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Signing off for evening w/two items: Spurs hope to re-hire Danny Ferry/Suns ex David Griffin rising in Denver GM search
This just posted by Mark Stein.
Fascinating...
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STEIN_LINE_HQ
Signing off for evening w/two items: Spurs hope to re-hire Danny Ferry/Suns ex David Griffin rising in Denver GM search
This just posted by Mark Stein.
Fascinating...
Would be nice to finally have some solid additions to the front office. We've lost so many heads in recent years.
Besides... it's an excuse this...:rollin
http://dunkside.com/nba/wp-content/u...shaq_ferry.jpg
Ferry pulled off some serious moves while in Cleveland. Him in the office should help the organization tremendously.
Spurs have a big hole to fill in their FO with Dell Demps gone. Ferry would be a nice replacement.
Sweet! :hat
:tu
After all the drama that unfolded for and against Ferry in Cleveland, he should welcome the opportunity to come back home. Hope this works out for all.
Getting Ferry back would be a great move for the FO. In addition, it would be one less team GM out there hunting for Spurs targeted picks come draft day.
Good. He can teach Matt Bonner how to throw an elbow.
Finally the veteran SF backup we were waiting for!
...wait, he is coming as a FO executive?
:tu
Word......Danny Ferry, you have a chance to help the Spurs FO....COME ON DOWN!
Would love for him to come here.
agreed come back ferry
Ferry's reign in Cleveland will go down as one of the greatest fails in the history of the NBA.Quote:
Originally Posted by blkroadrunners
not because of some obvious McHale/Isiah/Walllace type moves, but because of one of the greatest missed opportunities ever.
he made a myriad of moves and later almost none turned out to have been the right move to improve the team and build a champion around one of the greatest talents in the history of basketball.
Lebrons talent hid a lot, but in the end of the day it was Ferry's fail that drove him out of town.
Agreed ^
I approve. I always liked Danny Ferry. He's smart and that's one thing this FO needs. The Spurs brass seems to be getting leaner with every year.
It may go down that way but I have a feeling thats not the way it actually was. Its funny how EVERY preseason the media was all over Cleaveland and how they had a great team then come the post season when Lebron got ousted they'd say the opposite and how the team wasn't strong enough to help him win.Quote:
Originally Posted by mountainballer
I'd have to say Lebron isn't going to get his share of the blame. Ferry probably shares some of the blame, but I think he did a damn good job trying out new things with what he had around him. I can't remember if he was the one who drafted Boozer, but if he was then its not on him that they lost Boozer.
N/M everything Boozer happened well before Ferry. I think the point still stands though.
Ferry built a young team that went to the finals and had the best record in the NBA at least twice. Ferry didn't fuck Lebron's mom, and Ferry didn't quit in the middle of a playoff run.
Ferry did an ok job, but he never built a legit team. Lebron covered up a lot of his mistakes, not the other way around. While the Cavs were solid, that is easy to do w a player like Bron. Ferry did not do nearly enough IMO.
+1Quote:
Originally Posted by mountainballer
Like not landing STAT because he didn't want to include JJ in the trade.
He's better than Bogans...:toast
:lol
Quote:
Originally Posted by DPG21920
Maybe Ferry should have negotiated a clause in LeBron's contract that would have allowed him to tell LeBron to shut the fuck up and play basketball? Maybe he should have sent LeBron back to school to learn that talent wins regular season games, but teamwork and chemistry win championships? Is that what you're saying he should have done? Because you're right - it is easy to be "solid" with a player like LeBron. But it's damned difficult to win it all with a player like LeBron. And unless LeBron grows up and figures some shit out on his own, he will wind up being the best player never to get a ring.
The Cavs had more than enough talent surrounding LeBron to win it all - especially the last couple of years, and their regular-season record showed it. But the deeper it gets into the season, the more LeBron turns the spotlight on himself, and the more of a distraction it becomes. All that talent in Miami might allow them to overcome that... but it might not.
There's a reason Terell Owens has never won a Superbowl. His teams were loaded with talent. (The Niners went 12-4, 12-4, 13-3, and 12-4 in his first five seasons with the team. The Eagles started 13-1, and were arguably the best team in the league.) He caught a lot of passes, made a lot of touchdowns, and sold a lot of tickets. He also created a media circus, put the spotlight on himself, and single-handedly destroyed any hint of team chemistry. And when he decided to leave his first team, he did it in a way that TOTALLY screwed them. Sound familiar?
Sometimes you can put a player like that on a team that is SO overwhelmingly talented, that they can win in spite of his presence. It worked for Randy Moss and Ray Allen, for instance. But in the age of salary caps, that is damned difficult to do. And it still usually means that the player has to be willing to shut the fuck up for a season or two. And it's always an acquiring team that benefits from it. You can't blame that on Danny Ferry. He tried to create and run a class organization. Put LeBron on the 04-05 Spurs instead of Tim Duncan, and the Pistons would have kicked our asses. And if LeBron needs two additional franchise players with him to have a shot at winning a title, that's not Danny Ferry's fault.
Danny Ferry failed in Cleveland.
This. I wouldn't want him as the GM, but as part of the FO in a consulting role would be nice.Quote:
Originally Posted by Phila_Chamberlain
lolQuote:
Originally Posted by GSH
I'd love Danny to return in some sort of capacity behind Pop and R.C. in the front-office. I'd also like it if Mike would think about returning as an assistant to Pop, again.
Danny Ferry definitely made mistakes during his tenure as Cleveland GM, as did Mike Brown, but they made those choices to appease LeBron. Everything was done to win championships with LeBron as soon as possible, but they sacrificed salary-cap space and overloading their roster with veteran players. In the end though, I think LeBron was leaving regardless of what Danny did or who was the coach. People can't complain though that Danny attempted to bring in various type of players to maximize LeBron's skill-set, but it just didn't pan out.
Losers (Cleveland) are always losers and will make excuses to explain their outcome. Ferry makes the tough decisions. He's a winner and if SA wants him back I think that's a good move.
That. +1Quote:
Originally Posted by J_Paco
For all of LeBron's talent, he's no Tim Duncan. Duncan didn't publicly call out his teammates, or publicly get involved in personnel decisions they way LeBron has. He didn't hold management hostage by making it clear that they had to do something or he was outta here. He didn't constantly talk about how he had to "put the team on his own shoulders", like LeBron does. (Which is another way of saying that he doesn't think the other players are good enough to get it done.) Everyone knew that Tim was the best player in the league, but Tim put a lot of effort into making his teammates better. LeBron doesn't do that. Sorry, he just doesn't.
David Robinson took a step back, to let the Spurs become Tim's team. David handled it with class - but so did Tim. Can you imagine how LeBron would have handled it? All the chest-thumping, and announcing that it was "his team now"? Some of you can downplay how important things like that are to a team, but you ought to know better.
You can LOL all you want to, DPG, but the Cavs had enough talent around LeBron to compile the best record in the NBA, two seasons on a row. Most GM's would get congratulated for that. Ferry isn't perfect, but he put together more than enough talent to win it all. Being the best player in the league just isn't the same thing as being the best teammate or leader in the league, and LeBron is no Tim Duncan.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mountainballer
You can't fault his effort; he did his best to answer Lebron's needs, and it's premature to compare him to McHale and Thomas. You do realize some of the moves he made, right?
When the Cavs needed a PG who can knock down 3s, they acquired Mo Williams, and all they gave up were Damon Jones and Joe Smith (who signed w/ Cleveland after he was release by OKC).
When the Cavs needed a low post force, they acquired Shaquille O'Neal (17ppg, 8 rpg) from Phoenix in exchange for Ben Wallace and Sasha Pavlovic.
When the Cavs needed a versatile PF who could spread the floor and provide offense, they acquired Antawn Jamison, only to give up Zydrunas Ilgauskas (signed w/ the Cavs after being released) and a 2010 1st rounder.
True there have been some moves that didn't pan out well (Larry Hughes signing, Ben Wallace trade), but some of the moves/trades that Ferry pulled were basically a couple of scrubs for a borderline all-star calibur player.
He did not compare Ferry to McHale or Thomas.
i don't know how much control ferry had in cleveland. he probably had to deal with gilbert and lebron's krew looking down his shoulders. nevertheless, those trades he made were pretty horrible.
Their moves, yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by DPG21920
It's not entirely Ferry's fault. They did a pretty average job after drafting LeBron and signing him surrounding him with talent and the pieces needed to help a player like him win it all. They also made a couple of bad trades, like trading for Ben Wallace, signing Larry Hughes, not resigning Carlos Boozer. The Jamison trade was actually a pretty solid trade, but the pieces they had built around LeBron were clearly not enough to take the team all the way. The 2007 NBA finals appearence was like Fools gold, it convinced Cleveland that LeBron needed some help but ultimately had what it took to take a team to the NBA finals.Quote:
Originally Posted by mountainballer
You all have it all wrong....spurs still need a back up SF----Danny Ferry
In fact, he did the opposite. So no, he did not.Quote:
Originally Posted by blkroadrunners
I would bet that a lot of the people hating Ferry weren't even paying attention to the Cavs personnel decisions over the last few years - so maybe some of you aren't aware of some of the details:
LeBron signed a 3-year extension in 2007. Why just 3 years? He did it so that he would become a free agent in 2010. And it was well publicised at the time that LeBron, Wade, and Bosh got together to talk about playing together in 2010, before he negotiated that contract.
Other teams were dismantling their rosters, for a chance to sign him in 2010. Ferry didnt' have that luxury. You hear a few people say that anything less than winning a championship is a failure, but that has never been as true for anyone else. If the Cavs had won it all, they might have been able to sign Bosh and keep LeBron. But rolling the dice on Amare Stoudamire (by giving up another solid player) wouldn't have guaranteed a title.
Cleveland's chance of keeping LeBron was never very good. And when the league (mysteriously) increased the cap number enough to allow Miami to sign all three players, their chance of keeping him became zero.
LeBron held the Cavs hostage for years. Most GM's would have been paralyzed by it. Ferry did a good job, under the circumstances. A lot of teams have been headhunting out of the Spurs' organization, and Ferry would be a good addition.
He apparently did. It was a combination of the fact that they didn't have another impact player, though this wasn't from a lack of trying to acquire one, and LeBron not taking the next step in his development. For all of the amazing things LeBron has accomplished and done, he has yet to embrace the idea of being a true leader. He can lead by either his words or actions, but in the end proves he's still very immature. Dancing around like a buffoon during blowout wins, not shaking the hand of your opponent after they whoop your ass and having stupid, look-at-me, "The Bachelor"-esque television special are proof of that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chillen
Quote:
Originally Posted by mountainballer
How exactly is that the opposite?Quote:
Originally Posted by DPG21920
Because you said he compared Ferry to McHale/Isiah type moves, when he said he will go down as a failure but "NOT because of some obvious McHale/Isiah moves", but "missed opportunities".
Danny Ferry couldnt sign any marquee free agents because none wanted to go there if they werent sure LeBron was staying.
LeBron would never give that commitment.
Ferry did the best he could with a deck stacked against him.
:bangQuote:
Originally Posted by DPG21920
Ah. Disregard my previous posts, my mistake.
I'm totally brain-fried right now.
Since Ferry worked for the Spurs at the time this happened...Quote:
Originally Posted by Chillen
^ThisQuote:
Originally Posted by Obstructed_View
It's funny how LeBron "signed off" on all these personnel moves (while others that he requested were rejected). And when the playoff competition intensified, he shrunk and eventually quit. That team had enough talent to earn them the best record in the NBA, but it didn't have enough fortitude to make a deep run. That's isn't the GM's fault. That blame needs to go to the best player. Why LeBrick doesn't take more heat for this and for quitting in the playoffs, is beyond me?
LMAO at people saying Lebron shrunk. Check the stats.
I'll take Ferry over that LAL GM. No limit for money.
Sign anyone who Prince James wants. Actually, PJ has no idea about what the NBA should be about. James has decided to set up so than he can win a championship. PERIOD. Suppose Bosh went to Cleveland or, NY or NJ? Everyone ain't raving as much.
IMO the 'CHOSEN ONE' has so little confidence in himself that he had to load the deck next year.
Give us Kobe and the Spurs would kick the heat all over the planet and twice on Sunday.
Kobe had to load the deck as well. His team is super stacked. He wanted to win and went on a whirl wind radio tour asking to be traded, throwing teammates under the bus just to put pressure on.
He made sure they loaded up because he could not cut it with just one other super star. He needed more.
Spoken like someone that hasn't checked the stats.Quote:
Originally Posted by DPG21920
Games 1-3 against Boston, Cavs outscored them 311-292 and Lebron scored 32.3 ppg on 54% shooting.
Games 4-6 against Boston, Cavs were outscored 311-260 and Lebron scored 21.3 ppg on 34% shooting.
Would Ferry then become the GM of the Toros?
So averaging 29 PTS, 9 REBS, 7.6 AST and having a PER of 33 in the playoffs is shrinking? He must be the best player ever. You sound like someone who has not checked the stats.Quote:
Originally Posted by Obstructed_View
Boston was by far the better team. Bron still averaged 27 PTS, 9.3 REBS, 7 AST, 2.2 STLS and over a block against the Celts. GTFO.
In game 6, he had 27 PTS, 19 F'ing REBS, 10 AST, 1 BLK & 3 STLS. Check your stats again. If that is Lebron quitting, then he is unquestionably the best player of all time.
my god dpg check the damn video !!! he's intentionally missing its freaking obvious. type "lebron quitting" and youll see plenty of strange looking shots, its not all in the stats im sure its pretty hard for him to miss a shot (inside that is) i mean i hate the kids attitude but man hes a freakQuote:
Originally Posted by DPG21920
Like I said, if you buy into Lebron quitting, against the same team that took one of the most stacked teams (LA) in a long time to game 7, and you see he is putting up triple doubles with blocks and steals thrown in then you are basically saying Lebron is the best player ever.
If someone can quit and still put up those numbers, that is absolutely insane. Especially against Boston.
i didnt believe it either until i watched the vid a few times tbh
Bring Danny back by all means...he is one of the good guys. :lobt2:
Tell me where my stats are wrong and I'll be happy to apologize. Until then, you're simply moving numbers around so they favor your argument.Quote:
Originally Posted by DPG21920
Since the incident happened in the middle of the series, and the accusations that he quit are just about the time his numbers went south, I'd challenge you to do the math, but it seems to be quite far beyond your capabilities. Therefore, again, I'll simply suggest that you look at the stats I posted and tell me where the error lies.
BTW, Boston was not "by far the better team". Cleveland won eleven more games in the regular season and was the number one seed in the entire league. The "Boston beat a team they were supposed to beat" argument is a truly lame one.
Actually he is unquestionably the best player at this moment in terms of putting up stats. i do not believe he totally quit on the team but he is displaying signs of disinterest. The intensity that he displayed while dismantling Detroit in 2007 Eastern Conference Finals was not there against Boston.Quote:
Originally Posted by DPG21920
Lets just put it this way. Did he quit ? No. Did he put his heart and soul into winning that game? From his behaviour on the court, no.
Anyway, back on topic, Danny Ferry will be a fine addition to the FO team. RC and Pop are running the show but they need people they trust too.
No.Quote:
Originally Posted by Obstructed_View
jesus, a discussion about Ferry's performance as GM over a span of 5 years turns into nitpicking about the performance of one player in 2 or 3 games.
just answer me one question: how can we make tons of excuses about what and why a GM did over 5 years and meanwhile claim that it all has been the fault of a player, because his performance dropped from extraterrestrial to just outstanding in some moments?
however, I didn't want to start any Ferry or Lebron bashing, I just described why I don't get excited if he comes back. and why I doubt he will help us.
(I would piss my pants if Presti comes back.)
final question: if you take Lebron away from any of the Cavs teams from 2005-2010, do you think any of those teams would have made at least the PO?
I claim that none would have. and a GM, who isn't able to build a PO team within a 5 years span, despite having huge money to spend, is mediocre at best, likely below average. and none will be able to name a single real good move from him. (a good move looks good on day one as well as 2 years later)
I mean the type of move that made us believe Pop and RC are top in their job. (and they also got their share of bad decisions)
point is, if greatness (and Lebron is great, no matter if you like him or not.) meets mediocrity, you usually don't get greatness (or rings) as a result. you get some good results at best. (like a good RS record). but you can't blame the great part to have failed. he has delivered whatever you can ask from a player.
so, do we now want the mediocre level, be it a player or a manager? if yes, ok, sign Ferry. if no, don't touch him. or give him a minor consultant role. (I doubt he will take a minor role, after being a GM for 5 years)
Shouldn't you also post his turnovers too? He avg 4.5 turnovers a game. 9 in the last game. Also shot 38% in the last game.Quote:
Originally Posted by DPG21920
You gotta post even the bad stats and imo, he did look like he quit during the game. I still think he's a beast NBA player.
Because when someone cites lack of championships as a reasons he's a suckass GM when he built teams that got to the finals once and posted the best record in the league twice, pointing out the nosedive of their best player who, in retrospect, quite clearly had one foot in south beach makes perfect sense. The simple fact is that Ferry did quite well with a Cavs team that couldn't attract top free agents because of the location and Lebron's lack of a long-term commitment.Quote:
Originally Posted by mountainballer