This discussion only has to do with CURRENT nba players.
http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=5926209
Printable View
This discussion only has to do with CURRENT nba players.
http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=5926209
Wow. Surprised Manu was only as high as #5 on the lists.
Im actually surprised they mentioned him... Good to see he's being recognized though. Jalen Rose was arguing with him the whole time when he mentioned Ginobili...
One of the things that made MJ, Bird etc and a guy like Horry clutch players was the plays they made off the ball and on defense in those moments. Something that arguably only Manu and Kobe have consistently shown in their careers, the ability to impact the game in the clutch in ways other than shooting.
Because the Spurs are so popular with the media?Quote:
Originally Posted by SpursDynasty85
Jesus... even he doesn't sound like he believes what he's spouting!
ESPN tries sooooooo hard to sell brand-name commodity players -- it's like watching out-dated instructional videos in a marketing class.
I'm not. Clutch to some people means they get lots of attention in big games. The Spurs players rarely get any respect. Writers have to painfully admit that Duncan is the greatest PF of all time, but they still find creative ways to ignore him at every turn just as they do the entire team, e.g. "quietest 20-3 start of all time" -SteinQuote:
Originally Posted by SpursDynasty85
Well, of course. Ginobili is not one of the usual suspects mentioned when it comes to elite clutch players. Not a big enough hype machine, so he doesn't count. Never mind what the stats say, it's apparently fun to continue to further this myth that Bryant is a more clutch player than him.Quote:
Originally Posted by JR21
The reality is there isn't a better closer in the game than Ginobili. If you're talking last shot, that's different (statistically, Anthony is the best, even though the media likes to continue to pretend it's Bryant). But I'm talking last 6-8 minutes of a close game, who would you rather have with the ball in their hands than him? I'd take Pierce second.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DMC
Yeah while we're on the subject i have always wondered why we don't get this respect. Our team has been so great for so long and never have they gave us the respect due. They always just try to blow us off. Why exactly is that, just because we weren't as flashy as others or is it because of the team were on. Because if Duncan was wearing purple and gold with manu and tony im pretty sure they would have been considered the greatest team of all time by now...
i cant open that link at work, could someone post the list for me please coz yesterday i had a discussion with a laker fan on other forum and he says fisher is the best clutch player in history.....
Manu at the buzzer!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qum0F22NmXg
Yeah i completely agree with your response including peirce at no. 2. But the funny thing is when you mentioned about Bryant. Particulary the shot that came up in my head was the last shot of game 5 against Phoenix last year when Ron Artest bailed him out. Or his Game 7 finals performance of last year... :sleepQuote:
Originally Posted by TD 21
Yupp... I could sense some uneasiness when Bayless listed Ginobili at #5Quote:
Originally Posted by admiralsnackbar
Jalen RoseQuote:
Originally Posted by tdunk21
5 Dirk
4 Carmelo
3 Wade
2 Pierce
1 Kobe
Skip Bayless
5 Manu
4 Carmelo
3 Pierce
2 Wade
1 Kobe
I was surprised when they mentioned Manu due to the fact the media isn't so friendly with the Spurs......
Skip Bayless loves the Spurs and is always talking about them so it's not really a surprise.Quote:
Originally Posted by DieHardSpursFan1537
It's hardly surprising that the Spurs' start has hardly registered a beep on the national media's radar. That's just how it is. As Tim has alluded to before, the time when the Big 3 plus Pop retires (a sad, sad day), is the time to look back and really evaluate where they stand in history. Then, people will realize, if they are at all objective, just what this core group has achieved during their run. Too bad for them because they'll already have missed the great show that we Spurs fans have been watching and enjoying for years now.
The only thing that really annoys me about the lack of national media respect is the lack of coverage of their games in my local cable channel. :lol
I agree. Manu usually gets the most love from analysts when I see the spurs play on t.v. Second, The whole point of the show is to have the most accurate list. If it means putting in a player thats not a superstar or not that popular, they usually will because it makes them appear smarter when their player proves them right later on. Plus, Manu just hit a big shot the night before. But! It is pretty stiff competition.Quote:
Skip Bayless loves the Spurs and is always talking about them so it's not really a surprise.
thanxQuote:
Originally Posted by duncan228
Skip defending his Manu pick on twitter:
http://twitter.com/REALSKIPBAYLESS
Quote:
Anyone who thinks Manu isn't current top 5 clutch doesn't watch him. Duncan calls him "our closer." Drives, dishes, step-backs, gets to line
From 2005-7, Manu was consistently in the top 3 clutch players statistically (can't remember exactly how they measure it, but it was pts and %s in last 2 mins I think). Injuries derailed his last two seasons, but right now he looks as good as he was back in his prime. He is definitely one of the top few clutch players in the game.
Bet he wishes he could have said that to Jalen Rose.Quote:
Originally Posted by NASpurs
What is this "back in his prime" nonsense I always hear? Forget his age or the fact that he may not be quite as athletic as he once was (though he's close), this is his prime. His play this calendar year is right up there with 04-05 and 07-08.
I don't get it. If Duncan's play this season was up there with 01-02 and 02-03, would he not still be in his prime? Or is it all about age and athleticism? It should be more about efficiency and production.
Okay, let's compromise - he is effectively having a second prime. No doubting his play is up to the standard of 2005-07, even with somewhat diminished athleticism.Quote:
Originally Posted by TD 21
The reason I said "back in his prime" is age and athleticism - most player's athletic prime is their late 20s, and he is 33. It's rare for SGs not to decline by his age.
Its simple. He's just extended his prime. If prime is age and athleticism, then it would be more like 23-25 yrs of age. The point is to get smarter and more efficient until your physical outweighs the rest. I'd still take a 04-05 manu over a 10-11 manu, but he has altered his game with a deadly 3 point and playmaking ability. Very similar to Kobe. Kobe's best year was his 07 MVP year. people might complain blah blah blah, but to me, that year is the first year really "got it".Quote:
Okay, let's compromise - he is effectively having a second prime. No doubting his play is up to the standard of 2005-07, even with somewhat diminished athleticism.
The reason I said "back in his prime" is age and athleticism - most player's athletic prime is their late 20s, and he is 33. It's rare for SGs not to decline by his age.
Wow...no lebron on either list? I'm shocked!
I don't think this is Manu's prime. He was a better player 4-5 years ago, it's just that Tim Duncan, at that point, was the best player in the league and Manu didn't having the scoring opportunities he does now.
And to not have Manu in your top-5 clutch players is ludicrous. He has hit more important, clutch playoff shots than Dirk and Melo combined, and he's putting in the work this year as well. I'd have him at 3 behind Bryant and Wade.
Yeah, me too (ahead of Wade actually) but we are Spurs fans so who gives a shit what we think?Quote:
Originally Posted by mingus
No, he's effectively still in his prime, despite his advancing age and diminishing athleticism.Quote:
Originally Posted by RuffnReadyOzStyle
Efficiency and productivity should dictate a player's prime, not their birth certificate.
Jalen Rose is a turd
Boston celtics have been a fluke team since there super team was assembled. Yes they made it to the finals. BIG DEAL. The east has been\is total crap.
Quote:
Originally Posted by admiralsnackbar
Jalen Rose has always been a big fan of Ginobili. I got the chance to talk to him over the summer and the first name that came out of his name was Ginobili.
Fail...Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Worlds_finest
Boston is no fluke. I guess their 22pt comeback against SA a few years back on the Texas Triangle trip (in which they beat all of the Texas teams) was a fluke? Championships are never flukes. The concept of it is ludicrous and screams out "I know jack shit about basketball".
Manu must fly and dunk the ball with his teeth to get the #1 :ihitQuote:
Originally Posted by SpursDynasty85
Manu not a go to guy. Da fukkk????
This is kind of like asking whether Jordan was still in his "prime" during the second threepeat. Athletically, he was nowhere near as gifted as in the early 90's. He may have been a better player though, developing that fadeaway and post-up game.Quote:
Originally Posted by TD 21
Wonder if this list would change now?
Jalen Rose a moron for knocking Ginobili the way he did.
No question about it anymore. Manu #1
Off camera :lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Ginobili2Duncan
LOL that Dirk and Carmelo are on the lists. Those guys haven't even sniffed at an NBA title, how can you call them clutch....oh,wait, Dirk sniffed and then became the most ANTI-CLUTCH player ever. wtf
Manu is my #1 pick
+1Quote:
Originally Posted by TD 21
I don't know about diminishing athleticism? Manu has never been a freak athlete like a Lebron or a Vince Carter, so it's hard to tell if his athleticism has gone down. To me, he still moves the same as he did 4 or 5 years ago, but he has now become a better shooter and passer.
5.ray allen
4. wade
3. pierce
2.kobe
1.manu
no doubt about it