Obama supports Mosque near ground zero...

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Originally Posted by CosmicCowboy

OK, GD, I get you now. Muslims good, Christians bad.

I respect your constitutional right to advocate that.

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I never said Christians were bad but way to resort to a strawman.

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Originally Posted by admiralsnackbar

Dumb fuck? :lol Eat a dick, tough guy -- I've been nothing but civil to you.

As for constitutionality... people are trying to impede the construction of mosque for what amount to aesthetic reasons. The land is paid for, the plans are in place, and yet some misguided douchebags are trying to intercede on what amount to aesthetic grounds. That isn't constitutionally sanctioned, now, is it? So this whole hoopla (besides being primarily political opera leading up to the mid-terms) is, ultimately hypocritical xenophobia from a country that is composed of aliens, and this hypocrisy -- while constitutionally protected in itself -- has, as it's end, an unconstitutional goal.

As for your assumption that I'm pinning this idiotic behavior on conservatives... it's just an assumption, genius.

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This is an emotional issue that is dividing EVERYONE from all parts of the political spectrum.

The fact that it is legal and constitutional does not automatically make it right. I could give you endless examples of things that are technically constitutional but in terribly bad taste. Building a monument commemorating the exploits of Adolph Hitler at the exit to the Holocaust Museum would be legal and constitutional but that doesn't make it right.

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Originally Posted by CosmicCowboy

This is an emotional issue that is dividing EVERYONE from all parts of the political spectrum.

The fact that it is legal and constitutional does not automatically make it right. I could give you endless examples of things that are technically constitutional but in terribly bad taste. Building a monument commemorating the exploits of Adolph Hitler at the exit to the Holocaust Museum would be legal and constitutional but that doesn't make it right.

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So we agree. Super.

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Originally Posted by CosmicCowboy

This is an emotional issue

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Exactly, it's an emotional issue that's making people forget about upholding first amendment rights. Civil rights were an emotional issue that had the same effect. That's why it's up to people like the president and supreme court justices to put emotion/what most Americans feel aside and interpret the constitution on their own.

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Originally Posted by Goran Dragic

I never said Christians were bad but way to resort to a strawman.

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while you posted that most muslims are peaceful, as if you surveyed all them and have 0% MOE. Oh that's right you saw it on the news.

Goran: have you read the koran?

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Originally Posted by admiralsnackbar

So we agree. Super.

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Which again brings up the quote from our President:

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But let me be clear: as a citizen, and as President, I believe that Muslims have the same right to practice their religion as anyone else in this country. That includes the right to build a place of worship and a community center on private property in lower Manhattan, in accordance with local laws and ordinances.

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Obama apparently doesn't agree with us. He had the pulpit at the Ishtar Dinner with what one would assume were leading Islamic thinkers/clerics in the US. It seemed like the perfect opportunity to express that it was perfectly legal and constitutional but also highly controversial and potentially divisive and question the wisdom of the decision to build it there.

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Originally Posted by spursncowboys

A large portion of the Christian religion in all it's denominations do not condone, or stay silent, genocide.

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Lots seem to condone "advanced interrogation" though...

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Originally Posted by Goran Dragic

White Supremacists consider themselves Christians.


And Muhammad did?

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are you saying he didn't or you don't know?

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And the Koran condones violence?

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Are you telling me it doesn't or do you not know?

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And I agree, but if it's a normal Muslim center, it won't incite violence. The people who blew up the trade centers weren't mainstream Muslims, they were Muslim extremists, just like Timothy McVeigh was a Christian extremist.

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Have you read the Imam's quotes? Some of them are pretty bad. Also he still doesn't explain where he will get 20 million plus to fund this. The finance is a basic thing that all buildings have to explain. Why do the muslim church not have to?

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:lmao my marxist professor? Is college the devil or something?

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No going to an accounting class and on day one the professor asks who voted for bush is perfectly acceptable. I don't mind the dialect and even the douch bag professors playing devil's advocate. I hate the kids who took what they said and lazily repeated it like it was fact.

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Originally Posted by spursncowboys

Goran: have you read the koran?

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Parts of it. Have you?

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Originally Posted by Goran Dragic

I guess by the logic of the idiot right wingers in this thread, Christians shouldn't be able to build a Church near the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City since Timothy McVeigh was a Christian.

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Why do libtards continue to spout this dumbass comparison?

McVeigh was anti-govt -- he was especially enraged by the Waco siege.

He was NOT motivated by some twisted form of Christianity.


Get it? Got it? Good.

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Originally Posted by Goran Dragic

Exactly, it's an emotional issue that's making people forget about upholding first amendment rights. Civil rights were an emotional issue that had the same effect. That's why it's up to people like the president and supreme court justices to put emotion/what most Americans feel aside and interpret the constitution on their own.

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It is still within my constitutional right to burn crosses and hang blacks in effigy but that doesn't make it right.

Any more analogies you want to throw out there to justify your righteous cause?

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Originally Posted by Goran Dragic

Exactly, it's an emotional issue that's making people forget about upholding first amendment rights. Civil rights were an emotional issue that had the same effect. That's why it's up to people like the president and supreme court justices to put emotion/what most Americans feel aside and interpret the constitution on their own.

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No one denies this is a moral argument. That's why something like 70% of people polled think it's WRONG to build the mosque there, but 70% think they have the RIGHT to build it there.

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Originally Posted by CosmicCowboy

Which again brings up the quote from our President:



Obama apparently doesn't agree with us. He had the pulpit at the Ishtar Dinner with what one would assume were leading Islamic thinkers/clerics in the US. It seemed like the perfect opportunity to express that it was perfectly legal and constitutional but also highly controversial and potentially divisive and question the wisdom of the decision to build it there.

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His job as a leader isn't to kowtow to peoples hypocrisies, but to appeal to our better angels, so to speak.

Too bad he doesn't stand up for other things that matter, but that's for other threads to discuss.

And just because I understand where the controversy may be coming from doesn't mean I agree with it.

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Originally Posted by Goran Dragic

Parts of it. Have you?

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No but parts of it as well.

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Originally Posted by spursncowboys

while you posted that most muslims are peaceful, as if you surveyed all them and have 0% MOE. Oh that's right you saw it on the news.

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Are you insinuating that most Muslims AREN'T peaceful?

So all the liberals are against eminent domain? Or that it is unconstitutional?

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Originally Posted by spursncowboys

No but parts of it as well.

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Have you read Matthew 10:34?

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Originally Posted by spursncowboys

are you saying he didn't or you don't know?

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It was a rhetorical question.

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Originally Posted by spursncowboys

Are you telling me it doesn't or do you not know?

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It was a rhetorical question.

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Originally Posted by spursncowboys

Have you read the Imam's quotes? Some of them are pretty bad. Also he still doesn't explain where he will get 20 million plus to fund this. The finance is a basic thing that all buildings have to explain. Why do the muslim church not have to?

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They have to get construction plans approved by the city, but assuming he's using a private contractor to build it, he doesn't have to show "where" he can get the financing. Most likely the contractor will want proof he's able to finance it, but he's under no obligation to account for where the financing comes from.

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Originally Posted by DarrinS

The man at the very end of the video eloquently expresses the mission statement of Park 51 community center (a.k.a. Cordoba House)

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Extreme fail, Darrin.

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Originally Posted by spursncowboys

So all the liberals are against eminent domain? Or that it is unconstitutional?

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What exactly would the domain be eminent for? Is the NY governor going to build a business spur into the financial district?

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Originally Posted by LnGrrrR

Are you insinuating that most Muslims AREN'T peaceful?

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No. Their culture, as you probably know, is so different than ours that to ask if they are peaceful to our standards probably doesn't work.

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Originally Posted by CosmicCowboy

It is still within my constitutional right to burn crosses and hang blacks

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Really? You have a constitutional right to hang black people?

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Originally Posted by spursncowboys

Have you read the Imam's quotes? Some of them are pretty bad.

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Which ones?

How bad?

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Also he still doesn't explain where he will get 20 million plus to fund this. The finance is a basic thing that all buildings have to explain. Why do the muslim church not have to?

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Show me the law where "all buildings have to explain" their financing, and the exception for Muslim "churches."

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Originally Posted by admiralsnackbar

Have you read Matthew 10:34?

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That has nothing to do with bringing violence on others. The two most important of the commandments were...