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http://bleacherreport.com/tb/b59ST
Just wondering what you guys make out of this top 5 list
1. TD
2. Admiral
3. Ice
4. Manu
5. Elliott
TP out of top 5 ?
It's interesting that Manu is considered greater than TP inpite of TP's finals MVP. Altough I can buy that. I'm not sure about Luck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_Lu ck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_ being greater than TP. I'd still go with TP over Elliott
Jesus Christ guys, it's the fuckin bleacher report. Raise the bar!
Ha, ha! Typo.
I would substitute Tony where Manu is. Tony's been a 3 time All Star (I can see a few more in his future) and a Finals MVP. Manu's been a great player for us but he hasn't accomplished as much individually as some of those other players on the list (Sixth Man shouldn't really count).
My top 5
1. TD
2. Robinson
3. Gervin
4. Tony Parker ...... Finals MVP ups him to 4
5a Manu Ginobilli .... Injuries drop him to 5a
5b Sean Elliott
I love Sean Elliott to pieces, but really? He doesn't belong up there with TD, David, Gervin, and Parker. AJ should be there ahead of Sean, though I'm not sure that's the right person for the fifth spot either. Nor am I convinced Manu should be there either, but again, I'd take him over Sean. And I say this not to dis Sean - I love Sean. But one of the Spurs' greatest players? Come on.
I agree with the list, but this speaks volumes to me...
The Spurs won 19 division titles and in 43 seasons in the NBA, they made it to the playoffs 40 times.
Well the fact that he accepted to be a six man is the reason he didn't accomplish as much individually, so it's unfair to don't count that award. Besides who cares about all-star games? specially when he has been clearly snubbed a couple of times. In '07 and '10 Manu got MVP votes and wasn't in the all-star game. What's better to be considered as an MVP candidate or go to the all-star game?Quote:
Originally Posted by TMTTRIO
"The San Antonio Spurs is...." (twice). This article is writed by an idiot.
1. Duncan
2. Robinson
3. Ginobili
4. Parker
5. Bowen
I think if you're going to say that there's a tie, it's more likely a tie between Parker and Ginobili.Quote:
Originally Posted by lebomb
I'd still say Parker is probably the better player as between himself and Manu and the more important guy to the Spurs successes, and for that reason, I'd make Parker the clear #4 and Manu #5 by himself. I loved Sean Elliott as a player, but I think there's a significant difference between the way that Sean impacted games and the way that Manu does.
And if you're going to give Parker an uptick for having been a Finals MVP, I think Manu probably deserves similar treatment for having played well enough in the 2005 Finals to have been the MVP of that series.
I second this. Sean was a great Spur but without one shot, I don't think most people put him in the top five.Quote:
Originally Posted by Supergirl
Time Duncan
Admiral
Gervin
Manu
Rod Strickland
But seriously though, I think Manu is hands down a better b-ball player than Sean or TP.
1. Duncan
2. Robinson
3. Ice
4. Parker
5. Manu
Duncan
Robinson
Ice
Ginobili
Sleepy Floyd
Duncan
Robinson
Ice
Ginobili
Parker
In 4,5 years.. Splitter
Duncan
Robinson
Manu
Ice
Parker
Manu > Parker
... derp
1)TD
2)DRob
3a)Manu
3b)Gervin
4)TP
5)Sean
It's "best" players, and so far, Manu is up there.
Hopefully, TP can catch up (most likely, will).
Pretty good. I would make the following adjustment:Quote:
Originally Posted by Spur_Fanatic
1 Duncan
2 Robinson
3 Gervin
4a Ginobili
4b Parker
5 Elliott
Best player should not be weighed by the number of rings. Winning a championship is a team effort. Duncan is considered the best PF of all time. Duncan has benn great, but this speaks loads as to the quality of players at the PF position verses the C or SG position. Robinson is one of the top centers, but I always felt he could have done more if he was more hungry as a player. Of course he always played with inferior talent along side.
This leads me to the best player of all time as a Spur, and that is George Gervin. Most here never got to see hiim play. He was nothing short of amazing. The only shooting guard I would take ahead of him is Jordan. He is under appreciated because it has been so long since anyone has seen him play. There may be good arguments as to why he is not the best, but he was by far the most entertaining.
I'm a fan since 94 so I won't put Ice because I didn't see him play
1 - Duncan
2 - Robinson
3 - Manu
4 - Parker
5 - Bowen
:tuQuote:
Originally Posted by Spurs Brazil
Um......strickland, yeah game 7 1990 semi-finals. nough said?Quote:
Originally Posted by cantthinkofanything
This.Quote:
Originally Posted by DesignatedT
OK, I am sure you have a reason for Gervin not being on this list. Care to share your thoughts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Obstructed_View
Pretty much.Quote:
Originally Posted by ohmwrecker
Everyone putting one of TP before or head of Manu are not being objective. TP and Manu have taken turns being all-star level in the playoffs and in the regular season. Both have been just as important to our championships on balance. Neither has had to be the 1st option more than the other.
Too hard to compare Gervin b/c he did not have the talent that the Spurs had during their runs. DR carried the Spurs for a decade and was MVP, so he obviously gets ahead of all but TD.
Keeping Gervin off the list is insane, the guy is no doubt 3rd. Although I do believe Bowen should get some more consideration despite his offensive struggles. People don't seem to discount Parker as much even though he clearly struggles on the defensive end of the court.
1. Tim Duncan
2. David Robinson
3. George Gervin
4. Tony Parker
5. Sean Elliott
6. Avery Johnson
7. Bruce Bowen
8. Manu Ginobili
9. Artis Gilmore
10. Robert Horry
I would like to hear the logic that puts AJ ahead of manu.Quote:
Originally Posted by Darrin
Aj: never an all-star: Manu: all-star.
aj: never CLOSE to being finals MVP: Manu: got votes in 05.
aj: never carried the Spurs for any stretch. Manu: carried end of this year, and in previous years carried the team for stretches.
aj: one-dimensional slasher with VERY shaky jumper who was able to pass, but was smart and bossy enough to be a "leader."
Manu: all-around player. Plays balls-to-the-wall. Intangibles like Horry, where he gets that rebound you needed, or the steal, or the assist, or the score. Clutch. Warrior. Everything you want in a player, except that he fouled dirk with 1 second left leading by 3 in game 7; his one big mistake. And he is too injury prone to be the lead dog on a team over an 82-game season.
Otherwise, it is not close. at all.
:lmaoQuote:
Originally Posted by Darrin
If I had to make an all time 12 man team this is how I would do it:
C - Robinson
PF - Duncan
SF - Bowen
SG - Gervin
PG - Parker
My Bench would be
Manu
Sean
Avery Johnson
Artis Gilmore
Terry Cummings
Mike Mitchell
James Silas
1. Duncan
2. Robinson
3. Ice
4. Ginobili
5. Tony
-- Bruce just missed the cut
Ice lower than 3rd? Never.
Malik Rose FTW
Mainly because of defense and championships.Quote:
Originally Posted by rogcl1
Ridiculous to leave a HOFer like Gervin out:
1. Duncan
2. D-Rob
3. Gervin
4. Manu
5. Tony Parker
lol yea.. any spurs top 5 list without robinson, duncan, and gervin as top 3 is a laugher..
Ice was poetry in motion. If you have not seen him play try to get some old tapes of him. He had the knock to make incredible shots, the sweetest finger roll and four scoring championships. Gervin was a mofo and most definetly deserves to be in the top 5.
1. Tim Duncan
2. David Robinson
3. George Gervin
4. Tony Parker
5. Sean Elliott
6. James Silas
7. Avery Johnson
8. Manu Ginobili
9. Artis Gilmore
10.Larry Kenon & Mike Mitchell (tie)
shit from when i grew up watching the spurs its tim or manu no question about it
No way. Robinson was way more athletic which people love and he had the goods but no way can you say the spurs would have won 6 if he took Duncans spot. You are forgetting some of the most important pieces in a basketball player like leadership, composure, clutch, consistency and the mentality to carry a team on your back... all things Duncan has over Robinson. Love DROB to death but fact is he didn't get it done until Duncan did it for him no matter what the excuses are that is still fact.Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas 2 Step
1.) Tim Duncan
2.) David Robinson
3.) Manu Ginobili
4.) George Gervin
5.) Tony Parker
DRob was my idol growing up (never liked Jordan), and an absolute BEAST of an athlete. Shit, he'd make Dwight Howard look like a fatty, and to this day, I'd still have my money on the Admiral if it came down to a fistfight between him and Timmy.
But sheer athleticism and big numbers do not a basketball player make. Timmy's leadership in the clutch (yes, he took copious notes on that from the Admiral, I believe) is ultimately what took this franchise from perennial also-ran to legitimate contender year in and year out.
drob was beast but tim is one of the best of all time... ever , to me its tim-manu-drob, but thats just me i cant speak for yallQuote:
Originally Posted by Texas 2 Step
I can't believe I am seeing Avery Johnson's name even being mentioned.
1. For most of his time with the Spurs the FO was actively trying to replace him. And they did get rid of him once.
2. His lack of a decent mid-range jump shot was one of THE main reasons the mid-90's Spurs couldn't win in the playoffs.
3. He never made the Allstar team. He simply wasn't considered one of the best PG's of his era. I'm not sure he was even considered above average for most of his career, and I was watching a lot of basketball bach then.
4. He did have a good run in 1999, and he did improve throughout his career due to his great work ethic. Still, too little too late.
5. There is NO WAY he should ever be ranked ahead of players like Manu and TP, whick I have seen on the occasion. Manu and TP are Allstars, game-changers, etc.
Agree that DRob had a terrible backcourt with Del Negro and Avery, and that he never could have won a ring with those 2 guards. However, I have to disagree with your idea that Duncan is not more clutch than DRob. I love Robinson with tremendous man-love, but he wasn't a great clutch player. He just wasn't. Sorry.Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas 2 Step
On the other hand, Duncan is fierce in the playoffs and from 1999-2007 he waqs such a competitive force. Being clutch isn't all about making last second shots, although he did that too. It is more about bringing intensity, making defensive stops and just competing. TD is super competitive in the most fundamental way. He REALLY wants to win.
What?Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas 2 Step
Are you implying that Duncan isn't clutch? If you are then just wow. There is a lot more to leadership than calling people out. I don't want to get into a Duncan vs Robinson argument because I love both players but you are a fucking idiot for saying Duncan isn't a leader. Everyone knows who's team this has been for the last decade and it's his locker room presence and his leadership by example on and off the court that have made this franchise the most successful one over the last decade. No way is Robinson was more clutch or mentally tougher than Duncan. Duncan performed his best when the games meant something, something you can't say about Robinson.Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas 2 Step
1. Tim Duncan
2. David Robinson
3. George Gervin
4. Tony Parker - Manu Ginobili
5. Sean Elliott
Manu's teams were better....but this is an individual comparison. For what edge Manu has on Ice in defense, Ice more than makes up with in offense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Obstructed_View
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas 2 Step
I also love Robinson but no way he was a better basketball player than Duncan. Athletically Robinson is probably the most agile center of all time.
But...
Robinson had a very poor post up game. For a guy built like David, he just did not have the big butt and downstair strength of Duncan.
All left handed. David never did develop his right hand.
Hands. Davids were good, but not even close to Duncan.
imo, its not even close. And David knew this the moment they practiced together, which is why I admire David so much. David knew Tim was a superior BB talent. This is why they worked so well together. And David is partially responsible for Tim being so good with his feet and hands. Its the only way to score on David when they practiced.
Hopefully Duncan can teach Splitter some tricks.
Its funny how Alvin Roberston and Johnny Moore got left off.
Maybe because one is a criminal and the other an a-hole.
Duncan
Robinson
Manu
Ice
Tony
Tony's MVP was nice but Cleveland had no answer for him. Who guarded him ? Does anyone remember ? Gibson ? One legged Hughes ? They had NO one to guard him.
The Spurs took what they were given and Tony made layups on his way to the finals MVP.
Manu should have won the MVP in 2006 when they beat the Pistons.
I only said it to piss off the person who asked about it. Bowen deserves a mention even if he wouldn't actually make the top five. I would love to see Manu play as the best player on those old teams though.Quote:
Originally Posted by samikeyp
lmao @ drob vs. duncan..
basically.. duncan is drob's 2nd coming.. except duncan plays a different style..
drob was more power duncan's more finesse.. both still impacted the game in the best way possible.. ;)
You never saw Drob play much did you ? I'm thinking you are in your early to mid 20's and caught David near the end of his career. He was all finesse and relied on his athleticism more than anything. More power than Duncan ? Not even close.Quote:
Originally Posted by jimo2305
Why would you be trying to piss me off because I simply asked what your logic was for leaving Gervin off? Why would I get pissed off? Was that an unfair question? Then what was the real reason ? I have better things to be pissed off about than some internet message board.Quote:
Originally Posted by Obstructed_View
I saw Gervin play his first game here and probably more than half of all of his games here except for the last year and I know he wasn't an all star defensive player. But he was one of the most talented offensive players to ever play the game. How many championships did Robinson win without Duncan, and how many championships would Parker win without Duncan?
I do agree with you that it would have been fun to see Manu play as the main man on one of the old Spurs teams.
1.td
2.robinson
3.MANU
4.ice
5.tp
Yet you still manage to get yourself all riled up. The tone was pretty clear that you were looking for a fight when you posted. My reason for not including Gervin is the same as the other people who didn't have him on the list: I didn't see him play enough to give an honest evaluation of who he was as a player. I simply know he's a legendary scorer with no rings. Your opinions of him aren't going to change mine, because they're based on what you saw.Quote:
Originally Posted by rogcl1
My original post wasn't meant to pick a fight, I just asked if you cared to share why you left Gervin off . You are the one who in another post said you were just trying to piss me off with your response of no rings or defense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Obstructed_View
How many championships would Parker and Robinson , or Bowen or Manu have won without Duncan? You have a good night. I really am not trying to pick a fight, just trying to make a point.
I think one of the big debates is : who is greater Manu or Tony ? . Although I agree Tony has more regular season acomplishments. Manu seems to be more of the borometer of how far the Spurs go into the playoffs. To highlight this fact, Look at how many big baskets Manu has scored in the last 2 minutes for playoff wins decided by less than 5 points.
The last point, although this is about who is the greatest Spur. Internationally Manu is recognized as one of the greatest players of all time. I'm not kidding. How many players can you mention led their country to the highest prize internationaly ( an Olympic Gold) you would be lucky to find 10 players in history to have done that. * in some cases where the US won gold no one player was the clear leader or was really invaluable for the USA to win.
lol actually you're right about my age :lolQuote:
Originally Posted by tmtcsc
but you dont' agree d rob was more power than finesse?.. by power i don't mean he was dunkin' thru people's throats like shaq or nothing.. but i never saw a game nor highlight where drob was scoring off hook shots and down low post fakes.. i figure duncan had him beat in that category.. jus sayin'