how many synagogues and christian churches have a mosgue?
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how many synagogues and christian churches have a mosgue?
Concerns and opinions don't take the place of facts.... prove it. Until you can prove it then there is no reason to not build the mosque there.Quote:
I think the opposition has to do with well-founded concerns this is not what you believe and their billing it to be.
Nice litmus test.. the grief is rooted in the fact that muslims perpetuated 9/11... and now some other muslims want a community center that happens to be 2 blocks from ground zero..Quote:
Add a Jewish Synogogue and a non-denominations Christian Church to the "Community Center" if you're really wanting to engage in "interfaith bridge-building." Acknowledge the grief cause by your co-religionists and make a concerted effort to address the concerns of 9-11 victims' families instead of playing the victim yourself, screaming intolerance, and calling the families Islamophobes.
Personally, I'd prefer to appeal to the billions of moderate, and sincere Muslims rather than the handful of insane extremeists.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yonivore
It's a matter of -- well, it was a matter of compassion until the Imam decided he would completely ignore the concerns and press forward, enlisting idiots like you to go to bat for them.Quote:
Originally Posted by George Gervin's Afro
You meant perpetrated.Quote:
Originally Posted by George Gervin's Afro
When the Imam makes some gesture that shows he's considering the feelings of the victims of 9-11, I'll listen.
Again, it wasn't two blocks from ground zero. It was involved in the crime.
:lmao "billions of moderate, sincere Muslims."Quote:
Originally Posted by TeyshaBlue
Outside the United States, you won't run into many of that brand. And, I think inside the United States, there are many that would be less "moderate and sincere" if they thought they could get away with it.
In Washington State and the Detroit area, in particular, you see efforts to institute Sharia Law -- you know -- the kind that condones honor killings and such.
Billions. :lmao
You attribute lots of stuff to people you haven't met or experienced. Interesting. I have traveled extensively. I have dined in Muslim homes with clients. I have debated cultural relevancy, from a standpoint of profound ignorance (much like your position) no less, with adherants of Islam. I disagree, completely, with your characterization of Muslims both here and abroad.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yonivore
yoni doesn't really care about religion. he didn't..........until you're talkling about a black man.
It's not up to anyone to justify the location of the building. I don't see this is a muslim exclusive issue.. while you do. if it was any other religion you wouldn't be here bitching about it...Quote:
It's a matter of -- well, it was a matter of compassion until the Imam decided he would completely ignore the concerns and press forward, enlisting idiots like you to go to bat for them.
He doesn't have to do anything of the sort. Your side keeps changing the reasons why you don't want it there..Quote:
When the Imam makes some gesture that shows he's considering the feelings of the victims of 9-11, I'll listen.
How far is the building from where WTC was?Quote:
Again, it wasn't two blocks from ground zero. It was involved in the crime
Maybe that's my problem.....racial perspective. I mean, none of my clients were actually black Muslims.:lolQuote:
Originally Posted by clambake
he has the right wing blogosphere to inform him..Quote:
Originally Posted by TeyshaBlue
a black man who is a christian (wink,wink)Quote:
Originally Posted by clambake
That's not true. If Christians had flown planes into the World Trade Center, in the name of Jesus Christ, I would see where the victims' families my be peeved at the building of a Christian Church there.Quote:
Originally Posted by George Gervin's Afro
Jewish Synogogue, ditto...
You're right but, if he wants me to listen to him, he does.Quote:
Originally Posted by George Gervin's Afro
There are a multitude of reasons not to build the mosque there...the principle one being it's insensitive to the victims of radical Islam who died there. To not acknowledge that just adds to the disgust.
As the wheel assembly of a Boeing 747 flies, about 2 seconds.Quote:
Originally Posted by George Gervin's Afro
Since you never get out of there perverse ideology of the right wing blogosphere here's something to chew on:Quote:
Originally Posted by Yonivore
Quote:
If Muslims outside America “recognize in the American form of governance a genuine substantive workable expression and model of their centuries-old longing for the kingdom of heaven on earth,” he continues, “they can formulate their understanding of an Islamic state along these lines.”
Well, good for you. My family was host to two Muslim men for three years in the 70's. One radicalized and died in some Jihad a few years later. I'm still in contact with the other.Quote:
Originally Posted by TeyshaBlue
How do you address the Muslims that call this an act of fitna? Would you say they have a "profound ignorance" of their own culture?
Your side of the argument is the one interjecting hyperbole. Any opposition is immediately characterized as "Islamaphobia."
So? Who said it and in what context and how much of the Muslim faith does he represent and, finally, does the speaker actually believe what he is saying?Quote:
Originally Posted by George Gervin's Afro
Imam Feisal Abdul RaufQuote:
Originally Posted by Yonivore
dumb ass...
I would sit down with those that consider this an act of fitna. BTW, my understanding of this term is that it has many, many levels of meaning often contextually dependent. I would have to understand at what level of fitna that this scenario fits. I can see some moderate and reflective Muslims reaching this viewpoint. I can't fault them for it. Doesn't necessarily mean I share the viewpoint. Again, since I don't know (and presumably, you don't either) the context of fitna, I can't really address the question realistically. I doubt you could either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yonivore
who killed thousands and thousands of innocent muslims after saying he talked to god?
you see, for yoni, this isn't about religion at all.
Something Imam Rauf seems unwilling to do.Quote:
Originally Posted by TeyshaBlue
The Muslims claiming it is fitna put it in context for you in the article I linked earlier in this thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by TeyshaBlue
But would you characterize their opposition as Islamaphobia? I would hope not. And, you recognizing this is a viewpoint that could be reached by moderate and reflective Muslims is more than the organizers and public proponents of the Ground Zero Mosque are willing to do.Quote:
Originally Posted by TeyshaBlule
Well, I know the context in which it was used by the Muslims in that article. Read for yourself.Quote:
Originally Posted by TeyshaBlue
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yonivore
Yeah, I've read that letter before. I understand and even sympathize with that viewpoint. I can see where it can make some uncomfortable. The Muslim community is big enough to generate many different viewpoints and that feeling of "cultural liability" ie...complicit by common root association, is not unique to them at all.
To these I would say that I understand their reluctance. However, since it seems to be practically inevitable that it will be built, how can you use it as an opportunity for bridging relationships?
he's not interested in that. he wants war...........of course without personal involvement.Quote:
However, since it seems to be practically inevitable that it will be built, how can you use it as an opportunity for bridging relationships?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackjack
Contradicting one's self seems like a waste of energy.
How far away is considered appropriately far for these people?
3 blocks away?
outside of New York?
outside of the country?
So, it's not Islamophobic to disagree with the placement of a mosque at Ground Zero? It's not a extreme position to hold?Quote:
Originally Posted by TeyshaBlue
But, not completely inevitable and, until it is built, why not continue to voice your opposition?Quote:
Originally Posted by TeyshaBlue
Seems like a bridge to cross when it's actually built. But, until the mosque is a reality, those that oppose it should continue to voice that opposition.Quote:
Originally Posted by TeyshaBlue
Honestly, Yoni. That's a ridiculous arguement. A Muslim Islamophobe? Have you lost your mind?:lol A Muslim can oppose the placement of a mosque...but he's completely incapable of being an Islamophobe doing it. There's a mutal exclusion built in the definition of Islamophobe.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yonivore
For all intents and purposes, it's a done deal. If you want to continue to voice your opposition, knock yourself out. Use reasoned logic (not Muslim Islamophobes) to support your opposition and you'll dodge the Islamophobe label.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yonivore
They/you have every right to do that. When the Mosque is completed, it's probably time to stop.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yonivore
Yoni knew a Muslim once and therefore can judge every Muslim.
That's like concluding every American is a lying, stupid, ignorant Islamophobe after reading one of Yoni's posts.