I'm betting at least one of them come back for more.Quote:
Originally Posted by George Gervin's Afro
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I'm betting at least one of them come back for more.Quote:
Originally Posted by George Gervin's Afro
Ran across this looking for something else. Make sure to hit the link for comments -- y'all should enjoy. :downspin:
Pearl's father: Move mosque
Maggie Haberman - POLITICO
Judea Pearl, the father of slain journalist Daniel Pearl, says the proposed Islamic center near ground zero should be moved, the Jewish Telegraph agency reports.
“If I were [New York] Mayor Bloomberg I would reassert their right to build the mosque, but I would expend the same energy trying to convince them to put it somewhere else,” he said. “Public reaction tells us that it is not the right time, and that it will create further animosity and division in this country."
Bloomberg invoked the memory of Daniel Pearl — who was killed by Islamic militants — during a forceful defense of the mosque last night, quoting a speech the project's leader, Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf, delivered at a memorial service for Pearl in 2003.
Judea Pearl doesn't join the condemnation of Rauf, who has become a primary target of the mosque's loudest critics, but does appear to attribute some blame to (or at least disappoint with) Muslim-Americans for the tenor of the debate:
Pearl told JTA that while he was “touched” by Rauf’s appearance and speech at his son’s memorial, “many Muslim leaders offered their condolences at the time.” More to the point, Pearl said he is discouraged that the Muslim leadership has not followed through on what he hoped would come from his son's death.
“At the time, I truly believed Danny’s murder would be a turning point in the reaction of the civilized world toward terrorism,” said Pearl, who engages in public conversations with Akbar Ahmed, an Islamic studies professor at American University, on behalf of the Daniel Pearl Dialogue for Muslim-Jewish Understanding. The established Muslim leadership in the United States, Pearl said, “has had nine years to build up trust by pro-actively resisting anti-American ideologies of victimhood, anger and entitlement."
"Reactions to the mosque project indicate that they were not too successful in this endeavor."
He views the controversy to be a vote of no confidence in the organized Muslim leadership, not specifically against Rauf.
I for one hope they build the mosque. How is it any different from a baptist church being built near ground zero?Quote:
Originally Posted by Yonivore
baptists didn't kill 3000 Americans silly...Quote:
Originally Posted by The Franchise
And, Baptist churches are rarely used to foment hatred toward America.Quote:
Originally Posted by George Gervin's Afro
Wait. Does Jeremiah Wright consider his poor excuse for a church, a Baptist church?
So are you telling us that America is above reproach and should never be criticized?Quote:
Originally Posted by Yonivore
Nope.Quote:
Originally Posted by George Gervin's Afro
I'm saying Muslims have a long history of using the cover of religion and the security of their religious institutions to subvert and plot no so religious activities.
I'm also saying they're willing to lie in order to advance their cause.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yonivore
Couldn't muslims meet an apartment and plan out attacks? Why would they do it at a mosque? Wouldn't that bring more attention to them? If they wanted to remain under cover woudln't the mosque is the last place they would be.... do you ever think yoni?
Do you ever think?Quote:
Originally Posted by George Gervin's Afro
Why would it bring more attention? Why would the mosque be the last place terrorists would meet?
because according to you that's where they meet under cover.... you're an idiot...Quote:
Originally Posted by Yonivore
Quote:
I'm saying Muslims have a long history of using the cover of religion and the security of their religious institutions to subvert and plot no so religious activities.
Why would Mosques, in which terrorism is being plotted, look any different than mosques in which the Imam is just a hate-spewing anti-American and how are those any different than the ones that are called moderate?Quote:
Originally Posted by George Gervin's Afro
Islam is a fairly exclusive religion. Not many non-muslims are allowed to waltz into their mosques and poke around.
I agree... so how do you know the mosque being built is a hate spewing anti- American establishment?Quote:
Originally Posted by Yonivore
Your argument is that this mosque will be used as a place where they will plot.
You then tell us that you can't tell a good one from a bad one...
yet you aren't complaining about other NY York mosques...
so in essence you don't want the mosque being built at ground zero based on assumptions and paranoia..
Based on the insensitivity and the organizers questionable associations and financing.Quote:
Originally Posted by George Gervin's Afro
Common decency would dictate they abandon the charade of building an interfaith bridge of understanding and just abandon the project altogether.
what specifically is insensitve about the mosque being built there? not one of the detractors has answered the question.Quote:
Based on the insensitivity and the organizers questionable associations and financing.
Or as you mentioned, it may be a place where moderates meet to help build an interfaith bridge of understanding.Quote:
Common decency would dictate they abandon the charade of building an interfaith bridge of understanding and just abandon the project altogether.
Victims families overwhelmingly oppose the construction of a mosque at Ground Zero. That alone is enough to ascribe insensitivity to their tone-deaf cries of Islamophobia.Quote:
Originally Posted by George Gervin's Afro
The consequences of it not being what they claim it will be are more damaging than the consequences of it not being built in the first place.Quote:
Originally Posted by George Gervin's Afro
Then how do you reconcile the support offered to the "mosque" by the same group?Quote:
Originally Posted by Yonivore
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yonivore
Excellent. The terrorists win. Good job.
Is it a group that represents an "overwhelming" majority of the victims families? But, even if, I would reconcile that by pointing to the AARP which, even though most of its members opposed the legislation, took a position in favor of Obamacare.Quote:
Originally Posted by TeyshaBlue
Yeah, denying them another Cordoba Mosque at the site of what radical Islam considers a great victory is a "win" for them.Quote:
Originally Posted by TeyshaBlue
You just stated that you don't know which mosque is good and which one is bad... how do you know that this one is bad...Quote:
Originally Posted by Yonivore
you don't think that any muslim who is supporting us doesn't see this as a slap in their face?
who do you think the families oppose the mosque being built there? what is it about the mosque?Quote:
Originally Posted by Yonivore
Like I've said, I don't but, the organizer has questionable associations and questionable financial backing.Quote:
Originally Posted by George Gervin's Afro
I think a reasonable Muslim would, at the very least, acknowledge how the building of a mosque at Ground Zero could cause anguish for the families of the victims of 9-11.Quote:
Originally Posted by George Gervin's Afro
I don't see any reasonable Muslims doing that except, of course, those that oppose the building of the mosque.
Here are some such Muslims:
Mischief in Manhattan
That organizers and proponents of the mosque refuse to even entertain a discussion of these points says more than their pronouncements of "bridge-building," and so on and so forth...Quote:
We Muslims know the Ground Zero mosque is meant to be a deliberate provocation
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yonivore
Why would the mosque cause anguish? it's a freaking community center.. What I suspect is that they are atributting those who struck on 9/11 to the muslim faith. They don't want a place of worship for other muslims because muslims caused 9/11 to begin with .... The opposition has to do with this being a muslim place of worship... man up and admit it..Quote:
I think a reasonable Muslim would, at the very least, acknowledge how the building of a mosque at Ground Zero could cause anguish for the families of the victims of 9-11.
Let me put it his way Yoni.. a (person of a certain faith) harms my family... I would not openly object to a place of worship (two blocks from the scene of a crime) that happens to be of the same faith of ther person who harmed my family...
For the reasons expressed by the Muslims in that article I linked...which you obviously had no time to read.Quote:
Originally Posted by George Gervin's Afro
If other Muslims can come to the conclusion this is nothing less than an act of "fitna" and possibly much more sinister, why should I be faulted for seeing the reasonableness of their argument?
I'm agreeing with other Muslims, after all.
I think the opposition has to do with well-founded concerns this is not what you believe and their billing it to be.Quote:
Originally Posted by George Gervin's Afro
Man up and admit the argument has merit and should be put to rest by the organizers.
Add a Jewish Synogogue and a non-denominations Christian Church to the "Community Center" if you're really wanting to engage in "interfaith bridge-building." Acknowledge the grief cause by your co-religionists and make a concerted effort to address the concerns of 9-11 victims' families instead of playing the victim yourself, screaming intolerance, and calling the families Islamophobes.
Let me put it this way, if a person harmed your family in the name of an organization that proposes to build a facility on the site where your family was murdered (it was a large crime scene -- the landing gear of one of the planes crashed through the building that sits on the site of the proposed mosque), you'd be peeved.Quote:
Originally Posted by George Gervin's Afro
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Franchise
Actually, there's not much difference at all. It's widely known that Babtists build enormous churches in areas where there are few practicing Babtists. And, like the Ground Zero mosque developers, the Babtists also bankroll their mega projects with suitcases full of untraceable cash.