Printable View
question: since when does a company have to be a "US" company to grease the wheels of govt?Quote:
Originally Posted by CosmicCowboy
And what IS a US company? so many are fleening our country that i dont think that distinction applies anymore. so what if your headquarters is here? if all your operations are in southeast asia, who gives a fuck?
Not really....if the govt did the right thing and contracted the money supply when the economy was growing more than 3% we could avoid most hyper-inflation...Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus Bryant
...the plan is to monetize the debt anyway, long-term....eliminating the Federal Reserve just eliminates the middle man...
Right, the government is going to inflate $10+ trillion in debt into worthlessness with no problem and then stop on a dime and choke it off with no social upheaval.
im not coming up with this info...this came from a conservative member of the armed forces who has spent the last year in afghanistan. no shit. not pulling your leg here.Quote:
Originally Posted by CosmicCowboy
as for obama's popularity, i agree it is paramount on his list of concerns. but if you believe that obama is a front for a set of agendas going on in the background, agendas that would sacrifice obama to get 'er done, then you might start to see the possibilities.
the bush/obama front protects big $$$. that simple.
lol @ the belief that the repub/dem label still means anything in the whitehouse
...actually it only has to monetize the part of the debt that is foreign owned which is less that 3? 2? the rest is just wiped from the books since its just an accounting move now anyway...Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus Bryant
Pro-active war?Quote:
Originally Posted by Parker2112
Of course, it's all just numbers and bytes. All that accomplishes is going off the cliff faster and earlier.
I don't think we are going off the cliff at all..I'm just playing along...Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus Bryant
well, i guess it does mean that...Quote:
Originally Posted by Nbadan
We know.
What will be done? Not a damn thing.
Their stupid behavior is more in the news than other countries we support (which is apparently the whole world minus the "evil axis"). I thought it was a lot higher than $3B/year. Consider that plank taken out.Quote:
Originally Posted by CosmicCowboy
I won't deny any normal procedure that extends quality of life, but doctors and hospitals paying for their own fruitless medical procedures would be a strong incentive not to do them.Quote:
The question is where exactly do you draw the line? I agree some of the extreme life extending stuff (usually done because the family demands it) is obscene, but are you going to deny a diabetic dialysis because they can't be cured? The problem is, who is going to play god and decide?
stop giving other countries money
tell china to forgive the 894 billion dollars usa owes them
do not do more stimulas packages
gov has no money how can they give more money away
use a brain!
I see this posted by wing-nuts all the time....why should China forgive a trillion dollars in foreign debt but not Japan, or Great Britain or any other country that owns our debt? Can someone explain this?Quote:
tell china to forgive the 894 billion dollars usa owes them
Really, Dan?Quote:
Originally Posted by Nbadan
You seriously dont believe the US balance sheet is in ICU?
Brother, we're bankrupt, we/they just dont know it yet or just dont want to believe it.
If any other country in the world had a debt ratio similar to ours, theyd be bankrupt (see Greece, Spain).
1. Irrelevant.Quote:
Originally Posted by ducks
2. Never going to happen. Do you think the Chinese lent the money under the assumption it would actually be paid back? :lmao
3. "Stimulus", but yeah, agreed.
4. Government has nothing to do with the money supply. The Fed controls the money supply and theyre (to steal a phrase) about as "federal" as Federal Express.
Sweet, sweet irony.Quote:
use a brain!
The very bottom line for this country is unpalatable for a large portion of its citizens.
Cut spending of all colors (military and social programs) and raise taxes on everyone, especially the wealthy (<-- who control your country).
Raising taxes proportionally across the population will not get the country out from under its debt. Seeing as the tax rate would have to be raised significantly, for a middle class citizen (and lower), the incentive to work "under the table" outweighs the potential tax burden.
There is no easy answer. No magic bullets. If wealth in this country were spread more evenly across the socio-economic scale, getting out from under our national debt wouldnt be as much of a problem as it currently is. I'll let others argue as to the hows and whys of the reality, but to me, the bottom line is that the top 10% have nearly all the wealth and in order for the government to run a surplus, they have to tax their citizens more than they already are and significantly decrease expenditures.
You know, I started typing a lot more, but I have been owned way too many times in economic discussions. Since this is a fantasy land thread, unless the proposed debt reduction strategy was immediately followed by a mandatory Amendment to the US Constitution about future debt allowance and management at the local, state and federal level, our country will find itself in this position sometime in the near future anyway.
Social Security needs to be axed entirely. The foreign wars need to end, immediately. States need to take long hard looks at their welfare spending. The entire framework of federal funds allocation in Congress needs to be overhauled.
It comes right down to a fundamental shift in American politics and lifestyle that frankly, this country couldnt handle.
Stop SS payments while still collecting as a new tax? Unthinkable.
Welfare being reduced by over half and even then there is a time limit? Social unrest.
Stop the military engagements and overall war machine? A proliferation of arms and armor flooding the world market with American military technology. These HUGE businesses will not go out of business because America doesnt want to fund and buy their products.
Our entire trade relations with the world would have to change overnight at great cost to major corporations who are used to having their products made in sweat shops across the globe.
The cost of goods would intially skyrocket (except for maybe food, but idk). All textiles, all electronics, all cars, all office supplies, all everything that is ultimately nonessential (but is to a typical American) would be priced right out of the normal man's budget until someone or some company figured out how to make things "in house" at some believable cost.
That could take years, most likely decades. A fundamental shift in lifestyle for every American.
It is the only option left on the table, IMO, but this country couldnt handle it.
I suck at economics, Ive learned that in my time here, so I am sure this will get torn apart. So be it. Its just an internet forum and this doesnt make any fucking difference in the world as we know it. We're all just playing a game, ultimately.
synopsis of DR: America is fucked, and unfuckable.
More or less, yes. Agreed.Quote:
Originally Posted by boutons_deux
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkReign
Now that's the right attitude. Spoken like a true patriot. No sarcasm...I mean that.
that's just silly...you've fallen for the doom-and-gloom which is understandable because we are talking about big bucks here...in truth there are many countries with a greater or close to the gross debt to percentage of GDP ratio of the US...Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkReign
Gross debt as percentage of GDP
2007 2011 Forecast
Austria 62% 82%
France 70% 99%
Germany 65% 85%
Greece 104% 130%
Ireland 28% 93%
Italy 112% 130%
Japan 167% 204%
Netherlands 52% 82%
Portugal 71% 97%
Spain 42% 74%
United Kingdom 47% 71%
United States 62% 100%
Asia1 37% 41%
Central Europe2 23% 29%
Latin America3 41% 35%
Wiki
Does this include IOUs to the lockbox? I think that was the point of the original article.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nbadan
Wow! That makes me feel so much better. We aren't the most fucked up. We're not Number 1! We're not Number 1! We're not Number 1! We're not Number 1!Quote:
Originally Posted by Nbadan
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnakeBoy
Hell, were not even worse off than we were after WW2
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi..._President.jpg