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I will never forget that day. We saw the worst of mankind, and the best of America on that tragic day.
35 years ago:Quote:
Originally Posted by Cane
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...Who_-_1975.jpg
Republicans have politicized 9/11 to such a ludicrous point that I don't know whether I should be more sad about Americans having lost their lives, or you right wing fucks using those lost lives as an excuse to waste trillions on the military industrial complex and slaughter brown skinned Muslims. Basically, when I think of 9/11 I think of what shitty people half of my compatriots are.
You must be talking about the lack of national security that allowed hijacked planes to fly unabated for over 2 hours..Quote:
Originally Posted by Crookshanks
Al Queda, or what we call Al-Queda, was a country-less entity...you don't fight terror organizations by attacking a country that has a few members..the Neo-Cons seized 9/11 as an opportunity to jump-start their agenda of taking Iraq's natural assets and instilling a banana republic, just as they tried in South and Central America in the 70s and 80s...Quote:
Originally Posted by balli
Actually, from a "realist" worldview, all rogue elements HAVE to be funded by someone, somewhere and in order to dress up the arguments for war you need to display a case involving a State. Sure enough, the world community bitched at us but ended up looking the other way so we could do whatever it is in the Middle-East - still not sure what we tried to do cuz it's been such a clusterfuck from the start.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nbadan
When remembering 9/11, the most important thing we can do is remember that it was our initiation into a new group that we took for granted - a group we never thought we'd belong to. Fanatical violence occurs all over the world, much more than 3000 people die a year in countries we know nothing about, much less care about. If nothing else, 9/11 is a time to recognize that we're connected to them and all the nameless victims. Those countries, those families, don't have the luxury of pausing for a single day to remember the bruatality they live in...never forget THAT.
There was plenty of evidence involving some state involvement, just not the state the Neocons wanted...Quote:
Originally Posted by Stringer_Bell
global researchQuote:
On the 9th of September while General Ahmad was in the US, the leader of the Northern Alliance Commander Ahmad Shah Masood was assassinated. The Northern Alliance had informed the Bush Administration that the ISI was allegedly implicated in the assassination.
The Bush Administration consciously took the decision in "the post September 11 consultations" with Lt. General Mahmoud Ahmad to directly "cooperate" with Pakistan's military intelligence (ISI) despite its links to Osama bin Laden and the Taliban and its alleged role in the assassination of Commander Masood, which coincidentally occurred two days before the terrorist attacks.
Meanwhile, senior Pentagon and State Department officials had been rushed to Islamabad to put the finishing touches on America's war plans. And on the Sunday prior to the onslaught of the bombing of major cities in Afghanistan (October 7th), Lt. General Mahmoud Ahmad was sacked from his position as head of the ISI in what was described as a routine "reshuffling."
In the days following General Ahmad's dismissal, a report published in the Times of India, revealed the links between Pakistan's Chief spy Lt. General Mahmoud Ahmad and the presumed "ring leader" of the WTC attacks Mohamed Atta. The Times of India article was based on an official intelligence report of the Delhi government that had been transmitted through official channels to Washington. Quoting an Indian government source Agence France Press (AFP) confirms in this regard that: "The evidence we [the Government of India] have supplied to the US is of a much wider range and depth than just one piece of paper linking a rogue general to some misplaced act of terrorism."
The revelation of the Times of India article has several implications. The Indian intelligence report not only points to the links between ISI Chief General Ahmad and terrorist ringleader Mohamed Atta, it also indicates that other ISI officials might have had contacts with the terrorists. Moreover, it suggests that the September 11 attacks were not an act of "individual terrorism" organised by a separate Al Qaeda cell, but rather they were part of coordinated military-intelligence operation, emanating from Pakistan's ISI.
The Times of India report also sheds light on the nature of General Ahmad's "business activities" in the US during the week prior to September 11, raising the distinct possibility of ISI contacts with Mohamed Atta in the US "prior" to the attacks on the WTC, precisely at the time when General Mahmoud and his delegation were on a so-called "regular visit of consultations" with US officials.
In assessing the alleged links between the terrorists and the ISI, it should be understood that Lt. General Ahmad as head of the ISI was a "US approved appointee". As head of the ISI since 1999, he was in liaison with his US counterparts in the CIA, the Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) and the Pentagon. Also bear in mind that Pakistan's ISI remained throughout the entire post Cold War era until the present, the launch-pad for CIA covert operations in the Caucasus, Central Asia and the Balkans
The existence of an "ISI-Osama-Taliban axis" was a matter of public record. The links between the ISI and agencies of the US government including the CIA are also a matter of public record. The Bush Administration was fully cognizant of Lt. General Ahmad's role. In other words, rather than waging a campaign against international terrorism, the evidence would suggest that it is indirectly abetting international terrorism, using the Pakistani ISI as a "go-between".
The Bush Administration's links with Pakistan's ISI --including its "consultations" with General Ahmad in the week prior to September 11-- raise the issue of "complicity". While Ahmad was talking to US officials at the CIA and the Pentagon, ISI officials were allegedly also in contact with the September 11 terrorists.
In other words, according to the Indian government intelligence report, the perpetrators of the September 11 attacks had links to Pakistan's ISI, which in turn has links to agencies of the US government. What this suggests is that key individuals within the US military-intelligence establishment might have known about the ISI contacts with the September 11 terrorist "ring-leader" Mohamed Atta and failed to act.
global researchQuote:
While the Pakistani Inter Services Public Relations claimed that former ISI director-general Lt-Gen Mahmoud Ahmad sought retirement after being superseded on Monday [8 October], the day the US started bombing Afghanistan], the truth is more shocking. Top sources confirmed here on Tuesday [October 9], that the general lost his job because of the "evidence" India produced to show his links to one of the suicide bombers that wrecked the World Trade Centre. The US authorities sought his removal after confirming the fact that $100,000 were wired to WTC hijacker Mohammed Atta from Pakistan by Ahmad Umar Sheikh at the instance of Gen. Mahmoud. Senior government sources have confirmed that India contributed significantly to establishing the link between the money transfer and the role played by the dismissed ISI chief. While they did not provide details, they said that Indian inputs, including Sheikh's mobile phone number, helped the FBI in tracing and establishing the link.
A direct link between the ISI and the WTC attack could have enormous repercussions. The US cannot but suspect whether or not there were other senior Pakistani Army commanders who were in the know of things. Evidence of a larger conspiracy could shake US confidence in Pakistan's ability to participate in the anti-terrorism coalition. 19
According to FBI files, Mohamed Atta was "the lead hijacker of the first jet airliner to slam into the World Trade Center and, apparently, the lead conspirator" 20
The Times of India article was based on an official intelligence report of the Delhi government that had been transmitted through official channels to Washington. Agence France Press (AFP) confirms in this regard that:
A highly-placed government source told AFP that the "damning link" between the General and the transfer of funds to Atta was part of evidence which India has officially sent to the US. `The evidence we have supplied to the US is of a much wider range and depth than just one piece of paper linking a rogue general to some misplaced act of terrorism,' the source said. 21
^^^ lots of conditional/subjunctive verbiage. Why so tentative to conclude?
Unless it's basically bullshit hinting at something it doesn't really know in the first place.
global research and Wayne Madsen claim to hear the whispers inside the guild, but in practice they'll throw anything at all into the blunderbuss.
A college friend of mine -- a teammate of mine on our college football team -- was killed that morning at Cantor Fitzgerald. I think of him often, but particularly on the anniversaries of September 11.
This is the best poem I've read regarding the subject:
White September Sky
How did it look to them
in the first frozen second of the brand new war,
when sky and fire opened the walls?
Vengeance is not enough.
Sometimes it seems the dead are waiting,
ghost riders paused in shock before they go
on to wherever they go.
They want us to see what they saw,
as their exploded memories began to unravel
through the air, until only the air remained.
We watched the clouds they became,
their dust filling our eyes, our lungs, our blood.
We breathe them in, we have no choice,
and their blood flows in us, as we move, stately,
into the passion of war, the romance of revenge.
But some remember, in that second at the window,
lovers, children, all the white Septembers of joy.
Bless them in the middle of fire, bless their blood,
heroic, that we bring to war, bless their final end.
Vengeance is not enough. They wait for peace.
~ Anthony Libby, Chicago Tribune
September 23, 2001
:toastQuote:
Originally Posted by heroes of flight 93
"Let's roll."
yeah, the Repugs really rolled all those millions of Iraqi terrorists that attacked WTC. The Repugs wasted 1000s more US military lives than OBL murdered WTC people.
09/01 Statement of Congressman Dennis Kucinich:
Reaction to Terrorist Attacks Against US
Tuesday, 11 September 2001
Washington, Sep 11 -
America grieves this day for the victims of these terrorist attacks, and for their families and friends. Our prayers are with them and our hearts go out to those who have endured unbearable loss today. Our most hopeful thoughts are with those who have risked their lives in heroic rescue efforts. In this grim moment, we must be resolute in protecting the fabric of our democracy and the individual freedoms that make America a great nation. As we grieve, we cannot let terrorists win by turning the United States into a national security state. We cannot let their dialogue become our dialogue.
America must remain calm because such calm is essential to preserving our liberties. America must bring to justice those responsible for these cowardly deeds. We must be cautious about rolling back freedoms at home or placing blame in the wrong place.
America must continue to be a beacon of democracy for the world. Let this sad moment cause all governments and all people of good will around the world to unite and to move together to challenge and uproot those who have destructive goals which seek to create death and drive the world toward chaos. Now, more than ever, America must continue to be a force for peace in the world. We must not let the terrorists win.
===========
America ignored Kucinich, so America let the terrorists win.
Remember Kucinich as you, your pregnant wife's foetus, young children are forced to be irradiated to get on a plane.
:sleep Nothing to do with Todd Beamer and his display of courage.Quote:
Originally Posted by boutons_deux
The WTC attack can't be considered in isolation from the disastrous, botched US response to it.
9/11 was an inside job.
I'd dispute that.Quote:
Originally Posted by boutons_deux
How a government reacted to thousands of murder is related to the individuals who lost their lives for no reason that day, but that subsequent decision doesn't change the heroism of those who helped save lives on 9/11 and it doesn't change the tragedy of the lives that weren't saved that day.
I'm taking nothing away from the "responders", nor the people who were murdered.
The Repugs exploited WTC to go after Iraq's oil, while pulling resources out of Afghanistan, botching both wars and fucking up both countries, all of which was and still is MUCH WORSE for America and the world than OBL's crimes.
Ok, so you can consider the effects of the 9/11 attack in isolation from the response that the attacks engendered from the American government.
http://aacounterterror.files.wordpre...eorge-bush.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by Crookshanks
:rolleyes
WTC was pinprick economically, not even Manhattan was hurt that much, never mind the entire economy and country.
The American erroneous reaction and over-reaction has been extremely expensive in lives, liberty, privacy, money, and will continue to be for decades. Now they're gonna xray pregnant mothers and children. OBL is laughing his ass off. He suckered America worse than the VRWC, BecKKK, etc sucker red-state bubbas and tea baggers.
Personally, I believe separating them to make us feel a bit better on this day is a disservice. The truth is that the memory of those people we seek to honor on this day is now invoked far too often for political gain and was invoked to start those wars.Quote:
Originally Posted by FromWayDowntown
When Condi Rice spoke of mushroom clouds she wanted the images of 9/11 to appear for people and she wanted people to remember in order to get the political outcome and pressure that administration sought. Today the GOP uses 9/11 as a threat and a political chip.
I can't get sentimental on 9/11 any longer. That sentimentality is used by our politicians to lead us down horrible paths. When I hear or read the words "never forget" I feel patronized beyond belief : Is it so POSSIBLE for me to block the greatest event of my lifetime to this date that other supposedly more patriotic members of my country feel the need to remind me? I feel as though I'm just being asked to be part of the rabble rousing and I feel the memory of those lost being used so cheaply.
Maybe for others its possible to memorialize on that day, but for me its not. The past 10 years have made sure of that.