Barkley: Ginobili is the best international player of all time

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Originally Posted by 024

i think barkley just forgot about dirk and tried to cover it up.

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This.

If you HAVE to win, you put MANU in over Dirk. Manu will come up with something big whether it be a defensive steal/stop/keeping ball inbounds/charge or a shot/offensive play.

Dirk is an amazing shooter, but Manu is 10000000% heart. He could be a quadruple amputee and still do something to contribute.

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Originally Posted by Man In Black

You can't change your nationality or place of birth on a whim. You are who you are.

The US Virgin Islands, like Puerto Rico are part of the US but given their own special consideration. There is a Puerto Rican National Team. If Carlos Arroyo is considered an International then why can't Tim Duncan be considered the same?
Remember, Arroyo spent 4 years at an American University. So, me calling Tim an International is DIFFERENT because the NBA defined the criteria.

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Gee I don't know, maybe because Arroyo actually plays for Puerto Rico and not the US?

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Originally Posted by Bruno

Dirk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Manu

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Really? All 17 of them?

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Originally Posted by galvatron3000

I'd take Manu over Drazen and Dirk. You can't statistically track Manu's value and honestly most afro american NBA players don't want to credit being outplayed, outsmarted and just not as good as Manu is. Most don't want to acknowledge how good he REALLY is but I'd take him starting a team any day.

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You swap manu for Dirk and you have Duncan and Dirk together. Thats a tough combo on the frontline. The spurs are deep in the backcourt, Hill and Anderson can take the minutes at the 2. Can't pass up Dirk for Manu.

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Originally Posted by Dartherus

By being strictly logical, International player should exclude any player who was in any of the dream teams, no matter if he was born outside USA.....

That should rule out players like Tim, Kobe or the Dream....

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I think becoming a naturalized citizen at the age of 30 makes one an international player.

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Gee I don't know, maybe because Arroyo actually plays for Puerto Rico and not the US?

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There no diff. except the fact the Virgin Islands never had a National basketball team when Duncan was playing for the U.S. If there was, he said he would no doubt have played on the Virgin island teams. - Thank god he didn't, he would have been the anchor of those teams and shortened his career even further.

But back to manu or Dirk? I would say Dirk because he is 7 feet tall and ungaurdable. Manu is the same way, but he has to work much harder to do those things on the court. Although I say its very very close. The way Manu can do all things on the court is just amazing, but you know Dirk can hit 3's all day where as Manu can do what he does for certain parts of the game.

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Originally Posted by Josepatches_

Petrovic was a beast in Europe.He had more than one game with 60 points playing euroleague.He had the best talent but he didn't play enough time in the NBA.In New Jersey he had 2 seasons over 20 ppg (20,6 and 22,3) but he was 28 and 29.His prime was over.

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MJ won his first ring when he was 28. Dražen was in his prime and would be a great player at least until 33. He was a great shooter and I see him just as Ray Allen who is also old, but is still one of the best shooters in this league.

Not sure where they go on the list but Gasol, Nash, Mutombo and our own Tony Parker should also be mentioned.

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Originally Posted by SpursDynasty85

There no diff. except the fact the Virgin Islands never had a National basketball team when Duncan was playing for the U.S. If there was, he said he would no doubt have played on the Virgin island teams.

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They did and he didn't.

The Virgin Islands have had a national basketball for decades. In fact, the Virgin Islands NT was in the same group as the US team led by Duncan at the 2003 FIBA Americas championship. The two teams met on August 23, 2003 with the Duncan-led Americans defeating the VI by a score of 113-55.

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Originally Posted by SpursDynasty85

There no diff. except the fact the Virgin Islands never had a National basketball team when Duncan was playing for the U.S. If there was, he said he would no doubt have played on the Virgin island teams. - Thank god he didn't, he would have been the anchor of those teams and shortened his career even further.

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Had he played for the Virgin Islands then I probably would've considered him an international player, but the fact that he hasn't, that he played for the US national team and that he played for 4 years in the NCAA and the rest of his life in the NBA makes him not an international player in my book.

The Manu/Dirk argument depends on what your team needs at the time. You can't compare Dirk and Manu straight up though........ lots of bad comparisons being drawn here.

There is no right answer. It depends on how you define it. If you count strictly any player born outside of the U.S., then it's Duncan first, then Hakeem and everyone else is a distant third.

If you say any player who attended an American university doesn't count (meaning Nash and Ewing too) then it's a different conversation, and Sabonis and Petrovic would be considered.

However, if you define it strictly as foreign born players who didn't attend a US university and who are judged strictly on what they've done in the NBA and nothing else...

then it's between Dirk, Pau and Manu, period. IMO, they're all very close and the argument of who's the best between them changes almost daily. Manu is the most complete, but he almost has to be by definition because he's a swingman.

I'd just say Dirk's the best scorer/shooter, Pau's the best big and Manu's the best all-around/clutch player and leave it at that. I guess it's a cop-out.

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Originally Posted by DAF86

Really? All 17 of them?

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Yes, all 17 of them.

Dirk is just a way better player than Manu. I don't even see how someone could disagree with that.

love me some gino, but dirk is better

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They did and he didn't.

The Virgin Islands have had a national basketball for decades. In fact, the Virgin Islands NT was in the same group as the US team led by Duncan at the 2003 FIBA Americas championship. The two teams met on August 23, 2003 with the Duncan-led Americans defeating the VI by a score of 113-55.

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I dont remember exactly what interview it was from. But in Duncan's early years, they talked about how the Virgin Islands never had a legitament national team that could play in the olympics. I don't know. I'm probably wrong about this.

But once Tim Duncan stepped into uniform for the US national team, he was no longer eligible to play for his Virgin Islands team. I also remember in that interview Tim Duncan saying he would have loved to play for the Virgin Islands basketball team because his friends were all on the team and it hurt him to beat them.

It was a real television source like TNT or NBC. I just can't find any videos or anything on it on the internet.

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Originally Posted by SpursDynasty85

I dont remember exactly what interview it was from. But in Duncan's early years, they talked about how the Virgin Islands never had a legitament national team that could play in the olympics. I don't know. I'm probably wrong about this.

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Probably they meant that they aren't good enough to get to the Olympics and/or do anything there.

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Originally Posted by SpursDynasty85

I dont remember exactly what interview it was from. But in Duncan's early years, they talked about how the Virgin Islands never had a legitament national team that could play in the olympics.

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That's not what you initially said. You said that he played for the American team because there was no team from the VI.

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That's not what you initially said. You said that he played for the American team because there was no team from the VI.

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Yea. I was definitely wrong. The reason why he chose U.S team over the V.I team wasn't very clear, and I dont remember exactly. The point I was trying to make was that Duncan said he would have chose to play with the V.I had he the opportunity. I thought the V.I didnt' have a team, I guess I was wrong.

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Probably they meant that they aren't good enough to get to the Olympics and/or do anything there.

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That would make Duncan seem like a Lebron-type bandwagoner. I don't think Duncan would do that, but again, I could be wrong.

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Originally Posted by Darthkiller

wtf , are u serious.

sabonis was a center, bird was a point guard(forward).

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Yes, I am serious.

Tim Duncan plays for the US National Team, that makes him from the US.

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Originally Posted by BlairForceDejuan

If you HAVE to win, you put MANU in over Dirk. Manu will come up with something big whether it be a defensive steal/stop/keeping ball inbounds/charge or a shot/offensive play.

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Or Manu will foul Dirk and the Spurs will lose the WC finals :lol

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Originally Posted by Bruno

Yes, all 17 of them.

Dirk is just a way better player than Manu. I don't even see how someone could disagree with that.

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Well, Dirk might be better but I don't think he is way better than Manu, IMO they're both in the tier behind the superstars, if Manu would have had the chance of beign a go to guy in his prime I know for sure that he would have been succesful, Spurs fans should know that Ginobili is underrated.

And Dirk is one of the greatest shooters of all-time but I think he's a little overrated because of this, people look at this part of his game in awe and overlook the fact that he's a below average rebounder (for a star PF), defender and passer (for any kind of player).

Disclaimer: I'm talking about the Dirk we got 'till this season, the 47% shooter, if he keeps his current crazy efficiency through the whole season he more than makes up for his shortcomings in other areas and should be the MVP.