I think Bron Bron might have forfeited his "franchise player" status.
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I think Bron Bron might have forfeited his "franchise player" status.
+1:toastQuote:
Originally Posted by ohmwrecker
Disagree...Quote:
Originally Posted by ohmwrecker
Lebron just allowed Miami to have TWO franchise players on one team...as someone already mentioned
Why be the next Sloan when he can be the only Pop? The man has 4 championships and Sloan has none. It would be better to compare him to Reilly.Quote:
Originally Posted by 20beastie45
You can't have two franchise players on one team. That's why they are called the franchise player.Quote:
Originally Posted by silverblk mystix
says who?Quote:
Originally Posted by ohmwrecker
Miami has TWO ...not opinion...fact.
If that is your claim, then the burden of proof is on you. I think I will wait and see them actually play some games before I start claiming opinion as fact.Quote:
Originally Posted by silverblk mystix
And they've done well, until the past 2-3 years that is. The Scola hiccup and Mason/Bonner/Bogans moves haven't yielded good results unfortunately. Hence the Spurs are not a top echelon team anymore.Quote:
Originally Posted by ace3g
Indeed......Quote:
"There's a difference between a max player and a franchise player," he continued. "There aren't too many franchise players and a whole lot of max players. That's the deal. You can count the franchise players on one hand. Until you get one of those, it's not going to happen for you."
Timmy, Kobe, Wade = Franchise Players
Dirk, LBJ, Bosh, Howard, McGrady, Johnson = Max Players
Miami has one, and one who potentially could have been but realized he wasn't. That's the entire reason why LBJ made the move to South Beach.Quote:
Originally Posted by silverblk mystix
as much as I hate Dwhistle he is a franchise player. and so is lebron
really ?Quote:
Originally Posted by ace3g
Do you think that Lebron is now a worse player than last year?Quote:
Originally Posted by Agloco
Lebron is still in his prime and so is Wade--where is it written that there can only be one?
This is new territory now and in the past --any team would be lucky to have even ONE franchise player
but all of a sudden Miami has two...Lebron will probably play even better than he did at Cleveland---and that is scary because now Lebron doesn't have the pressure of doing everything and he can be more of an all around player.
Remember when Lebron was criticized for passing to a teammate in clutch time---well the play--and the pass were correct but the teammate missed the shot so Lebron caught all kinds of shit for it---so he tried to be something he was not and that was to be a player in the MJ/Kobe mode...
but Lebron might be more of an Oscar Robertson type---by triple doubling the shit out of the NBA and if THAT isn't a franchise player...then I don't know what is...
so Wade can continue his clutchness in the final moments---but Lebron can make Wade's job easier by controlling the ball and drawing attention -therefore allowing Wade to seal the deal...and this I believe in NO WAY diminishes the talent of Lebron
UNLESS
you are caught up in the MJ/Kobe type of hero and feel the NEED to invent ANOTHER Jordan...then you will accuse lebron of being---LESS...
ALL a matter of opinion in the end...
Franchise player isn't the "player who win the NBA" .A franchise player is a player enough good to built a team to compete for the tittle around him.Only an idiot can say the Cavs weren't a tittle contender with LeBron.They had 2 times the best record of the league and they played the Finals in 2007.
Under 25 if James (2 times MVP) isn't a franchise player then none is. Now he couldn't be the leader in Miami but that's not what Pop was talking about
LeBron was a franchise player in Cleveland. He is now in Miami who already has their franchise player in Wade. Nobody thinks that LeBron is a worse basketball player, but Wade is the leader of that team. He will be the one everyone else defers to. He has already won a championship for the franchise. Wade is the franchise player. I can't think of a team that has ever had two franchise players.Quote:
Originally Posted by hater
You can look at the 2000-2003 Lakers. Shaq was the man there. The franchise player. Once Kobe decided he wanted to challenge that, the Lakers made the decision to let Shaq go (coincidentally, to Miami, where he deferred to Wade) and Kobe became the Lakers' franchise player.
Or, look at the Spurs. While the transition was smoother and free of jealousy, David Robinson, the previous franchise player, took a step back and made way for the new franchise player, Tim Duncan.
Now this is just my opinion, but I believe that the franchise player is the guy that teams build around for a championship future. There may be some really great players at his side, but only one can be "the man".
Agree. Miami now has two franchise players and an all star big. The future has been set now where top free agent players will team together to create super allstar teams.Quote:
Originally Posted by Josepatches_
The days are over for teams like the spurs, trying to win with the main core of the team built around their draft picks and a couple low end role player pickups.
Go back a little further in time. The lakers of the 80s had two franchise players in Abdul-Jabber and Magic.Quote:
Originally Posted by ohmwrecker
Why do teams only have to have 1 franchise player? Two players can play great on the same team. Hall of fame players like Abdul-Jabber and Magic are franchise players. Also Shaq and Kobe and Duncan and Robinson were all franchise players. Those teams with the two franchise players all won more than 1 title.
Those are examples of teams that transitioned from one franchise player to the next. The showtime Lakers and the Duncan era Spurs were able to do it smoothly were as one player declined, the other would rise.Quote:
Originally Posted by rascal
Like I said, it's just my opinion. Maybe the Heat will prove me wrong, but both James and Wade are in their prime, so it's a different situation. It will, at least, be interesting.
I find it strange as to how Pop always publically reveres Sloan and his disciplined system, as a model for the Spurs. It's strange to hear all that public fawning when the Spurs are the organization with 4 championships.Quote:
Originally Posted by elbamba
Robinson was a franchise player, but he passed it on to Duncan. Shaq was the franchiser player, and that team imploded and had to trade Shaq when Kobe challenged him. Kareem was a franchise player, but he stepped aside to let Magic run the show. Pippen is a top 20 NBA player of all time, but Jordan was the franchise player. Theres a difference between "great" and "franchise." The Franchise player is the one the team builds around, the one the future rests on, the one who if taken away the team is no longer the same caliber. In Miami that guy has and will be Wade. Lebron lost his legacy when he hitched hiumself on the D-Wade bandwaggon.Quote:
Originally Posted by rascal
...matter of opinion...Quote:
Originally Posted by Trimble87
Pippen may have been a top 20 player---but Lebron is more than that...so that theory is out the window...
Wade and LBJ are BOTH top 5 at least---maybe even top 3
BOTH are still in their primes and both are going to wreak havoc...
here is ANOTHER way of looking at it;
Wade or LBJ would be many teams 1st choice to build a team around---either would be picked as their franchise player if given the chance
Wade isn't that high up on the list of all time shooting guards. He's good, make no mistake but he's not top 25 of all time as an overall player and not a top 5 shooting guard all time. Wade does have a strong leadership personality which in some ways allows him to lead a team beyond how good he actually is. He's a good but not elite ballhandler, a merely adequate passer, and only above average as a jumpshooter. He's really good as a finisher in the lane and at drawing fouls and making those foulshots. He's also very competitive He's above average on defense but not great there either. He's also pretty good at marketing himself. quite honestly age being equal (its not) I'd rather have manu on my team as a shooting guard over wade, wade is an all star player but he's not much more than that. Name one skill Wade really outshines Roy or Manu or Kobe at?