I do not think he was mentioning stars. Just role players. I think he was talking about artest though.Quote:
Originally Posted by lurker23
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I do not think he was mentioning stars. Just role players. I think he was talking about artest though.Quote:
Originally Posted by lurker23
Don't actually like him as a fit offensively, much the same as Laker fan found out, but I'd definitely take him over a lot of the options.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathan89
No. I'm saying that the extremity of it is certainly undeserved. RJ bears the brunt of the blame for the Spurs failures last season and absolutely no credit for their success at all. Zero.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathan89
I think I am pointing out the extreme behavior on the board when it comes to both subjects. I am obviously not referring to anyone who can be somewhat rational expressing their opinions, but some people sound like mental cases. Obviously, Hairston should have received more of an opportunity, but for whatever reason, he did not. I watched almost every game last year and I can say that I did not see enough to make a case for Hairston being a big part of the organization going forward. I think he is an athletic and talented player who is still very raw.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackjack
The only two teams to worry about are the lakers and heat. I am not worried about the Laker pg or the Heat pg. Since I am talking about two positions more teams will have their star at one of those positions. There is definitly more stars at the sg and sf combined than the pg position. Bruce could have guarded either sg or sf but g.hill can just guard the pg. That makes a sf stopper like bruce more valuable than a pg stopper like g.hill.Quote:
Originally Posted by G-Dawgg
Facts:
-Hill plays roughly 15min per game and much of that is against a backup pg. I am not affraid of to many backup pgs.
-The other 15min per game he plays at sg and he is average at best at defending the good ones.
Bowen's defensive presence won't be seen in the league for quite some time. It's rare to find a player who can stop or slow down the opposing teams best player physically and mentally.
Our best chance is like the OP said, team defense. Besides Ginoboli and maybe Hill we really don't have that perimeter defensive stopper(sorry rj). This seasons team should try to pattern their D after the 1999 team. They didn't have bowen but they good all around team defense. An aging sean elliott and jaren jackson were the wings and they had the twin towers protecting the paint. This year RJ:rolleyes and whomever is the other SF will have to take on the role of the ninja and JJ while Timmy and Tiago protect the paint.
To be fair, they have representation on message boards just like anywhere else -- mental cases, that is. Can't really get around it, nor would I really want to, tbh. They can be mighty entertaining at times.Quote:
Originally Posted by ohmwrecker
Is he raw, yeah, if we're speaking to his all-around play (mostly as a ballhandler). But if we're speaking to the notion of him as a role player and someone to come in and fill the gaps and be a presence even if not starring? I think if he'd been given Bogans' opportunity and proved capable of being the shooter he was as his career progressed at Oregon and the shooter he was with the Toros, it's not hard to see him being a part of the Spurs' supporting cast moving forward -- you had Manu saying he could see Hairston being the Spurs' small forward of the future.Quote:
Obviously, Hairston should have received more of an opportunity, but for whatever reason, he did not. I watched almost every game last year and I can say that I did not see enough to make a case for Hairston being a big part of the organization going forward. I think he is an athletic and talented player who is still very raw.
He's obviously not at Bowen's level as a defender but there's no reason to think he couldn't do a respectable job defending on the wing and bring his ability to get to the hole with his athleticism on the other end to bring another aspect to the game -- that's it he proves capable of being the spot-up shooter he's shown at the college and D-League level.
I'm fine with Malik taking the money and opportunity to go overseas and refine his game while securing his finances. I honestly think it was best for him and the Spurs, seeing as the Spurs look like they intend on Anderson being a pretty big part of the team moving forward, Neal was brought in to help with their lack of 3-point shooting (which would suggest he's gotta play to help) and because they've already got 3 of their top 5 or 6 players playing at the 2/3 in Ginobili, Hill and Jefferson.
There's just not enough time for a guy like Malik to play, and given the fact that his D-League eligibility has been exhausted, Gee makes more sense under the circumstance -- they can move Gee back-and-forth as they deem necessary.
For entertain value, I agree. Unfortunately, the sheer volume of extremist rhetoric too often gets muddled with the balanced, realistic approach and tends to derail the discussion. It becomes a fallback for people who want to participate by repeating the lie until it becomes a perceived truth. I guess the saving grace is that it seems cyclical. I see the board as a living, breathing organism. Kind of like a fungus.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackjack
Fungus has it's uses, whether it's for cooking or recreational hallucinogenics. :tu
Oh, and I'd just like to salute ohmwrecker for using the word "Boondoggle."
Dat der's a great word.:tu
Speaking of derailing a thread:
I take another view. The play of the interior defense, mainly Duncan. Duncan was a great inside defender because of his ability to use his length while getting to spots because he rotated quickly. Duncan erased mistakes. Duncan has slowed down tremedously. He does not get to spots as quickly and his only advantage now is more immobile length. His anticipation is hampered by his inability to move as well. Maybe playing fewer minutes will help a bit, but its not a total solution.
Bowen was a great defender. But he was allowed to let people get by him and funnel them to the interior. This is a great advantage for any defender. They can gamble more. Bowen could actually play people from behind after getting beat and still be disruptive due to Duncan patrolling the middle. Imo, Bowen's decline matches Timmy slowing down. There was no doubt Bowen slowed down, but I think he could have still played with a young Duncan.
I think Duncan's ability to challenge the right shots and the right time in the Spurs rotation was very underrated during the championships. And when he had Robinson to help, it was a huge weapon. We could push all the way out on 3 point shooters and make them either drive (and get blocked) or recover and make the opponent shoot a disrupted jumper for two points. We no longer can push out on 3 point shooters and still protect the rim or make the other team shoot jumpers inside the arc that are challenged. This is why Phoenix killed us. They could do anything they wanted offensively. Our only chance was for them to shoot poorly. Eventually they found their range in every game.
So opponents now get clean looks at 3 points. Or if we do push out, they get layups or uncontested jumpers. Its a real problem. Splitter will add length and mobility so he will be a help. But he is not a shot blocker. Splitter is more likely to draw a charge than block a shot.
Corey Brewer son.
How does ANYONE know that Pop is doing this or doing that. It is a bit presumptuous to say that Pop is trying to do this or Pop is trying to find this type of player or Pop is looking for a Bowen replacement....ad nauseum...
Who decided that Pop is doing whatever?
Maybe WE as fans THINK that the spurs should have a 7 footer next to TD and that there should be a long, athletic SF....but Pop may not even be looking for one...
I have been scratching my head over the last 3 years when I see the moves Pop has made and have stopped trying.
Pop signed off on signing Matt Fuckin' Bonner,remember?
Why would you or anyone ASSUME that Pop is trying to run the same defense or that Pop is trying to recreate the championship era defense?
WE might hope for that but I am not sure anymore what Pop has in mind because it is pretty peculiar that the pieces that have been acquired seem to be short a few logical prototypes...at LEAST in OUR opinions.
Pop, on the other hand may be building an entirely different and unconventional team.
Duncan's ability as an interior defender was diminished the day he had a co-interior defender taken away from him. As soon as he had to try to defend the paint by himself, the Spurs' defense began to slip.
Thank you. :tuQuote:
Originally Posted by DPG21920
Yeah. Do it!Quote:
Originally Posted by DPG21920
Quote:
Originally Posted by Obstructed_View
I would agree with also. The biggest factor is age imo.
Shutdown perimeter defenders usually have a middle that guards the rim or you dont notice them. I cant really think of a single guy considered a shutdown defender that did not have some fairly significant rim guarding.
+1Quote:
Originally Posted by pgardn
It's all about team defense; good rotations can cover up (minor) individual mistakes, and one good defender in a bad system can do almost nothing. You don't have to have a shutdown perimeter defender to have a good team defense...heck, the Spurs were 8th in defensive efficiency last season! That's hardly bad.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seventyniner
No 8th is not bad. But we pride ourselves on this. And the Phoenix series really exposed our weaknesses. We were just flat out bad. Their second string guard made Hill look like a fool. Way too many 2nd chance points. Sometimes its good to get trashed, it allows reality to hit you in the face.
Bowen's elite defense, 3 point shooting from the corners (which thankfully he also advised Hill to specialize), championship experience, corporate knowledge, physicality, durability, and professionalism make up a tall if not impossible order to fill. RJ's got the durability and professionalism but those seem like the strengths he shares with Bowen right now; however like Tony Parker said - players have shown to improve in the 2nd year. RJ's a better and more athletic offensive talent than Bowen and those are traits that were weaknesses for the Spurs especially in this stage of the Big 3's legs.
However when it comes to the bigger question of whats been holding back the Spurs the most from a fifth championship --- I'm going to go with health being the main reason although far from the only arguable reason. It sucks to remember watching an injured Manu back in '08 while Kobe and Spike Lee were Doin' Work, Manu being gone completely in the playoffs in '09, and then this recent season where TP was injured throughout and Manu got his nose broken. Meanwhile Duncan seems to get worn out by having to carry the interior defense mostly due to lack of competent and athletic size to help and he's getting older...which Tiago should be a significant improvement in. I'm preaching to the choir but all of the Big 3 are pivotal for getting past the West especially against the Gasol Lakers unless the Spurs see players start to emerge like Rondo and to an extent what even Big Baby and Donkey did for the Celtics.
In the end though this season seems like the most likely where the Big 3 are all healthy, rested, and ready (Manu was pretty rusty and not as strong in the beginning of the last season due to injury; Tony Parker's got millions at stake since his contract's expiring). With the added experience we should also see a better RJ, Hill, and Blair and hopefully Tiago and Anderson will help address weaknesses. :flag:
Bruce could still come give us one great year. But whatever...
:pop: :pctoss
spurs should hire bruce as a coach...
Guys like Bruce set the tone. He took pride in raising to the challenge.
Our defensive decline is the sum of various factors, including Bowen's departure, an aging Duncan, some players that are simply not good/smart defenders, and some fresh faces that still have a lot to learn among other things.
I think if we keep on playing the same kind of defense we had in the last couple of seasons, we'll be playoff fodder, much like last season. Some things are inevitable, like Duncan aging or dumb defenders, but there's always hope the new guys can bring some good defense and surprise us all.
As much as I respect Pop, his achilles heal is his stubborness.
Bruce still had a year or two left in the tank when Pop bailed on him. Pop's doghouse is a tough place to get out of, and Bruce became a casualty of Pop's stubborness.
The series against the Suns this past playoffs...you think Dragic goes off against Bruce?
Answer: Hell no