Hollinger's Offseason Winners - Spurs Included - (Insider)

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Originally Posted by Mr.Bottomtooth

I thought you meant it wasn't an option to continue on with the arrangements. I was asking what would stop them from getting rid of the plans after he opted out.

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Probably the complete absence of correctly priced small forward free agents.

After letting the contract details for Jefferson's contract settle in more I feel better. Its not that bad considering all the other contracts that were being handed out to guys like Haywood, J Johnson, and Gay. Its Bonner's contract that bothers me more than Jefferson's. Bonner has been a Spur longer than Jefferson and come playoff time his huevos shrevel up. To me that doesn't get rewarded with a raise. Oh well.

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Originally Posted by ogait

He assumes an extension would be made after this year as if he hasn't opted out of his contract. It can't be 39$ - 17$ because he will receive 31 $ millions for the finals 3 years of his current 4 years deal.

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he should first count the difference between the old salary for this year(17 million) and the new salary for this year(8 million) and than subtract it from the 31 million extension, so it still being 22 million 3 years extension!

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Originally Posted by Mr.Bottomtooth

I thought you meant it wasn't an option to continue on with the arrangements. I was asking what would stop them from getting rid of the plans after he opted out.

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you mean:
RJ: hey guys i can opt out this year if you give me a different contract for more years.
SA: sure. Opt out and let's talk.
RJ:Ok i opte'd out.
SA. Haha we're not gonna sign you sucker.

I guess that could happen :lol

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Originally Posted by kobyz

he should first count the difference between the old salary for this year(17 million) and the new salary for this year(8 million) and than subtract it from the 31 million extension, so it still being 22 million 3 years extension!

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His old salary for this year wasn't 17 million, it was almost 15 million but that value doesn't matter now. Those 17 million refer to the saving the spurs make this year due to the fact fact that he opted out of his contract and signed a new one with a lesser value in his first year.

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Originally Posted by benefactor

As much as I can't stand Hollinger, this is probably the best argument for the contract I have heard.

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On July 21

(with the assumption of a 32/4 contract instead of 39/4 but the reasoning is the same)

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Originally Posted by will_spurs

I think a lot of people don't realize how bad the situation was for the Spurs before RJ opted out. He was owned $15.2m plus the luxury tax, which would probably have been around $7m. I'm sure he told the Spurs "give me the $22m I would have cost you last year but spread over 2 years, then $5m per year for 2 more years for a total of $32m over 4 years".

I don't understand why people would prefer RJ for 1 year for $22m rather than RJ for 4 years for $32m total, with a nice trade chip at the end. Wiht that kind of contract the Spurs basically get RJ for 3.5m/y for 3 years...

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Originally Posted by hater

Bonner was the worst signing of the summer. Where is the outrage??

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Agreed! The worthless one should've been sent packing instead we sign this loser! WTF!:bang

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Originally Posted by ElNono

Anyways, when does training camp starts? :hungry:

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Seriously, I'm excited again. Even though I was soured on NBALPBB last season I'm going to find it hard to not pick it up again this season. I have to watch this team now.

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Originally Posted by will_spurs

On July 21

(with the assumption of a 32/4 contract instead of 39/4 but the reasoning is the same)

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What do you want? A pat on the ass? Chalk it up to ADD.

Other teams don't care about what kind of math you can do when factoring in RJ's contract. It was a terrible contract, especially when you look at the Spurs situation (which will cause more arguments), and all of this is opinion.

Whether you want to officially crown it the worst deal or not is irrelevant. It is a terrible deal.

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Originally Posted by benefactor

What do you want? A pat on the ass? Chalk it up to ADD.

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I guess I will have to be happy with the fact that I apparently annoyed you. Better than nothing.

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Originally Posted by Mal

I thinks the worst contract is Joe Johnson for zillion of dollars. Or Haywood for half a zillion. Or giving Rudy Gay max extension without making quallifying offer and waiting to match other team`s offers.

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^^^^^^^^^^^ This.

Rudy Gay is a lot better than RJ. He has upside and it is safe to assume, with the contracts given out that Gay would have gotten a similar offer. Joe Johnson is an elite player and while overpaid, he would have gotten a similar offer from another team less the extra year. Haywood does not have the same effect on the Mavs as RJ does the Spurs because their owner will spend a ton of money.

No one wanted RJ, he is declining and he did nothing to help the team that signed him achieve their goals. He has a long term contract that goes up in price as he ages.

All things considering, that's marvellously pessimistic.

I'm sure the went down like this:

Sometime in April
RC/Pop: Look RJ, if you were to opt out of your final year, you could save the Spurs $17M next year and allow us to go get Splitter and maybe somebody else to help.
Rj: What do I get out of that - why would I walk away from $15M when I won't command close to that in FA?
RC/Pop: We will take care of you - how does 4/$40 sound to you?
Rj: That sounds pretty good.
*Handshake*

Sometime around July 7th Pop and RC are sitting around having some wine.
RC: Popdammit, nobody wants RJ and he is a terrible fit with our team.
Pop: No shit, what are we going to do - he probably wouldn't command more than the MLE from anybody else.
RC: Well, we did have the handshake deal in place....it would be pretty shitty of us to hang him out to dry after he helped us out.
Pop: That's true - we don't want to become the Carlos Boozer of NBA franchises. Also there aren't any other good SFs out there anyway. Let's pray that all the work I've put in with him this summer will pay off.
RC: Good points. At least we can still laugh at that faggot ass Mark Cuban for giving Haywood $55M. :lmao

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Originally Posted by bigbendbruisebrother

What other 12 ppg small forward would you have chosen in our price range? I sure hope RJ has a better upcoming season than last, but he showed signs of beginning to "get it" about 2/3 of the way into last season. Given the limited pool of small forwards and the inflated prices they were getting, RJ is still the best fit.

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That not really the point. The point is you don't pay 40 million to a player that you hope will play better. You pay to players that you are pretty sure will.

IMO the Spurs are not marginally worse signing someone like Bobby Simmons and giving Gee/Hairston the rest of the minutes.

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Originally Posted by benefactor

That not really the point. The point is you don't pay 40 million to a player that you hope will play better. You pay to players that you are pretty sure will.

IMO the Spurs are not marginally worse signing someone like Bobby Simmons and giving Gee/Hairston the rest of the minutes.

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I'm sorry, but that's laughable. Simmons is crap.

No one will be laughing this time next year.

I'm sick of all the idiots on here drilling RJ for not putting up big numbers.
He is our 4th option and his numbers were that of a 4th option.
When he was the 3rd or maybe once the 2nd option he put up big games, even put a few together when TP was out.
Not many players as a 4th option to TD, TP and Manu would have put much better numbers up, plus TP being score first doesn't help.
Plus going from 1st/2nd option most his career it was never going to be an easy transition going to 4th, that and having a massive contract over his head with every NBA supporter giving it to him.
I think things will fall into place and he will play a much bigger role in our drive for 5 this coming season.

Its not his offense people are complaining about a hug amount, we're mostly ok with it. It would be nice if there was a better jump shot so that space was kinder, and being crisper with better passing would be nice, but the real problem is lack-luster defense, moments of head in assness resulting in missed rebounds and defensive switches and the occasional turn over. Some of this is probably bound to be better with the second year in system but the real problem seemed to be unless he was being fed the ball on offense more than he could reasonably expect, his brain had a serious tendency to shut down and he merely went into some sort of basketball auto-pilot where he became the closest observer in at the nba game.

I hear your point
Maybe that we have a new big that appears to be able to play RJ will spend less time playing power forward a role that I’d suggest had an impact on his rebounding. It did look as though when pop took him away from that PF role after all star break and his rebounding and general defence did improve, though not all the time but there were a lot more solid games but still plenty of improvement to be made.

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Originally Posted by hater

Bonner was the worst signing of the summer. Where is the outrage??

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It is here on SpursTalk :sleep :flag:

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Originally Posted by benefactor

No one will be laughing this time next year.

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About what?

That R.J was the most realistic and best option Spurs could have signed this off-season?

Or the fact that with or without R.J, Spurs wouldn't be able to afford a significant free agent the next 2 years anyway? Without R.J, Spurs would have around 6-8 million in cap space next year and that figure declines the following year (w/out Parker) and Spurs would have no MLE or LLE to work with. With R.J the next 2 years, Spurs have the MLE and LLE to spend (with or without Parker re-signed). What a big difference right?

So as of right now, Spurs only have one 11 million dollar contract on the books in 4 years and it is expiring. Oh no, our future is sooo fucked. :rolleyes

Again...him potentially being the best option is not the point. The point is he is not a championship piece and the Spurs gave him a contract like he is one. The Spurs are no more in contention with RJ than they are without. He doesn't matter that much...period.

TMac and Bobby Simmons are both still out there. The Spurs could sign either one them and play the youngsters the rest of the minutes and would not be marginally worse.

Trying to prop the window open by re-signing RJ to a big deal hoping he gets it right is reeks of desperation.

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Originally Posted by benefactor

Again...him potentially being the best option is not the point. The point is he is not a championship piece and the Spurs gave him a contract like he is one. The Spurs are no more in contention with RJ than they are without. He doesn't matter that much...period.

TMac and Bobby Simmons are both still out there. The Spurs could sign either one them and play the youngsters the rest of the minutes and would not be marginally worse.

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I think you are underrating Jefferson or just overrating Bobby fucking Simmons. I know you don't like the deal but let us not exaggerate Simmons' basketball abilities or Hairston or Gee's, because there is no way it is a marginal talent difference.

Whatever. I'm sorry that 40 million dollars has suddenly made RJ look like LeBron in the eyes of many of you. He sucks and will continue to suck.