Rallies over mosque near ground zero get heated

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http://www.philly.com/philly/wires/a...getheated.html


Rallies over mosque near ground zero get heated




Rallies over mosque near ground zero get heated
VERENA DOBNIK

The Associated Press

NEW YORK - The proposed mosque near ground zero drew hundreds of fever-pitch demonstrators Sunday, with opponents carrying signs associating Islam with blood, supporters shouting, "Say no to racist fear!" and American flags waving on both sides.

Police separated the two groups but there were some nose-to-nose confrontations, including a man and a woman screaming at each other across a barricade under a steady rain.

Opponents of the plan to build a $100 million, 13-story Islamic center and mosque two blocks from the World Trade Center site appeared to outnumber supporters. Bruce Springsteen's "Born in the USA" blared over loudspeakers as mosque opponents chanted, "No mosque, no way!"

Signs hoisted by hundreds of protesters standing behind police barricades read "SHARIA" , using dripping, blood-red letters to describe Islam's Shariah law. Around the corner, NYPD officers guarded a cordoned-off stretch of Park Place occupied by the old building that is to become the Islamic center.

Steve Ayling, a 40-year-old Brooklyn plumber who took his "SHARIA" sign to a dry spot by an office building, said the people behind the mosque project are "the same people who took down the twin towers."

Opponents demand that the mosque be moved farther from the site where nearly 3,000 people were killed on Sept. 11, 2001. Ayling said, "They should put it in the Middle East," and added that he still vividly remembers watching television on 9/11 "and seeing people jumping from the towers, and ashes falling on my house."

On a nearby sidewalk, police chased away a group that unfurled a banner with images of beating, stoning and other torture they said was committed by those who followed Islamic law.

The mosque project is being led by Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf and his wife, Daisy Khan, who insist the center will promote moderate Islam. The dispute has sparked a national debate on religious freedom and American values and is becoming an issue on the campaign trail ahead of the midterm elections. Republicans have been critical of President Barack Obama's stance: He has said the Muslims have the right to build the center at the site but has not commented on whether he thinks they should.

At a pro-mosque rally staged a block away from opponents' demonstration, several hundred people chanted, "Muslims are welcome here! We say no to racist fear!"

Dr. Ali Akram, a Brooklyn physician, came with his three sons and an 11-year-old nephew waving an American flag in his hand. He noted that scores of Muslims were among those who died in the towers, and he called those who oppose the mosque "un-American."

"They teach their children about the freedom of religion in America , but they don't practice what they preach," Akram said.

Gila Barzvi, whose son, Guy Barzvi, was killed in the towers, stood with mosque opponents, clutching a large photo of her son with both hands.

"This is sacred ground and it's where my son was buried," the native Israeli from Queens said. She said the mosque would be "like a knife in our hearts."

She was joined by a close friend, Kobi Mor, who flew from San Francisco to participate in the rally.

If the mosque gets built, "we will bombard it," Mor said. He would not elaborate but added that he believes the project "will never happen."

The Sunday rallies coincided with an annual motorcycle ride by a group that raises money for Sept. 11 first responders.

Bikers rolled in from the two other Sept. 11 attack sites, Washington and Shanksville, Pa.

The imam behind the project is in the middle of a Mideast trip funded by the U.S. State Department that is intended to promote religious tolerance. He has discussed efforts to combat extremism, but has avoided any comments on the rancor over the planned Islamic center.

Rauf told the Al Wasat newspaper in Bahrain that the freedoms enshrined by the U.S. Constitution also reflect true Muslim values. A portion of the interview , to be published Monday , was seen Sunday by The Associated Press.

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Sharia!

Ever wonder why Fox Repugnant Network hasn't fomented similar demonstrations and hate-mongering about Wall St?

It's obvious these people are well informed on the issue.

this is nothing compared to the violence from the pro-illegal immigration guys in Cali.

"For years, the American Right and neocons have been quick to accuse critics of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars of endangering American troops – by causing disunity, exposing counter-terror techniques, etc. – but these war enthusiasts are now the ones putting the lives of U.S. soldiers in jeopardy."


"The United States would have stood up before the world as a confident nation that lives – not just talks – its principles. The American welcoming of a mosque near the 9/11 site could have represented a propaganda blow to al-Qaeda and other extremists.

Instead, the opposite has occurred. The world has seen the United States appearing as a weak, prejudiced and vengeful nation, blaming an entire religion for the actions of a few adherents."

http://consortiumnews.com/Print/2010/081810.html

iow, OBL wins again, exposes America as petty, bigoted, xenophobic, retrograde, close-minded.

Terrorists beat America's huge, flabby ass again, and again, and again.

=========

A take that Fox hate-mongering does betrayus Petraeus:

"prime movers in the campaign against the “ground zero mosque” just happen to be among the last cheerleaders for America’s nine-year war in Afghanistan. The wrecking ball they’re wielding is not merely pounding Park51, as the project is known, but is demolishing America’s already frail support for that war, which is dedicated to nation-building in a nation whose most conspicuous asset besides opium is actual mosques. "

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/22/op...gewanted=print

...

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Originally Posted by boutons_deux

instead, the opposite has occurred. The world has seen the united states appearing as a weak, prejudiced and vengeful nation, blaming an entire religion for the actions of a few adherents."

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lmao.

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Originally Posted by spursncowboys

this is nothing compared to the violence from the pro-illegal immigration guys in Cali.

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Or Code Pink, NAMBLA, PETA, or just about any other leftist group. Conservative protests are so mild compared to liberal protests.

Little to no uproar when the story first broke in Dec:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/09/ny.../09mosque.html

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Originally Posted by George Gervin's Afro

Sharia!

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http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38799106...deastn_africa/

Saudi judge considers punishment by paralysis

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CAIRO — Amnesty International has spoken out against a Saudi judge who, earlier this week, asked hospitals in the country whether they cut the spinal cord of a man who was convicted of paralyzing another man in a fight.

"We urge the Saudi Arabian authorities not to carry out such a punishment, which amounts to nothing less than torture," Hassiba Hadj Sahraoui, director of Amnesty's Middle East and North Africa Program, said in a statement. "While those guilty of a crime should be held accountable, intentionally paralysing a man in this way would constitute torture, and be a breach of its international human rights obligations."

Earlier this week, the brother of the victim — Abdul-Aziz al-Mutairi, 22 — told the media that the judge in the case was making inquiries about the deliberate paralysis.

The convicted man in the case allegedly attacked al-Mutairi with a cleaver two years ago, leaving al-Mutairi paralyzed. Al-Mutairi subsequently lost one of his feet.

Al-Mutairi asked a judge in northwestern Tabuk province to impose an equivalent punishment on his attacker under Islamic law, his brother Khaled al-Mutairi told The Associated Press by telephone from there.

He said one of the hospitals, located in Tabuk, responded that it is possible to damage the spinal cord, but it added that the operation would have to be done at another more specialized facility. Saudi newspapers reported that a second hospital in the capital Riyadh declined, saying it could not inflict such harm.

Administrative offices of two of the hospitals and the court in Tabuk were closed for the Saudi weekend beginning Thursday and could not be reached for comment.

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Originally Posted by boutons_deux

Ever wonder why Fox Repugnant Network hasn't fomented similar demonstrations and hate-mongering about Wall St?

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Quite possibly the dumbest post in ST political forum history.

But Saudis have "our" oil so US loses its humanity.

Saddam govt bad (US didn't have it Saddam's oil),
Saudi govt good (US addicted to Saudi oil).

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Originally Posted by boutons_deux

But Saudis have "our" oil so US loses its humanity.

Saddam govt bad (US didn't have it Saddam's oil),
Saudi govt good (US addicted to Saudi oil).

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Another post. Another fail.

Darrin, why you hate all Muslims?

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Originally Posted by DarrinS

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38799106...deastn_africa/

Saudi judge considers punishment by paralysis

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Sharia has nothing to do with Mosque!

Sharia!

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Originally Posted by George Gervin's Afro

Sharia has nothing to do with Mosque!

Sharia!

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America is a Sharia-compliant state.

Nervous laughter at end of video.

Ground Zero Mosque’s Hidden Websites: Follow the Shariah

http://bigpeace.com/cbrim/2010/08/17...w-the-shariah/

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Originally Posted by George Gervin's Afro

Sharia has nothing to do with Mosque!

Sharia!

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born in the USA is probably the most misunderstood rock anthem of all time.

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Originally Posted by rjv

born in the USA is probably the most misunderstood rock anthem of all time.

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LOL, I thought this earlier when I read this, I even said out loud "why do people keep using Born in the USA as some kind of uber-patriot song?" Unfortunately, the only people around me were too young to even know that song.

I think Frank Rich has nailed the hypocrisy on this one.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/22/opinion/22rich.html

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Op-Ed Columnist
How Fox Betrayed Petraeus
By FRANK RICH
Published: August 21, 2010

THE "ground zero mosque," as you may well know by now, is not at ground zero. It’s not a mosque but an Islamic cultural center containing a prayer room. It's not going to determine President Obama's political future or the elections of 2010 or 2012. Still, the battle that has broken out over this project in Lower Manhattan — on the "hallowed ground" of a shuttered Burlington Coat Factory store one block from the New York Dolls Gentlemen’s Club - will prove eventful all the same. And the consequences will be far more profound than any midterm election results or any of the grand debates now raging 24/7 over the parameters of tolerance, religious freedom, and the real estate gospel of location, location, location.

Here's what's been lost in all the screaming. The prime movers in the campaign against the "ground zero mosque" just happen to be among the last cheerleaders for America’s nine-year war in Afghanistan. The wrecking ball they're wielding is not merely pounding Park51, as the project is known, but is demolishing America's already frail support for that war, which is dedicated to nation-building in a nation whose most conspicuous asset besides opium is actual mosques.

So virulent is the Islamophobic hysteria of the neocon and Fox News right - abetted by the useful idiocy of the Anti-Defamation League, Harry Reid and other cowed Democrats - that it has also rendered Gen. David Petraeus's last-ditch counterinsurgency strategy for fighting the war inoperative. How do you win Muslim hearts and minds in Kandahar when you are calling Muslims every filthy name in the book in New York?

...

We owe thanks to Justin Elliott of Salon for the single most revealing account of this controversy's evolution. He reports that there was zero reaction to the "ground zero mosque" from the front-line right or anyone else except marginal bloggers when The Times first reported on the Park51 plans in a lengthy front-page article on Dec. 9, 2009. The sole exception came some two weeks later at Fox News, where Laura Ingraham, filling in on "The O'Reilly Factor," interviewed Daisy Khan, the wife of the project's organizer, Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf. Ingraham gave the plans her blessing. "I can't find many people who really have a problem with it," she said. "I like what you're trying to do."

...

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How can you not love this guy?

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Originally Posted by DarrinS

How can you not love this guy?

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The US has always been perfect and any acknowledgment to anything different will cause you to be crucified by Fox News..:toast

hey darrins what does this have to do with the Mosque?

Sharia!

OBL himself said his objective for attacking US was because the occupation of Saudi/Muslim "sacred ground" by US boots.

So, yes, US's occupation of SA to secure US's oil addiction was responsible for the WTC attack.

Substance abusers, like oil druggies, almost never admit they have a problem.

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Originally Posted by boutons_deux

OBL himself said his objective for attacking US was because the occupation of Saudi/Muslim "sacred ground" by US boots.

So, yes, US's occupation of SA to seucre US's oil addiction was responsible for the WTC attack.

Substance abusers, like oil druggies, almost never admit they have a problem.

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You fail

Darrin, you're right, I am fully refudiated.

Blind squirrel finds a nut and agreement from The Great Boutons:

Ron Paul breaks with GOP on New York mosque: The opposition ‘is all about hate and Islamaphobia.’

http://thinkprogress.org/2010/08/23/ron-paul-ny-mosque/

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Originally Posted by DarrinS

How can you not love this guy?

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Glenn Beck said exactly the same thing Rauf did about US foreign policy.

Both were correct.

You guys let WC say NAMBLA was a leftist group?

:lol

Yeah, that was funny.

Someone whose posts he can see should ask him to explain that one.

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Originally Posted by chumpdumper

yeah, that was funny.

Someone whose posts he can see should ask him to explain that one.

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rofl.

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Originally Posted by DarrinS

How can you not love this guy?

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OMG that's practically a terrorist manifesto!!

If you're a fucking moron.




(You're a fucking moron.)

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Originally Posted by boutons_deux

Blind squirrel finds a nut and agreement from The Great Boutons:

Ron Paul breaks with GOP on New York mosque: The opposition ‘is all about hate and Islamaphobia.’

http://thinkprogress.org/2010/08/23/ron-paul-ny-mosque/

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Shouldn't that be: Blind squirrel finds a nut and agreement from The Great Ron Paul? :lol :lol

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com...d-up/?src=tptw

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Originally Posted by TeyshaBlue

Shouldn't that be: Blind squirrel finds a nut and agreement from The Great Ron Paul? :lol :lol

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Or maybe, Nut finds a squirrel (Ron Paul) that agrees with him?

I really, really didn't want to bump this thread, but this music video has to be seen.

Cordoba, yeah, Muslims tried to live peacefully with their neighbors.

Except that the Muslims were in control in Cordoba and killed many people. They allowed some people to practice a different religion, but they weren't tolerant. You'd be killed if you did something that was entirely offensive to them, and we know how easily offended they are.

Guess what Muslims believe? That Cordoba, and all of Spain, is rightfully Muslim land. Because, you know, they conquered it once, so it rightfully belongs to them, and they have vowed to retake it.

Guess what they did to the Christian Churches in Cordoba? They rebuilt Mosques over them.


Fuck that. I can't believe more people don't talk about the truth behind the meaning behind Cordoba Spain.

This mosque thing should be stopped.

also, building it right next to the WTC is a symbol of victory.

it will be a shining beacon in the ideological war....

fucking slimy politicians allowing this shit because of all these wealthy arabs

Nice trolling MH :tu

show me where i am wrong then

you realize the Quran says that every muslim is commanded to strive for peace, and to have peace, muslims must impose Shari'a Law in every corner of the earth

that is what "peace" looks like to muslims.

there is no such thing as a moderate or peaceful muslim. they are just the ones who are not following their holy text CORRECTLY. the osama bin laden's of the world are the actual loyal followers of the quran.

MH hasn't been here long, but already I'm very impressed. An excellent representative of the right wing. :lol

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Originally Posted by boutons_deux

MH hasn't been here long, but already I'm very impressed. An excellent representative of the right wing. :lol

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have you ever stopped to actually learn about muslims?

seriously, i want to know

a lot of westerners believe that the Quran is like any other religious text, and that muslims practice a religion like any other religion...

it's completely wrong.

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Originally Posted by MiamiHeat

Guess what they did to the Christian Churches in Cordoba? They rebuilt Mosques over them.

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What did the Christians do to the mosques once they retook Spain?

Pretty sure that the Bible tells Christians to follow God's word above all, as well. Of course, many Christians will tell you that they don't support stoning children, but they're just not following the Bible correctly.

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Originally Posted by LnGrrrR

Pretty sure that the Bible tells Christians to follow God's word above all, as well. Of course, many Christians will tell you that they don't support stoning children, but they're just not following the Bible correctly.

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The New Covenant replaced the Old Covenant. Jesus' teachings overruled the old teachings.

Any worthwhile Christian knows this.

The same thing with the Quran.

Naskh states that any contradictions in the Quran must be handled in the following way : The older/earlier verses/teachings are replaced by the chronologically successive later verses.

When reading the quran this way, the quran FLAT OUT SAYS

it is the duty of every muslim to bring peace to the world by imposing Shari'a Law everywhere on earth.

among many other things.

any "peaceful" muslims you know are the product of human beings wanting to live peaceful lives. they are NOT faithful muslims to their holy text.

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Originally Posted by LnGrrrR

Pretty sure that the Bible tells Christians to follow God's word above all, as well. Of course, many Christians will tell you that they don't support stoning children, but they're just not following the Bible correctly.

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Christians will also tell you that Christ made the old laws unnecessary. then most of the old laws were for the time and place. Not today.

Know any Christians or Jews that dig a hole to relieve themselves when we now have indoor plumbing?

The time/place standard is easily understood.

Seriously you all should check out the music video.

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Originally Posted by Wild Cobra

Christians will also tell you that Christ made the old laws unnecessary. then most of the old laws were for the time and place. Not today.

Know any Christians or Jews that dig a hole to relieve themselves when we now have indoor plumbing?

The time/place standard is easily understood.

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So the Ten Commandments no longer apply.

Neat.

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

So the Ten Commandments no longer apply.

Neat.

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No, they still apply because it was included in the New Covenant.


Romans 13

8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

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Originally Posted by MiamiHeat

The New Covenant replaced the Old Covenant. Jesus' teachings overruled the old teachings.

Any worthwhile Christian knows this.

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That's hilarious, because the first thing a 'Christian' will always do is quote the Old Testament when it comes to justifying slavery, homophobia, anti-abortion, etc.

So why is the Old Testament even in the Bible?

Please explain.

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Originally Posted by resistanze

That's hilarious, because the first thing a 'Christian' will always do is quote the Old Testament when it comes to justifying slavery, homophobia, anti-abortion, etc.

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Educate yourself before trying to sound like you know what you are talking about. That touch of "superior arrogance" you displayed is what is hilarious.

Homosexuality is denounced in the New Testament too.

Romans 1

25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

So why is the Old Testament even in the Bible?

Please explain.

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Because humans kept it.

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Originally Posted by MiamiHeat

Because humans kept it.

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So where is the superseding clause in the New Testament?

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

So where is the superseding clause in the New Testament?

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I don't understand your question

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Originally Posted by Spurminator

Seriously you all should check out the music video.

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Sorry, I'm watching the "Rat Patrol" right now.

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Originally Posted by MiamiHeat

I don't understand your question

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Is there some passage in the NT saying the OT is to now be ignored unless parts are repeated in the NT?

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

Is there some passage in the NT saying the OT is to now be ignored unless parts are repeated in the NT?

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The passage you refer to is in the OT

Jeremiah 31

31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.


So Jesus being the son of god that fulfilled the prophecy of the messiah, who came to do god's work, taught the new covenant of forgiveness

hey, I'm an atheist and I still remember this stuff.

But why would anyone believe that? It's in the Old Testament.

And if God is perfect, why did he need a mulligan on that first covenant?

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

But why would anyone believe that? It's in the Old Testament.

And if God is perfect, why did he need a mulligan on that first covenant?

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Now you're getting completely off-topic.... with an atheist

You do realize I'm not a Christian right?

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Originally Posted by MiamiHeat

Now you're getting completely off-topic.... with an atheist

You do realize I'm not a Christian right?

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Don't really care. You're answering questions.

Also

Mulsims are told, BY THE QURAN, to LIE and MANIPULATE people in order to protect their beliefs or themselves.

this is known as taqiya. in fact, the Quran even tells muslims that it is ok to manipulate an infidel and make him believe you are on his side if it will get you an advantage. to protect himself or even to use it in the spread of islam.

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Originally Posted by MiamiHeat

Also

Mulsims are told, BY THE QURAN, to LIE and MANIPULATE people in order to protect their beliefs or themselves.

this is known as taqiya. in fact, the Quran even tells muslims that it is ok to manipulate an infidel and make him believe you are on his side if it will get you an advantage. to protect himself or even to use it in the spread of islam.

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That's why someone needs to build that gay bar right next door to them to see if they really are tolerant.

or how about that ALL form of man made governments and free speech is a SIN and must be abolished?

it is a DUTY OF EVERY MUSLIM to do these things.


this is why Osama Bin Laden is a more faithful religious servant to Islam than a "peaceful" muslim is

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Originally Posted by Wild Cobra

That's why someone needs to build that gay bar right next door to them to see if they really are tolerant.

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these obama apologists are so fucking stuck on their childish ideas of "WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO DO WHATEVER WE WANT!" attitude. it spreads from homosexuality to this to anything else.

they have no fucking clue what islam is really about.

So you think every Muslim holds all of these beliefs?

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

So you think every Muslim holds all of these beliefs?

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nope, there are good people who happen to be muslim and do not follow the quran

but the FACTS are FACTS AND CANNOT BE CHANGED

The Quran teaches and COMMANDS these things to every muslim.

if some peaceful, good hearted muslims choose to ignore it, that doesn't change what Islam is really about.


plus, I just told you about TAQIYA. Any muslim is told by the Quran that they can LIE TO YOU AND MANIPULATE ANY INFIDEL if it helps them or Islam. So maybe some of these people who say they do not believe these things, maybe some of them are LIARS

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Originally Posted by MiamiHeat

nope, there are good people who happen to be muslim and do not follow the quran

but the FACTS are FACTS AND CANNOT BE CHANGED

The Quran teaches and COMMANDS these things to every muslim.

if some peaceful, good hearted muslims choose to ignore it, that doesn't change what Islam is really about.


plus, I just told you about TAQIYA. Any muslim is told by the Quran that they can LIE TO YOU AND MANIPULATE ANY INFIDEL if it helps them or Islam. So maybe some of these people who say they do not believe these things, maybe some of them are LIARS

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So how do you tell the peaceful, goodhearted ones from the liars?

On 19 November 2003, in the United States District Court Eastern District of Michigan Southern Division, Judge Steven Whalen concluded a four-page indictment against Mahmoud Youseff Kourani.

The indictment described Kourani as a dedicated member of Hezbollah who had received specialised training in radical Shiite fundamentalism, weaponry, spy craft and counter-intelligence in Lebanon and Iran and a dedicated member/fighter/recruiter and fundraiser for Hezbollah: (1)


"While in the United States,
Kourani employed 'taqiyya': a Shia
Muslim doctrine of concealment,
pretense and fraud. This meant
amongst other things that Kourani
would, when he thought it necessary,
avoid going to mosques, not
attend Shiite religious rituals, shave
his beard, and otherwise keep his
true beliefs secret while inside what
he considered to be hostile territory
--the United States of America."


This Cordoba House garbage by Imam whatever his name is .... this is just another fucking deception.

The goal of spreading more Mosques is to convert more people,

and by doing it THIS CLOSE TO GROUND ZERO, it is so fucking obvious what they are doing.

it must be stopped.

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Originally Posted by MiamiHeat

This Cordoba House garbage by Imam whatever his name is .... this is just another fucking deception.

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How do you know this?

You just said Muslims can be goodhearted and peaceful.

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

How do you know this?

You just said Muslims can be goodhearted and peaceful.

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Good hearted peaceful people do NOT step on the sensitivity of others.

70% of americans oppose the Mosque at Ground Zero.

There are weekly demonstrations there, but he doesn't give a fuck. He is pushing through.


This signals to me that the location is very, very important to him. Why would it HAVE to be built there? If he was a good hearted, peaceful man, he would relocate, no big deal.

Nope. he wants to BUILD THERE. Fuck the demonstrators and sensitivities of 9/11.

then he names it the Cordoba House. Lawl.

Pretty clear what his objective is.

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Originally Posted by MiamiHeat

Good hearted peaceful people do NOT step on the sensitivity of others.

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That's your evidence?

Goodhearted people do that all the time.

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70% of americans oppose the Mosque at Ground Zero.

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Good for them.

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There are weekly demonstrations there, but he doesn't give a fuck. He is pushing through.

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Good for him.

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This signals to me that the location is very, very important to him. Why would it HAVE to be built there? If he was a good hearted, peaceful man, he would relocate, no big deal.

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Perhaps he wants to build it there to actually prove it is no big deal.

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Nope. he wants to BUILD THERE. Fuck the demonstrators and sensitivities of 9/11.

then he names it the Cordoba House. Lawl.

Pretty clear what his objective is.

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Yes, he is so obviously trying to deceive you that he intentionally picked a location and a name that would piss you off.

Diabolical.

It's nice to know that atheists can discriminate on the basis of religion.

none of your replies were a sufficient rebuttal to my statements

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Originally Posted by MiamiHeat

none of your replies were a sufficient rebuttal to my statements

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Your statements are self-rebutting.

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

Your statements are self-rebutting.

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lol no u

Here's your rebuttal:

You have no proof.

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Originally Posted by MiamiHeat

Educate yourself before trying to sound like you know what you are talking about. That touch of "superior arrogance" you displayed is what is hilarious.

Homosexuality is denounced in the New Testament too.

Romans 1

25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

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Doesn't change the fact that people look to the OT when passing judgment on others. You'll never see some one quote Jesus and the Gospels when they're ready to judge. I should've added that they'll usually skip right over to Paul (like you), where the vengeful, murderous God of the OT suddenly reappears after being completely absent during the life of Jesus.

You'd think creating a new religion separate from Judaism named after Jesus Christ would make the Gospels more important.

And please, I'm was born and raised a Roman Catholic. I don't need your closet Muslim ass teaching me Christian Scripture.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MiamiHeat

Good hearted peaceful people do NOT step on the sensitivity of others.

70% of americans oppose the Mosque at Ground Zero.

There are weekly demonstrations there, but he doesn't give a fuck. He is pushing through.


This signals to me that the location is very, very important to him. Why would it HAVE to be built there? If he was a good hearted, peaceful man, he would relocate, no big deal.

Nope. he wants to BUILD THERE. Fuck the demonstrators and sensitivities of 9/11.

then he names it the Cordoba House. Lawl.

Pretty clear what his objective is.

---

So it's okay to bully the "mosque" owners into moving somewhere else? How about you bully the owner of the WTC over the fact that it's still a giant wound in the community after all these years? Those muslims bought the land fair and square, let them build whatever they want. This issue is just a distraction, c'mon yo.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stringer_Bell

So it's okay to bully the "mosque" owners into moving somewhere else? How about you bully the owner of the WTC over the fact that it's still a giant wound in the community after all these years? Those muslims bought the land fair and square, let them build whatever they want. This issue is just a distraction, c'mon yo.

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It is a powerful ideological tool to recruit more terrorists and converts.

To build a mosque over your conquered enemy. Just like in Cordoba, Spain. Funny how he wants to name it that.

The symbolism is worth much more than whatever he has to pay for the building.

He can pretty much move anywhere else in the country. But he chose to build on on that one spot. Funny.

All of this support of this "imam" is sad. Go learn about Taqiya, go learn about who this man really is, watch his interviews from the past 10 years, read his transcripts.
For all the lip service he does, he has never come out to denounce Hezbollah or other terrorist organizations. It's all Islamic fraud to deceive the West.

lol @ someone calling me a closet muslim now

would like to know how anyone could come up with something like that from this thread

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MiamiHeat

It is a powerful ideological tool to recruit more terrorists and converts.

To build a mosque over your conquered enemy. Just like in Cordoba, Spain. Funny how he wants to name it that...He can pretty much move anywhere else in the country. But he chose to build on on that one spot. Funny.

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If anything helps recruit terrorists, it's when they tell the young people, "SEE! You can't peacefully exist in the West. They will bitch and moan about "emotional wounds" while your cities have been blown to pieces and you've lived in occupation. They do not honor they're own laws, they are not the shining examples they pretend to be about - but we can make them examples." That's the kind of shit they are telling the kids, and even if they recruit 1 over AMERICA being butthurt about a community center with a prayer room...that's one too many and we should be ashamed for giving them the recruiting tools. The government knows this Imam, and you best believe they will watch that place like a hawk...not only for concerns about attracting fanatics, but also to protect them from the fanatics that believe they are cooperating with the evil West.

And yes, he can move the property anywhere in the country and name it Cordoba...it would still signal that the terrorists still pwned us and it would be their flag and much harder to cooperate with. Fuck the politics, gotta get real.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MiamiHeat

lol @ someone calling me a closet muslim now

would like to know how anyone could come up with something like that from this thread

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It's clear you are practicing Taqiya.

It's plain as day.

You're a terrorist who is fomenting discord between the West and Islam..

I wonder if New York will turn into London. Muslims in the UK want Sharia over there..of course it is a select few I believe.

The thought police are still out in full force today.. he thinks this, he said that,..blah,blah,blah..this is America where you can have your own views...

no one has answered the question,

what is insensitive about the mosque being built there? Specifically...

You know, its becoming quite clear that people like MiamiHeat, WC and all these dumb asses that are protesting the mosque are quite a bit more dangerous to what America stands for than any terrorist will ever be. Perhaps the CIA should invest some time into finding ways to fight idiocy. It'll certainly be cheaper than hunting terrorists and likely to save more lives in the long run.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MaNuMaNiAc

Perhaps the CIA should invest some time into finding ways to fight idiocy. It'll certainly be cheaper than hunting terrorists and likely to save more lives in the long run.

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It would have been tough for the CIA to pick a fight against Dubya.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stringer_Bell

If anything helps recruit terrorists, it's when they tell the young people, "SEE! You can't peacefully exist in the West. They will bitch and moan about "emotional wounds" while your cities have been blown to pieces and you've lived in occupation. They do not honor they're own laws, they are not the shining examples they pretend to be about - but we can make them examples." That's the kind of shit they are telling the kids, and even if they recruit 1 over AMERICA being butthurt about a community center with a prayer room...that's one too many and we should be ashamed for giving them the recruiting tools. The government knows this Imam, and you best believe they will watch that place like a hawk...not only for concerns about attracting fanatics, but also to protect them from the fanatics that believe they are cooperating with the evil West.

And yes, he can move the property anywhere in the country and name it Cordoba...it would still signal that the terrorists still pwned us and it would be their flag and much harder to cooperate with. Fuck the politics, gotta get real.

---

^^^^^^This^^^^^^^^^:toast

CBS Poll

Libs continue to be out of touch with most Americans.

http://i.i.com.com/cnwk.1d/i/tim//20...e6805662_1.gif

Quote:

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A majority of Americans don't think it is appropriate to build a mosque and Islamic cultural center two blocks from the site of the 9/11 terrorist attacks on the World Trade Center, according to a new CBS News poll.


Nearly three of four Americans -- 71 percent -- say building a mosque so close to the site is not appropriate while just 22 percent say it is appropriate.


How one views Islam informs how they feel about the proposed construction of the mosque near Ground Zero. Those who have a favorable opinion of Islam are more inclined to think the mosque is appropriate with 50 percent calling it appropriate and 42 percent saying it isn't. Those who view Islam unfavorably decidedly think it's inappropriate 88 percent going against it to 9 percent.


Nevertheless, most Americans also agree that the developers do have a right to build a mosque there. Sixty-seven percent say they do while 29 percent say they do not.


Overall, 24 percent of Americans have a favorable impression of Islam while far more -- 39 percent -- have an unfavorable opinion of the religion. Nearly as many-- 37 percent -- don't have an opinion.

---

Why does this community center threaten you, Darrin?

I'm glad I'm out of touch with stupidity.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DarrinS

CBS Poll

Libs continue to be out of touch with most Americans.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by DarrinS

Nevertheless, most Americans also agree that the developers do have a right to build a mosque there.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Spurminator

I'm glad I'm out of touch with stupidity.

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Americans like DarrinS have the right to be stupid and prejudiced.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

Americans like DarrinS have the right to be stupid and prejudiced.

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In other news, liberal film student, Michael Enright, stabbed a Muslim cab driver in the throat, face, and arm.


http://www.salon.com/news/politics/w...ght_hate_diary


http://www.salon.com/news/politics/w...y/md_horiz.jpg


I know you guys were hoping for one of those racist, Tea Baggers. Oh well.

Quote:

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Michael Enright, the raging drunk who nearly killed a Muslim cab-driver in Manhattan this week, is being held without bail following his arraignment on hate crime charges. Enright a film student, is finishing a documentary about marines serving in Afghanistan, where he was embedded earlier this year for 35 days.

Enright stabbed the man after an apparently civil conversation about the driver's Muslim faith. Then Enright allegedly yelled "this is the checkpoint," and slashed the drivers throat and arm.

According to friends, Enright was usually kind and mild-mannered. He volunteered with Intersections International, a liberal organization dedicated to religious tolerance and peace.

"The person who volunteered for us is a really good guy," Intersections International executive director Rev. Robert Chase told the media. "He's responsible, he's been generous, he's concerned about the issues in the world."

"He's a really nice guy to be around," a college friend told the New York Post. ""He's a great kid," a neighbor said.

But: Enright was arrested twice last year, for disorderly conduct and underage drinking. According to the Post: "College friends said Enright had been sober for the last year."

And a friend tells the Daily News that Enright had seemed troubled and angry since his return from Afghanistan.

The Daily News also reports that cops found a diary on Enright that was filled with anti-Muslim rantings:


When he was arrested Tuesday in midtown, Enright had a personal diary filled with pages of "pretty strong anti-Muslim comments," a police source said.

The source said Enright's journal equated Muslims with "killers, ungrateful for the help they were being offered, filthy murderers without a conscience."


So. He's a complicated character. Possible alcoholism, possible PTSD.

Ahmed Sharif, the driver, described the terrifying attack to the local media. He'll go to city hall to meet Mayor Bloomberg later today.

---

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Blake

I don't understand the difference between moral and legal arguments.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by George Gervin's Afro

no one has answered the question,

what is insensitive about the mosque being built there? Specifically...

---

Quote:

---

Main Entry: moral
Part of Speech: adjective
Definition: ethical, honest

Synonyms: aboveboard, blameless, chaste, conscientious, correct, courteous, decent, decorous, dutiful, elevated, exemplary, good, high-minded, honorable, immaculate, incorruptible, innocent, just, kindly, kosher*, laudable, meet, meritorious, modest, moralistic, noble, praiseworthy, principled, proper, pure, respectable, right, righteous, saintly, salt of the earth, scrupulous, seemly, square, straight, true-blue, trustworthy, truthful, upright, upstanding, virtuous, worthy

Notes: moral (noun) means the lesson or principle of a story or event - (adjective) relating to lessons or principles of right and wrong; morale is a state of individual psychological well-being based upon a sense of confidence and usefulness and purpose or the spirit of a group that makes the members want the group to succeed

Antonyms: amoral, bad, corrupt, dishonest, evil, immoral, sinful, unethical, unprincipled, vile

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DarrinS

I don't understand the poll I posted.

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Just paranoid right-wingers seeing the COMMUNITY CENTER as reminder of how badly OBL beat America's ass, and beats it still today.

Right-wingers wrap themselves in the Constitution and "respect for the law" except when their ignorance and bigotry intervenes. "Get a brain, morans"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DarrinS

In other news, liberal film student, Michael Enright, stabbed a Muslim cab driver in the throat, face, and arm.


http://www.salon.com/news/politics/w...ght_hate_diary


http://www.salon.com/news/politics/w...y/md_horiz.jpg


I know you guys were hoping for one of those racist, Tea Baggers. Oh well.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by George Gervin's Afro


no one has answered the question,

what is insensitive about the mosque being built there? Specifically...

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by boutons_deux

Just paranoid right-wingers seeing the COMMUNITY CENTER as reminder of how badly OBL beat America's ass, and beats it still today.

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can't argue with that.