Anchor Babies and amending the 14th amendment

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08-12-2010
ChumpDumper

Re: Anchor Babies and amending the 14th amendment

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drachen

It would probably be more like issuing a different birth certificate. Something like a birth cert with all of the normal info, and "NON-CITIZEN" printed across the top.

I don't know, this is just theoretical.

So now county health offices would have to verify the immigration status of both parents of every child born in the state?

Seems impractical if not impossible.
08-12-2010
CosmicCowboy

Re: Anchor Babies and amending the 14th amendment

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

So now county health offices would have to verify the immigration status of both parents of every child born in the state?

Seems impractical if not impossible.

Difficult but not impossible.

State drivers license offices already require birth certificate and SS# for a drivers license. Just require the same for State ID's for non-drivers.

Then all one parent has to do is show state ID.
08-12-2010
ChumpDumper

Re: Anchor Babies and amending the 14th amendment

Quote:

Originally Posted by CosmicCowboy

Difficult but not impossible.

State drivers license offices already require birth certificate and SS# for a drivers license. Just require the same for State ID's for non-drivers.

Then all one parent has to do is show state ID.

Or just lie and say the absent father is a citizen.

How would anyone be able to prove the mother wrong?
08-12-2010
CosmicCowboy

Re: Anchor Babies and amending the 14th amendment

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

Or just lie and say the absent father is a citizen.

How would anyone be able to prove the mother wrong?

No problem. we'll give you the birth certificate when he shows us his drivers license.
08-12-2010
Drachen

Re: Anchor Babies and amending the 14th amendment

Quote:

Originally Posted by CosmicCowboy

No problem. we'll give you the birth certificate when he shows us his drivers license.

Ehh, yeah, this is actually a stumbling block.

One night stands etc
08-12-2010
CosmicCowboy

Re: Anchor Babies and amending the 14th amendment

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drachen

Ehh, yeah, this is actually a stumbling block.

One night stands etc

If the mom ain't legal, isn't married, and doesn't know who the dad is I don't see it as a problem. Baby gets a non-citizen Birth Certificate.
08-12-2010
Drachen

Re: Anchor Babies and amending the 14th amendment

Quote:

Originally Posted by CosmicCowboy

If the mom ain't legal, isn't married, and doesn't know who the dad is I don't see it as a problem. Baby gets a non-citizen Birth Certificate.

I guess, I could still go along with it, but it makes me feel very uncomfortable. There will (regularly) be babies whose birthright it is to be an american citizen who will be denied their citizenship.

I would rather find another way if possible.
08-12-2010
ChumpDumper

Re: Anchor Babies and amending the 14th amendment

Quote:

Originally Posted by CosmicCowboy

No problem. we'll give you the birth certificate when he shows us his drivers license.

So, until then, that baby doesn't exist?

What if the father is dead?

Show us the dead father's driver's license.

Impractical.
08-12-2010
clambake

Re: Anchor Babies and amending the 14th amendment

why not just get any guy with a drivers license?
08-12-2010
Drachen

Re: Anchor Babies and amending the 14th amendment

Quote:

Originally Posted by clambake

why not just get any guy with a drivers license?

Because then he has responsibilities.

I do think that there has to be another way, though. As I said, I would be uncomfortable with this setup.
08-12-2010
clambake

Re: Anchor Babies and amending the 14th amendment

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drachen

Because then he has responsibilities.

sure, if she presses him. then she'd be foiled by her own truth.
08-12-2010
ChumpDumper

Re: Anchor Babies and amending the 14th amendment

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drachen

Because then he has responsibilities.

Not if he's dead. I could see a whole cottage industry springing up running a registry of recently deceased male citizens.
08-12-2010
Drachen

Re: Anchor Babies and amending the 14th amendment

All I could come up with right now Chumper, do you have any other ideas which don't reward people for breaking the law?
08-12-2010
MiamiHeat

Re: Anchor Babies and amending the 14th amendment

Quote:

Originally Posted by CosmicCowboy

The supreme Court interprets the constitution all the time.

Maybe it's time for a legal challenge to the interpretation of the 14th while Roberts is still Chief Justice.

Do it in Texas and it would have a decent chance of clearing the 5th district.

They would be doing the right thing down in Texas.

from wiki :

During discussion of whether to pass the 14th Amendment, there was debate over granting citizenship to anyone born in the United States. The author of the 14th Amendment Citizenship Clause, Senator Jacob M. Howard, stated, in reference to the Amendment, "This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the family of ambassadors, or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States, but will include every other class of persons."[4]
08-12-2010
CosmicCowboy

Re: Anchor Babies and amending the 14th amendment

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

Not if he's dead. I could see a whole cottage industry springing up running a registry of recently deceased male citizens.

Chump, that why they don't write laws in one sentence posts on message boards. If it was ever done (and I'm pretty sure it won't be) they would address all the little pissant issues you keep bringing up.
08-12-2010
Drachen

Re: Anchor Babies and amending the 14th amendment

This too is true, I was thinking more brainstorming than a final draft of a bill.
08-12-2010
ChumpDumper

Re: Anchor Babies and amending the 14th amendment

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drachen

All I could come up with right now Chumper, do you have any other ideas which don't reward people for breaking the law?

Eh, the reward comes mainly after the kid turns 21, and even then that reward is citizenship for more family members so they can pay taxes and make real wages.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CosmicCowboy

Chump, that why they don't write laws in one sentence posts on message boards. If it was ever done (and I'm pretty sure it won't be) they would address all the little pissant issues you keep bringing up.

I would consider facile and complete circumvention of the law as more than a little pissant issue. Don't get mad because it was so easy to make a mockery of the proposed law that quickly.
08-12-2010
Drachen

Re: Anchor Babies and amending the 14th amendment

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

Eh, the reward comes mainly after the kid turns 21, and even then that reward is citizenship for more family members so they can pay taxes and make real wages

I would consider facile and complete circumvention of the law as more than a little pissant issue. Don't get mad because it was so easy to make a mockery of the proposed law that quickly.

and access services that they haven't paid into yet.
08-12-2010
ElNono

Re: Anchor Babies and amending the 14th amendment

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drachen

and access services that they haven't paid into yet.

Such as?
08-12-2010
ChumpDumper

Re: Anchor Babies and amending the 14th amendment

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drachen

and access services that they haven't paid into yet.

That's true of any naturalized citizen.

Are you against all naturalization?
08-13-2010
LnGrrrR

Re: Anchor Babies and amending the 14th amendment

Quote:

Originally Posted by CosmicCowboy

The supreme Court interprets the constitution all the time.

Maybe it's time for a legal challenge to the interpretation of the 14th while Roberts is still Chief Justice.

Do it in Texas and it would have a decent chance of clearing the 5th district.

Wait, I thought interpreting the Constitution was being an ACTIVIST JUDGE! or something.

Given the origins of the bill, the debates had during the Amendment going over that very same idea (anchor babies), and the fact that it still passed, I would say the courts would be nearly unanimous against changing how one acquires citizenship.
08-13-2010
LnGrrrR

Re: Anchor Babies and amending the 14th amendment

Quote:

Originally Posted by CosmicCowboy

If the mom ain't legal, isn't married, and doesn't know who the dad is I don't see it as a problem. Baby gets a non-citizen Birth Certificate.

I'm pretty sure that SCOTUS might not be ok with that. "Guess what orphans! You're no longer Americans!"
08-13-2010
LnGrrrR

Re: Anchor Babies and amending the 14th amendment

Quote:

Originally Posted by CosmicCowboy

Chump, that why they don't write laws in one sentence posts on message boards. If it was ever done (and I'm pretty sure it won't be) they would address all the little pissant issues you keep bringing up.

Wait, wait. Since when do you trust politicians to be able to a) correctly write a law and b) prevent unintended consequences?
08-13-2010
LnGrrrR

Re: Anchor Babies and amending the 14th amendment

Quote:

Originally Posted by MiamiHeat

They would be doing the right thing down in Texas.

from wiki :

During discussion of whether to pass the 14th Amendment, there was debate over granting citizenship to anyone born in the United States. The author of the 14th Amendment Citizenship Clause, Senator Jacob M. Howard, stated, in reference to the Amendment, "This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the family of ambassadors, or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States, but will include every other class of persons."[4]

If you read earlier in this thread, you'd see how that was actually meant to be applied. Thanks for playing.
08-13-2010
CosmicCowboy

Re: Anchor Babies and amending the 14th amendment

Quote:

Originally Posted by LnGrrrR

Wait, wait. Since when do you trust politicians to be able to a) correctly write a law and b) prevent unintended consequences?

good point. Silly me...:lol

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