The Bruce Bowen Boondoggle

man shut the hell up malik had the best d on this team since bruce bowen and yall know it quit that noise real talk

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Originally Posted by ohmwrecker

Not as far as I am concerned.

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I wasn't really talking about you -- just that any thread about perimeter D becomes a de facto Hairston lament with some corollary Gary Neal hate thrown in for good measure.

I do agree that the "stopper as starter" era is ovah.

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Originally Posted by SpursTillTheEnd

Bring back malikkkkkkkkk h had the best d on this team bring back malik :king:king:king:king

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His philly steak place came back... that's a start.

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

I wasn't really talking about you -- just that any thread about perimeter D becomes a de facto Hairston lament with some corollary Gary Neal hate thrown in for good measure.

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Well, that is at least somewhat appropriate. I was afraid ceperez was going to turn it into a trade Tony thread.

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Originally Posted by SpursTillTheEnd

man shut the hell up malik had the best d on this team since bruce bowen and yall know it quit that noise real talk

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He wasn't all that great and he chose to leave.

Real talk.

Do you have anything to say besides whining about his departure?

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

He wasn't all that great and he chose to leave.

Real talk.

Do you have anything to say besides whining about his departure?

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there is no way rj should be in the starting lineup nahmeen, debate that

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Originally Posted by Blackjack

His Omnipotence, Blackjack -- this Guy -- isn't second-guessing. I was fully aware of the type of player RJ was and wasn't one of the people enthused with the trade.

I'm not hating on Pop -- the only real problem I have with his handling of the situation was choosing to be stubborn with Bogans instead of play the player that clearly outplayed him (Hairston) -- and I knew and know exactly what he was trying to do.

What people seem to completely miss whenever Hairston's involved with one of my posts is that I've never suggested he was the difference in making the team last year a title contender or not. He would've have been a better option the Bogans, there's not a doubt in my mind, but Bogans was literally one of the worst players in the league last year that had a significant role on a team with title aspirations (some with even lower aspirations).

I was just never one of the people that felt RJ could make this team a legit title contender without a legit perimeter defender playing alongside of him, and given that they don't grow on trees or are readily available, I came to the conclusion the Spurs just weren't going to be winning a championship without a trade -- had they been able to get a solid 2-way player like Salmons or the Thomas-Salmons package I brought up way back when, they'd probably have given themselves a much better shot. But you need another team to oblige you when it comes to trades.

Bottom line, the Spurs can't rely on RJ to be a player that closes games and someone they're absolutely reliant on to win. But for that to be the case they're going to have to have some of their young guys go all Stephen Jackson on the league, a la '03, or they're going to have to make a trade. That's the only real chance they have, IMO.

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I agree Hairston>Bogans. I know exactly what pop was trying to do and don't have a problem with it but it's pretty clear he went with Bogans way to long. Same with Mason. Malik should have gotten to play over 1 of these guys.

hairston sure had potential on defense. a shame really.

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Originally Posted by Interrohater

I still say that our best chance of "replacing" Bruce Bowen is already in our lineup. There are four other positions on the floor, with the PG position arguably the most important. Is it too much of a stretch to think that our defensive stalwart can be the PG stopper instead of the SF stopper? I think George Hill's defensive ceiling is still decently high, why couldn't he become our defensive perimeter stopper? Of course, I mean that only if he sticks to guarding PG's. Putting him on SF's and PF's is ridiculous.

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The pg stopper in g.hill is not a replacement of bruce because pg stoppers are not as valuable as sf stoppers. Most of the elite teams have a elite sg or sf on the team, that needs to be disrupted by a defensive player on the spurs. G.hill's also has to play half of his minutes at the sg position because he is on the court with parker. That transforms him from a pg stopper to a average sg defender at best. That is why I would want to trade g.hill if the spurs resign parker.

On the bright side for the 15 minutes per game he is on the court without parker he can be a pg stopper against the opposing teams backup pg.:)

On the not so bright side bruce use to play 32 minutes per game on the best sg/sf/dirk in the league.:(

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Originally Posted by SpursTillTheEnd

there is no way rj should be in the starting lineup nahmeen, debate that

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Sure he should. He's quite a good basketball player.

Much better than Hairston.

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

I wasn't really talking about you -- just that any thread about perimeter D becomes a de facto Hairston lament with some corollary Gary Neal hate thrown in for good measure.

I do agree that the "stopper as starter" era is ovah.

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:lol Gary Neal hate.

yea rj sure is a good basketball player i epically like how he was left wide open the whole suns series and didn't hit shit... smh malik would of shut down dudley rj left him open all day, nigga malik didnt even play that much this season and yet he has better highlights then jefferson .....

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Originally Posted by DesignatedT

I agree Hairston>Bogans. I know exactly what pop was trying to do and don't have a problem with it but it's pretty clear he went with Bogans way to long. Same with Mason. Malik should have gotten to play over 1 of these guys.

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Gotta give him credit for still thinking about defense, but I've no idea what the Spurs ever saw in Bogans. The Celtics turned Ray Allen into a pretty damn good defender, so getting a vet to focus is clearly possible if he has the talent to do it. I'd be more than happy if the Spurs decided to try to build a "Bowen replacement" if they did it properly, but the only guy on the roster with the length to do it at this point is Richard Jefferson. They seem to be too busy looking for a "Finley replacement", which is a bit worrisome.

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Originally Posted by Obstructed_View

:lol Gary Neal hate.

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:lol indeed.

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Originally Posted by SpursTillTheEnd

yea rj sure is a good basketball player i epically like how he was left wide open the whole suns series and didn't hit shit... smh malik would of shut down dudley rj left him open all day, nigga malik didnt even play that much this season and yet he has better highlights then jefferson .....

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Jefferson is a much better basketball player than Hairston.

Jefferson is still in the NBA.

Hairston is not.

You are white.

Real talk.

Every single player on the Spurs played like garbage in that Suns series. Top to bottom. Blaming Jefferson for that is just absurd. Malik Hairston gets as much undeserved and undue love as RJ gets hate. It's ridiculous. How about a little perspective and balance here people?

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

:lol indeed.

Jefferson is a much better basketball player than Hairston.

Jefferson is still in the NBA.

Hairston is not.

You are white.

Real talk.

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shut the hell up dick dumper get off rjs nuts nvm stay on em since u like dick, aint no white in me but there is white on yo lips from rj

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Originally Posted by SpursTillTheEnd

malik didnt even play that much this season and yet he has better highlights then jefferson .....

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That's just bullshit. Come on, man. You know that's not true. Go to youtube and search Spurs top plays of 2010. Half of them are RJ dunks and he is either running the break or making an assist on the other half. RJ had the best highlights of the year second to Manu.

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Originally Posted by SpursTillTheEnd

shut the hell up dick dumper get off rjs nuts nvm stay on em since u like dick, aint no white in me but there is white on yo lips from rj

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Nah, it's simply very clear that Jefferson is a better basketball player than Malik Hairston.

Real talk.

aight lets take it back to that houston game when we were getting our asses whooped who came in and brought us back and played great? malik and when we caught back up who came in and we lost? rj. how are yall really gonna sit there and say rj is better then malik, shit i put it on anything if malik would of played more then rj we would of been better

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Originally Posted by ohmwrecker

Every single player on the Spurs played like garbage in that Suns series. Top to bottom. Blaming Jefferson for that is just absurd. Malik Hairston gets as much undeserved and undue love as RJ gets hate. It's ridiculous. How about a little perspective and balance here people?

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Do you think that rj's hate is undeserved and undue?

I think rj hate from the fans is both due and deserved because dick sucked balls all season long.

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Originally Posted by ohmwrecker

Every single player on the Spurs played like garbage in that Suns series. Top to bottom. Blaming Jefferson for that is just absurd. Malik Hairston gets as much undeserved and undue love as RJ gets hate. It's ridiculous. How about a little perspective and balance here people?

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I dunno, Matt Bonner shot 45.5% from three-point range in that series. :downspin:

In all seriousness, I agree with the general point you are making. It is a flaw that many sports fans exhibit, and unfortunately I don't see it going away any time soon.

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Originally Posted by ohmwrecker

Every single player on the Spurs played like garbage in that Suns series. Top to bottom. Blaming Jefferson for that is just absurd. Malik Hairston gets as much undeserved and undue love as RJ gets hate. It's ridiculous. How about a little perspective and balance here people?

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I think you're going to extremes when you compare STTE Hairston rhetoric and the majority of people like myself and O_V who were simply pointing out the truth. Which was, Hairston should have been given the opportunity to play and prove himself or fall on his face before Bogans was handed the role -- that's what always seems to get lost in the Hairston talk.

It's not about pretending he's something he's not, it's simply acknowledging Pop's decision to neglect the cold hard truth as to what was shown instead of siding with his predilection to go with the vet.

Jefferson's clearly a better player than Hairston. But there's no reason that should have precluded Hairston from playing last year, given what Malik did bring to the table was something that was a weakness for Jefferson (and Mason and even Bogans to an extent): defense.

There are less than 10-15 players that could come in and do a passable job at filling Bowen's defensive role. There are probably around 5 that could stay on the court because they have the ability to knock down the 3 at a respectable rate or that's defense is solid and their offense would be an upgrade over Bowen.

Top of my head: Webster, Ariza, Battier, Pietrus, Afflalo and someone's slippin' my mind at the moment.

But to suffice is to say, there's not many and they ain't all that easy to acquire . . .

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Originally Posted by Blackjack

They're are less than 10-15 players that could come in and do a passable job at filling Bowen's defensive role. They're are probably around 5 that could stay on the court because they have the ability to knock down the 3 at a respectable rate or that's defense is solid and their offense would be an upgrade over Bowen.

Top of my head: Webster, Ariza, Battier, Pietrus, Afflalo and someone's slippin' my mind at the moment.

But to suffice is to say, there's not many and they ain't all that easy to acquire . . .

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Kobe? :stirpot:

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Originally Posted by lurker23

Kobe? :stirpot:

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Sure, if he wants to come in and play the Bowen role, I guess we could give it a shot. :lol

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Originally Posted by Nathan89

The pg stopper in g.hill is not a replacement of bruce because pg stoppers are not as valuable as sf stoppers. Most of the elite teams have a elite sg or sf on the team, that needs to be disrupted by a defensive player on the spurs. G.hill's also has to play half of his minutes at the sg position because he is on the court with parker. That transforms him from a pg stopper to a average sg defender at best. That is why I would want to trade g.hill if the spurs resign parker.

On the bright side for the 15 minutes per game he is on the court without parker he can be a pg stopper against the opposing teams backup pg.:)

On the not so bright side bruce use to play 32 minutes per game on the best sg/sf/dirk in the league.:(

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I disagree. The league has become a point-guard dominant league. If you can slow down the point guard you can disrupt the whole offense. That's why we might be able to get away without having to have a stopper at the SF position as long as we have G.Hill shadowing opposing PG's and playmaking SG's...