Barkley: Ginobili is the best international player of all time

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Originally Posted by Martin R

Tim Duncan plays for the US National Team, that makes him from the US.

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No, Duncan is from the USVI. Everyone from the USVI have US citizenship from birth. He has been a US citizen his entire life. That is irrelevant from which national team he played for at the Olympics.

fuck Chuck & kenny. kenny Smith only has a title cuz he was riding the rockets bench behind Olajuwan, Drexler, Horry, Maxwell, Thorpe, & Ellie. Chuck couldn't get it done and then tried to do it with the rockets but still coulnd'nt get it done. They dont know shit about shit.

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Originally Posted by Bruno

Yes, all 17 of them.

Dirk is just a way better player than Manu. I don't even see how someone could disagree with that.

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I can send you my photo because I disagree.

Just ask yourself, if you had your choice of each in their prime, who would you take, in what order:

Hakeem
Dirk
Draz
Manu
Sabonis (the young one)
Nash
Pau Gasol
Zarko


I don't add Timmy to the list, but go ahead if you want to.

I think most GMs would take Hakeem because of the position he played and he's a game changer on both ends, an inside dominant player.

Now ask yourself who you would want with the lead and 13 seconds on the clock. Then ask yourself who you would want with the ball with a 1 point deficit and 13 seconds on the clock.

I would take Manu in both situations.

I think we need to stop classifying players as "international", especially when they have played in this league for 10 years. I understand the previous desire to do so when these guys were just starting to filter into the mix, but now it's like baseball. A good player is just that, regardless of where he's from. They all learn from Better Basketball staring JJ Reddick, probably the best shooter the NBA's ever seen.

If Charles is basing his assessment on championships then he is absolutely right.

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Originally Posted by Bruno

Dirk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Manu

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This

IMO the best international player of all time
1a. MANU
1b. PARKER
2. Who gives a shit.

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Originally Posted by Bruno

Yes, all 17 of them.

Dirk is just a way better player than Manu. I don't even see how someone could disagree with that.

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Manu's a winner; Dirk is a loser.

That is their main difference.

And comparing a 7 footer with a guard is stupid.

Imo Manu's NBA career just doesn't stack up since he's patriotic to Argentina. Who knows what kind of numbers and awards a younger, rested, and healthy Ginobili could've put up (however Manu's PER and advanced stats are among the leagues' best)...instead he was winning and sacrificing his body for Argentina in addition to San Antonio. Then again having multiple NBA championships, Olympic Gold, etc is nothing to scoff at. I also agree with the point that the Spurs Big 3 would be hailed as HOF gods in a larger market like NY's but thats what happens in cities with a huge media infrastructure and great pride.

With the game on the line he'd be my go-to international guy though. Manu's clutch game is one of the best that the sport of basketball has ever seen.

If you watch the video posted, you will realized why Duncan or even Hakeem shouldn't be considered. They played in US college, and then NBA.
They are talking about players that played overseas before the NBA.. So it's between Drazen, Manu, Dirk, Sabonis and even Gasol. (i'm sorry if i'm forgeting someone here)

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Originally Posted by smeagol

And comparing a 7 footer with a guard is stupid.

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As is saying that Dirk's a loser. He might not be the winner Manu is but he's no loser.

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Originally Posted by Pero

As is saying that Dirk's a loser. He might not be the winner Manu is but he's no loser.

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Define loser please.

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Originally Posted by DMC

Most think Drazen was the best.

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He didn't play long enough to be considered. He was a great offensive player but did he have a complete game ? I don't think so.

Plus, just to play along, what about Olajuwon ? The guy was amazing.

For me it's Ginobili. Dirk makes a strong case but Manu's resume of being a winner outdoes Dirk by a long shot.

Drazen was an awesome shooter but sadly I have to give him a INCOMPLETE.

1.Dream
2.Manu
3.Dirk

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Originally Posted by smeagol

Define loser please.

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LOL I'm afraid I don't have a particular definition but it definitely isn't someone who carries a team of nobodies to medals. :)

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Originally Posted by tmtcsc

He didn't play long enough to be considered. He was a great offensive player but did he have a complete game ? I don't think so.

Plus, just to play along, what about Olajuwon ? The guy was amazing.

For me it's Ginobili. Dirk makes a strong case but Manu's resume of being a winner outdoes Dirk by a long shot.

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Olajuwon shouldn't be considered an international player either.

For me, Dirk is the best international player in the NBA ever. Petrovic is a what could have been, we'll never know. I guess I'd put Manu second, but if he was as durable as Dirk and the main option he'd probably be first.

1. Manu
2. Dylan
3. Dylan
4. Dylan
and Dylan.

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Originally Posted by sandman

No, Duncan is from the USVI. Everyone from the USVI have US citizenship from birth. He has been a US citizen his entire life. That is irrelevant from which national team he played for at the Olympics.

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I thought once you choose to play for one of your "possible teams" you can not play for the other NT anymore.
I never ever heard jounalist referring to TD as "real" a foreign player.

Tim Duncan is the best, you must be a fool to think Dirk or Manu are best ever,

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Originally Posted by spursfan1000

Tim Duncan is the best, you must be a fool to think Dirk or Manu are best ever,

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Duncan is as foreign as Kobe or LeBron

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Originally Posted by Pero

LOL I'm afraid I don't have a particular definition but it definitely isn't someone who carries a team of nobodies to medals. :)

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Dirk has been surrounded by stars and a couple of All stars. He's had all kinds of good players around him and he has never won a championship. His team has been knocked out of the playoffs by the 8th seed when they were the 1st seed and by the 7th when they were the 2nd.

He might not be a loser in the complete meaning of the word, but he is pretty damn close . . .

Manu, OTOH, is a complete winner. He's won it all. And he is a more fierce competitor than Dirk. Again, it is difficult to compare two players that play different positions and have different skill sets. In any case, everybody is entitled to their opinion.

I don't think you can define which player is better because they play different positions. Dirk is more of a mismatch, but Gino has more intangibles. Dirk has size, but Gino has heart. Dirk has been the man on his team and has lead them to many wins, but Gino has more hardware, both, NBA, Olympics, WC, and Euro leagues. That last point to me would provide some separation between to the two in my opinion.

By the one other thing I think that really separates the two is that Gino is more of a creator. Dirk is good at drawing the double and kicking out to an open man, but Gino is better with the ball in his hands and creating on his own to get his team open shots.

I know what you're thinking, that it's because Gino is a guard and Dirk is a big man, but I'd consider Duncan a creator as well. He could initiate the offense from the block. I don't think Dirk is the initiator on offense the way Duncan is, and Gino is asked to be at times.

And the reason I didn't include Nash is because he's so limited on defense that he can't be possibly in contention for best ever. The guy is a a talent, and cold blooded in the clutch, but as much of a hassle as he is on offense, he's that big of a liability on defense. And the guy is really fucking good on offense, so that should tell you what a bad defender he is.

Yo I didn't want to start a thread on this but I'm going to the game tomorrow and I have a quick question. What time do they let people file into the AT&T center on gameday?

Who was the first team to beat an NBA US team? Argentina (Manu MVP)
Who beat them again in a olympics semifinal? Argentina (Manu MVP)
These 2 achievement were done by only 1 team in the history of the game with Manu being the centerpiece.
Rings? 3
I think there's only 2 players that won NBA, Euroleague and olympic gold.. Manu is one of them..