Reigning Black: Ask And You Shall Receive

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Originally Posted by benefactor

I still can't wrap my brain around being stuck with RJ for four more years...and the fact that so many people seem to be ok with it. All those people are going to be eating a ton of crow this time next year.

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RJ at 14+ million a year wasn't worth it and was hugely overpaid, no one was really ok with what was going on. RJ's production was worth about 7 mil in the market conditions last year.and the reason he was worth that little was because of poor defense. If he tightens up his defense and not a huge huge amount, he is worth 9 to 10. He's not here for massive offensive production. Just a 10 and 6 or 7 guy with the occasional big game and play pretty good defense. Thats all the spurs are asking.They got 12 and 4. Playing smarter defense defense all year and not having his retarded worlds closest spectator moments on the court for some games should get him the difference in rebounds, and might actually help on offense.

The new contract brings his pay in line with though at the high end of what his reasonable production expectations should be. The production dreams for last year were a bit unreasonable. The actual product he put on the court was enough below that even jefferson was a bit embarrassed.

For all of you with doubts about RJ, just be a fan and hope he plays well.

That is all.

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Originally Posted by ohmwrecker

Trading Jefferson's expiring was undoubtedly explored around the trade deadline last season and there were no takers.

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Jefferson's contract wasn't expiring last season...

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Originally Posted by ohmwrecker

We didn't hear about too much interest when he opted out for FA either.

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True, however, we know why. Nobody in their right mind would outbid 4/$40m for him

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Originally Posted by ohmwrecker

If the Spurs let him walk they would have had limited money to spend on Splitter, a replacement SF and Bonner (or a replacement).

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Not true. You need to learn how these exceptions work: MLE and Bird Rights.
Go read up on them then we can continue this conversation.

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Originally Posted by xellos88330

For all of you with doubts about RJ, just be a fan and hope he plays well.

That is all.

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There would be nothing better than eat crow on RJ's performance the upcoming season for me as a fan.

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Originally Posted by ElNono

Jefferson's contract wasn't expiring last season...

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It wasn't immediately expiring, but it did have the opt out clause which he did exercise.

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Originally Posted by ElNono

True, however, we know why. Nobody in their right mind would outbid 4/$40m for him

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Apparently, nobody would rent him for $15.2 either.

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Originally Posted by ElNono

Not true. You need to learn how these exceptions work: MLE and Bird Rights. Go read up on them then we can continue this conversation.

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Don't be so condescending. I'm not an expert, but Bird's rights in this case only applied to RJ. Meaning the Spurs would still only have the MLE/LLE to split between Splitter and a replacement SF (which was a pretty thin FA market this year, talent-wise) and as the market has shown, that would not have been enough to get a decent replacement.

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Originally Posted by ohmwrecker

It wasn't immediately expiring, but it did have the opt out clause which he did exercise.

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Which means it wasn't expiring. Meaning that if we would have traded him last season, his new team would have been potentially on the hook for this season's $15.2m...

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Originally Posted by ohmwrecker

Apparently, nobody would rent him for $15.2 either.

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Because the savings weren't instantaneous. They had to wait one full season until the $15m would come off the books. That's why actually expiring contracts are valuable beyond the ability of the player.

Obviously, his talents wouldn't fetch anything over $10m/season either.

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Originally Posted by ohmwrecker

Don't be so condescending. I'm not an expert, but Bird's rights in this case only applied to RJ. Meaning the Spurs would still only have the MLE/LLE to split between Splitter and a replacement SF (which was a pretty thin FA market this year, talent-wise) and as the market has shown, that would not have been enough to get a decent replacement.

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No. Birds Rights apply to anybody that's coming off a 3+ season long contract. Meaning we could extend Bonner regardless of our cap situation. And the MLE was available because we were over the salary cap minus the value of the MLE, which we were regardless of whatever RJ did. Thus, signing Splitter had nothing to with RJ either.

I'm simply not contemplating RJ walking, because he would have not done that if he didn't have that 4/40 contract in his back pocket. And if he wouldn't have opted out, we would have the exact same roster we have, paying a boatload more tax, but with a possible tradeable piece in RJ.

The FO obviously decided not to take the tax hit in exchange for renouncing the possibility of trading RJ. They obviously believe RJ can improve, and that's fine by me. I'm hoping they're absolutely right.

I would have rather rolled the dice on the youngsters and picked up a vet. As DPG has mentioned many times, RJ or no RJ is not what will make or break this team from a championship perspective.

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Originally Posted by Blackjack

I think we just need to look at these next two years when assessing RJ's contract. The Spurs did the best they could do in terms of acquiring talent, and though RJ was one of the last players I wanted to see them trade for, they didn't have another legitimate option at the time -- and they wouldn't have landed a big-time free agent this time around, either.

The Spurs aren't viewed as the same juggernaut anymore and as their prestige wears off, the fact that they play in San Antonio begins to dissuade free agents again. When they were winning titles and Duncan was basically The Man in the league, it began to be overlooked. But not anymore.

I think we've just got to come to terms with the fact that RJ is the most talented player they could acquire. And those that are pissed that he's back and wish he had just went elsewhere, you've just got to realize without RJ the Spurs would be starting Hairston and Gee would be backing him up. They wouldn't have had the cap room to sign any of the wings that have been suggested, and they wouldn't have had anything of real value to trade to make their team better other than Tony.

For better or worse, I think what we see is what we're going to get. Not exactly, but the core (the Big 3, Hill, Blair Splitter and RJ) is what it is for the duration of Tim's final two years. There really isn't a trade that can be made to bring back the type of difference maker(s) to make them a no-doubt title contender.

They've still got a chance at contention with this group. If the youth develops/comes through, the vets play their best ball collectively at the right time and they maybe make a small, quality trade, they could get No. 5. But that's how it's going to have to be done: fortunately, and collectively.

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Really good post here.

going into next year the Spurs will be underdogs, a drakhorse to win the championship.

HOWEVER, no matter what any other fan says, they will always have some fear of the Spurs in the back for their minds because of the simple fact that the Spurs' core together has 3 championships, and half of it (Pop and Tim) has 4.

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Originally Posted by mingus

HOWEVER, no matter what any other fan says, they will always have some fear of the Spurs in the back for their minds

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TBH, I don't think the Suns were intimidated at all last season...

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Originally Posted by ElNono

TBH, I don't think the Suns were intimidated at all last season...

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Likewise with the Mavs :toast

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Originally Posted by ElNono

No. Birds Rights apply to anybody that's coming off a 3+ season long contract. Meaning we could extend Bonner regardless of our cap situation. And the MLE was available because we were over the salary cap minus the value of the MLE, which we were regardless of whatever RJ did. Thus, signing Splitter had nothing to with RJ either.

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Right. I get Bird's rights. I didn't mention Bonner . . . the point I'm trying to make is the Spurs got Bonner, Jefferson and Splitter for less money than it would've cost to keep Jefferson on his original deal. Sure, they could have let him walk but they never would have found a comparable SF for what they had left after signing Bonner and Splitter.

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Originally Posted by benefactor

I would have rather rolled the dice on the youngsters and picked up a vet. As DPG has mentioned many times, RJ or no RJ is not what will make or break this team from a championship perspective.

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What vet though? This is what I don't get. Any decent SA FA would've wanted more money than the Spurs had to spend or they just don't have any interest in playing in San Antonio at all. It would've been interesting to see the Spurs let RJ go and roll with an Anderson/Gee/Hairston SF rotation, but that is not exactly a confidence inspiring proposition.

The Spurs got splitter for less money. Extending RJ and Bonner was moronic.