Great news: Fed workers make twice their private counterparts

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Originally Posted by Nbadan

Who was the last President to leave office with not only a balanced budget, but a projected budget surplus on the books?

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Clinton. And Bush Sr was a good president too. But that was 10 years ago, and we're way more than 10x worse than back then.

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Originally Posted by Nbadan

..then why have wages remained stagnant while productivity was increasing at a record pace just a couple months back? What you mean is that the private sector is quick to protect its bottom line by cutting pay and benefits for its employees but isn't so quick to raise pay or offer more benefits when times are good...

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What he means is that the private sector has to deal in reality, a place where the concept of a "bottom line" actually exists. The federal government on the other hand exists in a fantasy world where there's no such thing as a bottom line. The federal government merely decides what they feel like paying themselves and if that means a bigger defecit, so what?

That's why your earlier point about private sector compensation "not keeping up" with government compensation is so incredibly stupid.

what's an example of a specific job where the federal worker makes twice his private counterpart?

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What he means is that the private sector has to deal in reality, a place where the concept of a "bottom line" actually exists. The federal government on the other hand exists in a fantasy world where there's no such thing as a bottom line. The federal government merely decides what they feel like paying themselves and if that means a bigger defecit, so what?

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Answer me this: Why does the US still have the best military in the world?

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Originally Posted by Nbadan

Answer me this: Why does the US still have the best military in the world?

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Because We The People are okay borrowing a shitload of money to have a badass one.

Now you answer me this: What does this have to do with the topic considering the numbers in question are for federal civilian employees.

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Originally Posted by coyotes_geek

Because We The People are okay borrowing a shitload of money to have a badass one.

Now you answer me this: What does this have to do with the topic considering the numbers in question are for federal civilian employees.

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We have the best military because we embargo our best technology.....we don't ship it off to china, Indonesia, or anywhere else like multinational corporations do...

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Originally Posted by coyotes_geek

Because We The People are okay borrowing a shitload of money to have a badass one.

Now you answer me this: What does this have to do with the topic considering the numbers in question are for federal civilian employees.

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No shit. Plus the difference between the military pay and civilian feds is staggering. A perfect example is Del Rio. A young basic enlistee in the Air Force at Laughlin AFB is probably making $18,000 a year. Same town, Border Patrol agents with the same basic education/skills are starting at $45,000 and easily knocking down $60,000-$70,000 with overtime. That's just salary and doesn't include pension.

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Originally Posted by Nbadan

We have the best military because we embargo our best technology.....we don't ship it off to china, Indonesia, or anywhere else like multinational corporations do...

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Thank you for this completely irrelevant piece of information.

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Originally Posted by ElNono

He also wants to cut the top tax rates. More of the same shit that got us here to begin with.

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I disagree.

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Originally Posted by coyotes_geek

Thank you for this completely irrelevant piece of information.

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....my point is that private business is short-sighted...it makes a decision to protect its bottom line by selling its trade secrets and then blames employees when other multinational corporations come out with products that are superior or less expensive...

....what if NASA or Homeland security took what the tech they have and sold it on the open market the way private businesses do?

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Originally Posted by Nbadan

....my point is that private business is short-sighted...it makes a decision to protect its bottom line by selling its trade secrets and then blames employees when other multinational corporations come out with products that are superior or less expensive...

....what if NASA or Homeland security took what the tech they have and sold it on the open market the way private businesses do?

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Sometimes I just read your posts and go ????????? WTF is he rambling about?

What business are actively selling their state of the art trade secrets?

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Originally Posted by Nbadan

....my point is that private business is short-sighted...it makes a decision to protect its bottom line by selling its trade secrets and then blames employees when other multinational corporations come out with products that are superior or less expensive...

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Your point means nothing because businesses have to worry about a bottom line and the federal government does not.

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....what if a tech employee for NASA or Homeland security took what they have learned and sold it on the open market the way private businesses do?

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What if the federal government had to worry about going out of business?

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Originally Posted by coyotes_geek

What if the federal government had to worry about going out of business?

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Or not being able to pay bills/meet payroll?

So, the government operates the way businesses should operate but can't because its lost its technological edge.....and getting back that edge would take a Manhattan project type investment in research and development...

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Originally Posted by CosmicCowboy

Or not being able to pay bills/meet payroll?

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Don't all federal offices operate on a yearly appropriated spending budget?

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Originally Posted by Blake

what's an example of a specific job where the federal worker makes twice his private counterpart?

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I can only speak to my specific field, but it my case it's not that the guy doing a similar job for the federal government is taking home twice what i am. It's that after 30 years he's still going to be getting a paycheck for life and I'm not. I'm not complaining, I chose to work where I am. I'm also not faulting him. It's a good deal for him. But as taxpayers we have to be concerned about what's a good deal for us and there's a limit to how much money we the taxpayers should be spending to pay former government employees to not work for us anymore.

...and doesn't my point have as much to do with how much federal employees make versus private sector counter-parts as your point about how federal employees can run their own deficits?

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Originally Posted by Nbadan

Don't all federal offices operate on a yearly appropriated spending budget?

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Apparently not. Ask Nancy Pelosi about that one.

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Originally Posted by coyotes_geek

I can only speak to my specific field, but it my case it's not that the guy doing a similar job for the federal government is taking home twice what i am. It's that after 30 years he's still going to be getting a paycheck for life and I'm not. I'm not complaining, I chose to work where I am. I'm also not faulting him. It's a good deal for him. But as taxpayers we have to be concerned about what's a good deal for us and there's a limit to how much money we the taxpayers should be spending to pay former government employees to not work for us anymore.

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You worked for 50 years and get no pension? Wow..

I am a fed worker and the reason there salaries are high is because when the economy was good they had to pay their workers to compete with the outside. as soon as the fed caught up the economy tanked and the salaries went down on the outside, but fed workers, by law, cannot take a pay cuts.

that is why I am a fed worker.

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Originally Posted by Blake

what's an example of a specific job where the federal worker makes twice his private counterpart?

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You act like it's make believe.

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Originally Posted by Nbadan

So, the government operates the way businesses should operate but can't because its lost its technological edge.....and getting back that edge would take a Manhattan project type investment in research and development...

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probably because private co.'s have to make a profit. Govt. jobs do the complete opposite.

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Originally Posted by spursncowboys

probably because private co.'s have to make a profit. Govt. jobs do the complete opposite.

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..but federal employees don't write their own budgets...and pay can and often is reduced by outsourcing to the private sector or eliminating positions..

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•Benefits. Federal workers received average benefits worth $41,791 in 2009. Most of this was the government's contribution to pensions. Employees contributed an additional $10,569.

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The Government isn't contributing to pensions at 4x the rate private companies are, in some cases the money goes to bail out pension when pension funds run short on projected payment money, as happens during slow to no growth periods thanks to greedy private industry fund managers putting money in risk investments....

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Originally Posted by Nbadan

..but federal employees don't write their own budgets...and pay can and often is reduced by outsourcing to the private sector or eliminating positions..

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govt employees do not have to entice you to take your business to them. They don't have to treat you as a consumer or customer because their office's success is not dictated on how well they performed their job duties.