan and said it made some good points give me a break. How can everyone praise Timmy earlier in the year for being unselfish and letting tony and manu play their ever growing games without complaining and then turn around and bash him for his production being down in the playoffs. His ankle is not 100 percent, but he is working through it he has dominanted for the most part when he needed to 39 and 14 in denver game 4, in the first two games everyone played well so he got his 25 and 22 and they spread it around and tonight no help so he again dominanted 35 and 10 in 32 min. Come on guys Timmy is doing his best his passion is as strong as ever you see him bash that table with his hand when he went out of bounds and you tell me he does not want to win as bad as ever. If the spurs do not win in game 5 it will not be because of Timmy.

its about time someone finally gets it
everyone else including Pop is too delicate with Tim these past couple of years
well guess what being delicate with Tim does....it causes him to be delicate himself
so what if Tim was the high scorer he also had the most turnovers. in order to win a championship everyone has to be accountable...no one gets a free ride

if the Spurs hope to get to the next round TIM FUCKING DUNCAN needs to light a fire in himself and the team

I think the article is right on the money. Duncan used to have a sort of "quiet fire". Now it seems for the most part he is just quiet. I think its a combination of several thing; winning two rings, losing his mentor (DRob) and the injuries. I havent been impressed or inspired by his play for quite some time and regularly find myself questioning his commitment to winning. This is not a quick snap reaction this is something that has built up over the last couple seasons. Yes he put up good numbers last night but the guy looked totally lifeless. He looked like all he cared about was going out and getting his. Some how some where we need to find a vocal leader and someone who can get this team up to play because its very obvious since D Rob left that is something we have sorely lacked.

Good job Kris. TD is certainly still capable of those things you spoke of. I wonder if the mental aspect of his ankle injury is still affecting him. I thought he was more aggressive last night than he has been in the series but not as much as he is capable.

The only problem with Tim's game last night is he tried to force the pass (5 turnovers!)

Tim should've played more selfishly and ended up with 40+ points. Also, Pop should not have taken him out of the game so early (see, I can criticize Pop, too!)

But if fans are going to start dogging on Tim after a 35 pt game, then I guess we should trade him.

Here's my idea for next year's Championship team:

We'll trade Tim for 3 lackluster players from an Eastern team.
We'll fire our coach.

Then we'll try to build a team around Manu Ginobili.

Sound familiar? Like that "dangerous", rebuilt Laker team?

:rolleyes

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MadDog73

The only problem with Tim's game last night is he tried to force the pass (5 turnovers!)

Tim should've played more selfishly and ended up with 40+ points. Also, Pop should not have taken him out of the game so early (see, I can criticize Pop, too!)

But if fans are going to start dogging on Tim after a 35 pt game, then I guess we should trade him.

Here's my idea for next year's Championship team:

We'll trade Tim for 3 lackluster players from an Eastern team.
We'll fire our coach.

Then we'll try to build a team around Manu Ginobili.

Sound familiar? Like that "dangerous", rebuilt Laker team?

:rolleyes

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What is the foundation of your logic behind saying this?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by red kryptonite

What is the foundation of your logic behind saying this?

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I'm just sick of all the bullshit threads calling for Pop's head and telling Tim he needs to step up.

To me, it's exactly like the Lakers blowing up their team after making it to the Finals the year before. Stupid, stupid, stupid.

I know it sucks to lose by 12 against the Sonics, but it's not the end of the Duncan era or anything.

maybe, just maybe playing basketball for 3-4 years without a summer off has taken a bit of a toll. whatever happens the rest of this year, i would be surprised if we didn't see a totally revitalized tim as well as manu.

The guy who wrote this article is pissing in the wind. Since 99, the RC and Pop have worked hard to put together a team that could do more offensively than dump it down low to Dave and Tim. Unlike in years past, the offense is designed to capitalize on double teams by kicking out to capable shooters or passing to cutters. Most of the time (59 games worth this year despite injuries) it has worked well. Tony, Manu, Bruce and at times, Horry, Brown and Barry have made the system work by hitting big shots. When the shots don't fall, however, the Spurs lose. That's what happened last night. Tim got his shots, collapsed the D and made the passes out to our guys who clanked them. When the shooters proved they couldn't hit, Seattle slacked off the perimiter, clogging the passing lanes and getting steals. As far as the author's assertion that Tim is no longer a dominant low-post player, bullshit. If you're teamates don't hit their shots, and you are doubled and tripled by thugs and you still score 35, you're dominant.

The fact is that Seattle hit everything they possibly could and played way the hell over thier heads. Shit happens (about 29% of the time this season). Tim, Tony and Manu will have their shit together at SBC, and we'll win games 5 and 7 (yes, I'm implying that we'll lose game six as well). Nobody said the playoffs were easy.

I know this is angering, but the guy is right. Duncan has not been the same since last years injury late in the season. He just hasn't. Its disappoints me because i can never rely on him to score like i used to. He is still worried about getting injured. Look at his rebounding. look how he hardly ever jumps. Look at how he settles for jumpers. Look at how he tries to draw fouls CONSTANTLY. He is not the same as he used to be, but its def. because of injury and tiredness. I miss the old Duncan, but he is getting there. It just takes time .

Pop is the one to blame. Write an article about how much of a baloney giving dipshit he is.

I agree with the article. Tim put up 35, but he could have put up 55. He's not attacking the way he could. I seriously am wanting him to just slam it over Jerome James like he did on Shaq in 2003 with so much passion and tenacisty.

Yes, Tim still isn't back to his old self since the injury but you can't deny that he's fucking trying. At least he's using he head when his body can't do all the things he wants to. The same can't be said of the rest of the supporting cast in game 4.

Parker and Manu forced shots and played very selfish basketball. Tony in particular was very bad in letting himself get outplayed by Ridnour. As starting pg, he didn't penetrate and dish like we know he can. And you know that something is very wrong when Manu gets outplayed by Antonio fucking Daniels.

The only knock on Tim I still have is his lack of leadership in getting vocal with his teammates when they really need a kick in the ass. Sometimes, leading by example just doesn't work. However, Tim has never been the vocal type and after all this time likely never will be. That's still cold comfort for me however because it seems if Pop doesn't rip the team when they need it, no one else does.

I agree somewhat. I think the article was a little too over the top. I think we can all agree that 2003 Duncan was better than 2005 Duncan. But I also think his 3 ankle injuries and the long summer has a lot to do with it.

Too imply he's washed up or declining is ridiculous in my opinion.

Like i posted in some other topic duncan IS playing like wimp compared to his peers. Like it or not the article is correct.

PS. I criticize tim to make him better.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tim_duncan_fan

Like i posted in some other topic duncan IS playing like wimp compared to his peers. Like it or not the article is correct.

PS. I criticize tim to make him better.

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P.S. Tim's not reading this forum.

2005 Tim < 2003 Tim, I'll give you guys that, but he is trying out there. But in the back of his mind he's worried about re-injuring that ankle and ruining the Spur's playoff chances.

Trust me on this one, a guy who can score 39 points on Marcus Camby and Kenyon Martin, and then score 35 against a bunch on thugs in Seattle in only 32 minutes is dominant.

BTW, I'm tired of hearing that Tim is not a vocal leader. How the hell do you guys know what is going on in the huddles? Remeber game 4 @ Denver when he huddled his teammates together and gave an inspirational speech? We have 2 other All-Star calliber players on this team who should not need inspirational speeches or a tongue-lashing to play well.

I love how everyone is so quick to blame Tim when Tony and Manu barely even show up for game 4 and forget to play defense.

I'm confused. How is a 35 pt night a step backwards for Tim?!?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MadDog73

I'm confused. How is a 35 pt night a step backwards for Tim?!?

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Yes. :rolleyes

Quote:

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Duncan’s game of today is a far cry from how he used to play.

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i will only say 3 words:

DUNCAN IS HEALTHY!

Everything is possible.

I think it may be partly due to his ankle, but Tim used to use a greater variety of low post moves than he does now. He also used to get angry, drop-step people and tear the rim off, but I haven't seen much of that since 2003!

He is a differnet player since the 2003 championship - one that settles for long jumpers more often and doesn't use his feet to destroy opponents like he used to.

Hate to say it, but some valid points made by Kris.

The author of this article wanted to point out that as TD approaches 30, his peak years are gone, just as all Hall of Famer did.

Yes,
1. Duncan will not stay in MVP form forever,
2. and his ankle will at least take the whole summer to heal.
However, to say that Duncan did not play with heart in game 4 is simply unfair to him. Though it's not one of his most memorable performance, at least it wasn't disappointing. The whole team needs to step up and react to aggressiveness by the Sonics with more aggressiveness. (More playing time to Devin!)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by team-work

The author of this article wanted to point out that as TD approaches 30, his peak years are gone, just as all Hall of Famer did.

Yes,
1. Duncan will not stay in MVP form forever,
2. and his ankle will at least take the whole summer to heal.
However, to say that Duncan did not play with heart in game 4 is simply unfair to him. Though it's not one of his most memorable performance, at least it wasn't disappointing. The whole team needs to step up and react to aggressiveness by the Sonics with more aggressiveness. (More playing time to Devin!)

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Yup...he is past his prime and still is one of the top 3 players in the NBA. So hes over 30 thats his excuse...whats Tony's and Manu's???

Then need to step it up

Yes, TD is still the most feared interior force beside Shaq, and he's got the most all-rounded fundamental skills in the league.

All negative things said (esp after 2 road losses), I still believe the Spurs will come out with their best in Game 5 (no matter what's the outcome, I'll still be a Spurs fan).