Quick Grades: Spurs vs. Grizzlies - Dec. 18

Quick Grades: Spurs vs. Grizzlies

The Spurs were careless with the ball. The defense was a step slow. Each possession seemed a bit labored. But, as has been the case this season, the Spurs found a way to win. It took overtime but San Antonio outlasted Memphis 112-106. The Grizzlies deserve a lot of credit for continuously fighting back each time it appeared as if the Spurs had gained the upper hand. The victory extends the winning streak to eight games and improves the record to 23-3.

Tim Duncan B+ Produced at a good clip but slow decision making on both ends.

Manu Ginobili A- Great playmaking but defense was missing in action at times.

Tony Parker A+ Stayed in attacke mode all night. Relentlessly fought for the win.

Richard Jefferson B+ Scored and rebounded well but sloppy with ball and on D.

DeJuan Blair D- Still not rebounding and was poor on the offensive end.

George Hill INC Missed the game with a sprained big toe.

Matt Bonner C- Helpless against Zach Randolph. As of late, has been playing soft.

Gary Neal B- Competed on the glass once again. Still shooting. Defense still iffy.

Antonio McDyess A- His defense against Randolph late was key in getting the win.

Chris Quinn A Stepped in for Hill and knocked down shots. Relatively good on D.

Tiago Splitter C+ Made a few more passes but that’s about it. Invisible on the glass.

Ime Udoka F- Spurs would have been better off with the Coyote playing Udoka's minutes. Seriously.

Richard wasn't very aggressive on O during the first half, but started to pick it up in the 2nd.

His foul trouble really hampered his intensity, though. He bad lucked into a lot of those.

F- Udoka


What did you expect him to do?
15/8/3/3 kinda game?

There is no question above :grim:

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Originally Posted by polandprzem

F- Udoka

What did you expect him to do?

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Be a DNP in the boxscore.

Ime is the reason I grew up with NBA aspirations.

Ime Udoka should have gotten an A+. The fact he wasn't a -20 should be fact that he did a commendable job by his own standards.

Bonner's +/- of -8 is telling; he cannot defend Zach Randalph. I hope Pop remembers in the future.

Udoka is pathetic.

Simple "knowledge" of Pop's system doesn't automatically mean you perform well in it. Assuming Hill is healthy and ready to go next game, I say move Quinn over to PG duties while Parker's gettin a breather and let George handle the 2/3. Chris has shown to be more than capable given spot minutes.

I don't wanna see Ime on the floor again unless it's garbage time, and even then, I have my trepidations.

Accurate grades as usual. I wouldn't mind bringing in the Coyote instead of Udoka. BUT a win is a win.

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Originally Posted by polandprzem

F- Udoka


What did you expect him to do?
15/8/3/3 kinda game?

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Did you watch the game? He lost, fumbled or dropped the ball every time he had it in his hands ... I want James Anderson back!

I was at this game tonight, I was yelling 10 seconds in "ime is a disease! Udoka understand nothing!"

He was just awful. So glad to see pop reach out with a cane off curtain and yank him off the stage.

Zach Randolph was just impossible to keep off the glass. Was telling my friend with me at the game that they had to be saving dice for the second half to really play the grizzlies bigs more aggresively.

First game i've caught at the AT&T Center this year, it's always exciting to catch a game go into overtime, more exciting to get the win. But once the game high begins to fade the thoughts start swirling back at the game and you just feel slightly disappointed that they didn't blow this team out like they COULD have. And it throws in a little fear in how they have done so far against this younger aggressive players that can rebound create such mismatches so far in this early season.

Nit-picky, but i'm loving the spurs season this year as much as last year. Actually I don't mind any year except that dry spell after free agency has died in the summer and i'm stuck with Golf/FIFA/Baseball highlights to cull me over till football and basketball season start up again.

I hate golf/fifa/baseball highlights.

Spurs have 2 weeks and a half to waive Quinn and Udoka before their contract became guaranteed for the rest of the season. It surely looks like Udoka will be waived and Quinn will be kept for the year.

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Originally Posted by Bruno

Spurs have 2 weeks and a half to waive Quinn and Udoka before their contract became guaranteed for the rest of the season. It surely looks like Udoka will be waived and Quinn will be kept for the year.

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It would be ok if Quinn stayed, but Udoka needs to go!

Instead of the usual "AT & T connection of the game", there should have been a "AT & T turnover of the game" this time. My vote would go to Ime for his pathetic attempt of a pass to Timmy in the second quarter (it was in the low post), with Tony's 8-second violation a close second. Overall though, a assist-turnover-ratio a litte over 2-1 is not bad at all.
Spurs made a lot of mental mistakes in that one, and RJ should have sealed the game with a dunk late in the fourth quarter. Spurs would have been up by 7 with roughly a minute to go. Not being able to keep Z-Bo off the glass was bad as well, but on the other hand, there were a lot of Spurs stepping up (most notably, Tony), and I'm certainly glad we got the win.

Need more from Bonner... hes the Spurs 2nd most important big behind Duncan and the team will need a good effort when hes guarding Dirk and Pau for 30 minutes a night in the playoffs.

Pop knows what hes doing.

TP was fantastic, he was in 2009 playoff form. Dice was a big key to the win. Z-Bo had a tough time when Dice was in.

Quinn did a a very good job, props to him.

Tiago was pathetic on the boards, Blair played one of his worst games in the NBA, he got killed everytime and played dumb on O.

And Udoka is just a joke, he's the 2nd worst player in the entire league, only Mason Jr sucks more. I'll say it again, he was done in 2008, why the hell bring him back. I hope we'll cut him soon

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Originally Posted by timvp

Ime Udoka F- Spurs would have been better off with the Coyote playing Udoka's minutes. Seriously.

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:rollin:rollin:rollin:rollin:rollin:rollin:rollin: rollin:rollin

IMO Parker's grade needs to be docked a bit just for that boneheaded 8 second mistake he made. That's not an all-star PG move right there.

This far into the season it still looks like the Spurs are going to have to rely on one more fountain of youth for Dice.

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Originally Posted by ploto

This far into the season it still looks like the Spurs are going to have to rely on one more fountain of youth for Dice.

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Agree, so far Dice is the best big to play next to Duncan. His D this season has been very solid

Bonner and Playoffs never work, Blair is having a bad season, especially when he plays against big guys like yesterday. Tiago is having problems to rebound the ball.

http://blog.mysanantonio.com/spursna...18-306x195.jpg

Using hobbit magic to improve his shooting...

As far as Udoka is concerned, anyone think if the Suns start to blow it up after their latest trade that we might be able to get Grant Hill to back up Jefferson? The Suns should be willing to do Grant a favor, and we are the best team (record-wise) in the NBA right now.

Udoka is playing terrible basketball, but the reason the Spurs signed him was because of his understanding of the system. I think they might keep him past the contract guarantee date, esp. if James Anderson is still out.

Also, the latest and greatest in Melo rumors says the Nuggets will wait until the deadline to move him. Udoka could be included in a trade on Feb. 24 if the Knicks/Nugs are looking for a third team to supply a pick. Even if it's unlikely, it's better that the Spurs leave themselves the option of including Udoka's salary in a deal.

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Originally Posted by Thompson

As far as Udoka is concerned, anyone think if the Suns start to blow it up after their latest trade that we might be able to get Grant Hill to back up Jefferson? The Suns should be willing to do Grant a favor, and we are the best team (record-wise) in the NBA right now.

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Sounds good, but who exactly do you suggest the spurs to recieve his 3+ mil contract? Also, since he has an expiring contract what good would this do for the suns to move him for other expiring contracts. No, bonner is not gonna be moved either..

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Originally Posted by tav1

Udoka is playing terrible basketball, but the reason the Spurs signed him was because of his understanding of the system. I think they might keep him past the contract guarantee date, esp. if James Anderson is still out.

Also, the latest and greatest in Melo rumors says the Nuggets will wait until the deadline to move him. Udoka could be included in a trade on Feb. 24 if the Knicks/Nugs are looking for a third team to supply a pick. Even if it's unlikely, it's better that the Spurs leave themselves the option of including Udoka's salary in a deal.

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Good point(s), tav1

Wish the spurs would look at ewing jr. Averaging 19 ppg and 8rpg in the d-league. Also shooting 38% from 3pt. At 6'8, he would be an intriguing project i think and would bring some extra energy off the bench at that position.

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Originally Posted by yavozerb

Sounds good, but who exactly do you suggest the spurs to recieve his 3+ mil contract? Also, since he has an expiring contract what good would this do for the suns to move him for other expiring contracts. No, bonner is not gonna be moved either..

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I'd trade Bonner for Hill. Grant Hill as RJ's backup would be fucking awesome and seeing Tiago finally play would be awesomer.

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Originally Posted by TJastal

I'd trade Bonner for Hill. Grant Hill as RJ's backup would be fucking awesome and seeing Tiago finally play would be awesomer.

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The fact that you would approve such a deal should say it all. This deal is not only stupid for the spurs, but also makes no sense for the spurs or the suns.

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Originally Posted by yavozerb

The fact that you would approve such a deal should say it all. This deal is not only stupid for the spurs, but also makes no sense for the spurs or the suns.

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What's the problem? You really think Grant Hill wouldn't fit into this offense? He's still a dangerous open court player he'd be perfect spotting up for 15 footers on the break. And he can still play some damn good defense. Can you imagine a small ball lineup of Parker/Hill/Hill/Jefferson/Duncan? That's not too bad if you ask me, as long as RJ keeps his stellar PF play up. Bonner's
3pt shooting is so fucking overrated on this board, I swear. :rolleyes

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Originally Posted by TJastal

What's the problem? You really think Grant Hill wouldn't fit into this offense? He's still a dangerous open court player he'd be perfect spotting up for 15 footers on the break. And he can still play some damn good defense. Can you imagine a small ball lineup of Parker/Hill/Hill/Jefferson/Duncan? That's not too bad if you ask me, as long as RJ keeps his stellar PF play up. Bonner's
3pt shooting is so fucking overrated on this board, I swear. :rolleyes

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:lol, you keep outdoing yourself with these crazy comments...Ya, I guess shooting over 50% from 3pt is pretty bad these days.

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Originally Posted by yavozerb

Wish the spurs would look at ewing jr. Averaging 19 ppg and 8rpg in the d-league. Also shooting 38% from 3pt. At 6'8, he would be an intriguing project i think and would bring some extra energy off the bench at that position.

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If Spurs wants to try new players, they will likely wait until January 5th when teams are allowed to sign players to ten days contract.

Spurs could even waive Udoka in early January just before his contract became guaranteed and then signed him to 2 ten days contracts before trying prospect in February when Anderson would be likely back from his injury.

I didn't realize Hill was making that much. I doubt the Spurs would trade their perimeter big; maybe Hill will ask to be bought out to avoid wasting his last couple of years. The Suns owe him.

Quick thought. Does everyone consider agression meaning drives to the basket. I tend to look at FT attempts as a meassure of agression. When I see zero attempts, I consider it very low aggression versus 10 attempts which I would consider very agressive.

Thoughts?

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Originally Posted by Thompson

I didn't realize Hill was making that much. I doubt the Spurs would trade their perimeter big; maybe Hill will ask to be bought out to avoid wasting his last couple of years. The Suns owe him.

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Hill has made 4 separate decisions (in the summers of 07, 08, 09, and 10) to go to Phoenix and to stay there. He'll be a free agent again this summer.

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Originally Posted by yavozerb

:lol, you keep outdoing yourself with these crazy comments...Ya, I guess shooting over 50% from 3pt is pretty bad these days.

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That's great and all, but he's playing 3 more mpg than his career average and barely putting 0.3 more ppg. Right now his off-the-charts 3 point shooting is barely making up for the shittier 2 point shooting and FT shooting.

Pop going to Dice to close this game was the difference. Bonner should never ever be matched with above average rebounders.

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Originally Posted by mingus

Ime is the reason I grew up with NBA aspirations.

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The Spurs should have given you his minutes.

So I guess you figured, if Ime can be on a team, anyone can, even my grandmother (mine) and she's been dead for 20 years.

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Originally Posted by YODA

Quick thought. Does everyone consider agression meaning drives to the basket. I tend to look at FT attempts as a meassure of agression. When I see zero attempts, I consider it very low aggression versus 10 attempts which I would consider very agressive.

Thoughts?

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Sometimes it's more about the defensive scheme of the other team. Often good players won't get to the line because no one stops their penetration.

Also, aggression means more than just driving to the rim. It means moving the ball fluidly around the circle and finding open looks, or moving without the ball (something that many players seem to simply avoid doing).

I think the Spurs attack the rim as much as anyone, but they are also very good at getting there unmolested. Tony Parker last night was in bullet speed mode. That guy is the very definition of "one man fast break". I've never seen anyone do it as well or as often as he does.

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Originally Posted by ElNono

That's great and all, but he's playing 3 more mpg than his career average and barely putting 0.3 more ppg. Right now his off-the-charts 3 point shooting is barely making up for the shittier 2 point shooting and FT shooting.

Pop going to Dice to close this game was the difference. Bonner should never ever be matched with above average rebounders.

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<<<What he said.

And another thing.............what's more important, Bonner's 3pt shooting or Manu being able to get rested for the playoffs? Which Grant Hill would allow him to do in abundance.

The fact that you wouldn't trade Matt Bonner for Hill is what I find rather insane.

Gary Neals defense is great. He hustles and he irritates his opponents more than anyother spur's wing iv'e seen. What he can work on, is following his opponents off of pick & rolls. I think the bigs can help out just a little bit more on this.

Otherwise I think Gary Neal played a fine game that deserved at least a "B". He seemed to shoot well and stay aggressive also.

Using the standard of grading against the potential of the player, Dice should get an A for his contribution on defense against Randolph. Played over his ability.

Blair's game goes in the tank everytime he starts trying to be an offensive option. He needs to do one thing and one thing only and that is rebound.

Letting Randolf do what he did gives one the impression that Blair is simply soft when pushed by another big player. He can push around the skinnies, but loses his heart when challenged by folks of equal stature.

Blair should study Randolph for some tips on rebound positioning.

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Originally Posted by foodie2

IMO Parker's grade needs to be docked a bit just for that boneheaded 8 second mistake he made. That's not an all-star PG move right there.

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I also don't like that earlier in the game when the ball was in bounded to him he let the ball roll across the damn floor before picking it up very nonchalant, with no sense of urgency. I don't know if anyone caught that, but I did and I immediately thought something could happen with laziness like that, and when later he had that turnover in the back-court, I could only think, "damn I frickin knew it".

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Originally Posted by ElNono

That's great and all, but he's playing 3 more mpg than his career average and barely putting 0.3 more ppg. Right now his off-the-charts 3 point shooting is barely making up for the shittier 2 point shooting and FT shooting.

Pop going to Dice to close this game was the difference. Bonner should never ever be matched with above average rebounders.

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Do you really think that Bonner was the only player matched on Randolph last night? TD,Mcdyess, Blair, and Splitter all were matched up on him last night at one time or another and from what I remember all had the same results. Pretty lame to blame Randolphs game last night on Bonner since Randolph has now been playing like this for 2 seasons with grizzlies now and does the same thing to most pf's in the league. Pretty far reach on extra 3 minutes per game on bonner, but keep trying to explain how he hurts the spurs on the offensive side of the ball.

TP was awesome, the spin moves were extremely smooth.
Udoka is pretty bad

yeap, Spurs get outrebounded bigtime,
show the 09-10 version of Jefferson (not easy to airball a wide open 10 footer),
turn it over 3 times in the final minute,
with an unprecednted 8'' violation,

and the problem is Ime Udoka.

Typical.

I'll give Ime a C+ because the 3-pointer he shot was right on the money. He just put it a little short. Ime's gonna go for 15 and 7 one of these days and all you bastards are gonna be singing his praises.


In reality i wish they would have kept Hairston. He knew the system just as well as Ime. I won't say that to blackjack though. He'll tear up.

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Originally Posted by yavozerb

Do you really think that Bonner was the only player matched on Randolph last night? TD,Mcdyess, Blair, and Splitter all were matched up on him last night at one time or another and from what I remember all had the same results. Pretty lame to blame Randolphs game last night on Bonner since Randolph has now been playing like this for 2 seasons with grizzlies now and does the same thing to most pf's in the league. Pretty far reach on extra 3 minutes per game on bonner, but keep trying to explain how he hurts the spurs on the offensive side of the ball.

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I've watched the same game you did. It's exactly the fact that ZBo is a good player that you don't give him 2nd and 3rd chances by putting an atrocious rebounder on him. Ofcourse he's gonna score and ofcourse he's going to rebound. The question is how hard you make him work for it.

His 3 point shooting % IS overrated here because he's still putting the same numbers he has put his entire career without shooting this well. It really is the epitome of cherry picking.

And please, quote where I said Matt hurt us on the offensive end? Wait, I didn't.
But be ready to discuss his overall body of work. I don't want to hear "It's well known he's a bad rebounder"... He plays on a position that demands boarding and defending. It's part of the job description. Same thing applies to Blair, BTW, who didn't have a good game either last night.

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Originally Posted by _JaG

I'll give Ime a C+ because the 3-pointer he shot was right on the money. He just put it a little short. Ime's gonna go for 15 and 7 one of these days and all you bastards are gonna be singing his praises.

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What's the point though? Vindication? You know those days are the exception, not the rule. If Anderson can't be ready for the playoffs (don't think he'll be) we seriously need to upgrade that position.

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Originally Posted by SA210

I also don't like that earlier in the game when the ball was in bounded to him he let the ball roll across the damn floor before picking it up very nonchalant, with no sense of urgency. I don't know if anyone caught that, but I did and I immediately thought something could happen with laziness like that, and when later he had that turnover in the back-court, I could only think, "damn I frickin knew it".

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Yea imo Parker, RJ, and Duncan had nearly inexcusable blunders in clutch time: Duncan for passing up that layup at the end of the 4th, RJ with his foot out of bounds, and Parker's lapses of laziness. :bang

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Originally Posted by ElNono

What's the point though? Vindication? You know those days are the exception, not the rule. If Anderson can't be ready for the playoffs (don't think he'll be) we seriously need to upgrade that position.

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It was a joke, brah. That's why i followed that statement with "In reality...".

You really thnk I'm going to assign a C+ to a guy because he managed to shoot the ball straight and only missed because he needs more arm strength?

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Originally Posted by Cane

Yea imo Parker, RJ, and Duncan had nearly inexcusable blunders in clutch time: Duncan for passing up that layup at the end of the 4th, RJ with his foot out of bounds, and Parker's lapses of laziness. :bang

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:tu

Yea with those mistakes, I feel they were lucky to have won. Hopefully they fix those errors soon.

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Originally Posted by yavozerb

Wish the spurs would look at ewing jr. Averaging 19 ppg and 8rpg in the d-league. Also shooting 38% from 3pt. At 6'8, he would be an intriguing project i think and would bring some extra energy off the bench at that position.

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Ewing's team plays the Toros today at 5, btw.

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Originally Posted by ShoogarBear

Blair should study Randolph for some tips on rebound positioning.

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:clap

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Originally Posted by ElNono

I've watched the same game you did. It's exactly the fact that ZBo is a good player that you don't give him 2nd and 3rd chances by putting an atrocious rebounder on him. Ofcourse he's gonna score and ofcourse he's going to rebound. The question is how hard you make him work for it.

[B]His 3 point shooting % IS overrated here because he's still putting the same numbers he has put his entire career without shooting this well. It really is the epitome of cherry picking.[/B]

And please, quote where I said Matt hurt us on the offensive end? Wait, I didn't.
But be ready to discuss his overall body of work. I don't want to hear "It's well known he's a bad rebounder"... He plays on a position that demands boarding and defending. It's part of the job description. Same thing applies to Blair, BTW, who didn't have a good game either last night.

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1st off I am really not sure what the hell you are talking about him "putting up the same numbers" cause I didnt realize Bonner has shot 50% in a season before from 3 pt range. I dont think I have ever heard of someone who is making 3pt shots at a 50% clip called "cherry picking" before. Making a shot from almost 24 feet is anything but a gimme. Its also not like Bonner is doing anything differently on the boards that he has not done before in his career. His career rebounds per game is 3.5 boards a game and guess what he is averaging this year, exactly 3.5 boards a game. Oh, almost forgot, where in the big man "job description" does it say that must be a top 3 three pt shooter in the league? Sorry to dissappoint, but not all players are the same and not all have the same strengths and weaknesses. Do you think Bonner would be in NBA today if he could not shoot the 3pt shot?

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

Ewing's team plays the Toros today at 5, btw.

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thanks..you going to the game?

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Originally Posted by yavozerb

1st off I am really not sure what the hell you are talking about him "putting up the same numbers" cause I didnt realize Bonner has shot 50% in a season before from 3 pt range. I dont think I have ever heard of someone who is making 3pt shots at a 50% clip called "cherry picking" before. Making a shot from almost 24 feet is anything but a gimme. Its also not like Bonner is doing anything differently on the boards that he has not done before in his career. His career rebounds per game is 3.5 boards a game and guess what he is averaging this year, exactly 3.5 boards a game. Oh, almost forgot, where in the big man "job description" does it say that must be a top 3 three pt shooter in the league? Sorry to dissappoint, but not all players are the same and not all have the same strengths and weaknesses. Do you think Bonner would be in NBA today if he could not shoot the 3pt shot?

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While you were comparing his rebounding averages career wise vs this season, did you look at PPG and MPG? If you did, you will see exactly what I'm talking about putting up the same numbers. He's shooting substantially better from 3 in more mins, yet barely putting actually more points. The reason? Both his 2 pt and FT have taken a dip this season. Merely focusing on his shooting % instead of looking at the overall contribution is cherry picking.
Matt Bonner is what he is. IMO, he's handled a role that on most nights sets him up to fail. That's not his fault. Just don't come telling me his 50% shooting is going to make up for the abuse a guy like ZBo can put on him.

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Originally Posted by _JaG

It was a joke, brah. That's why i followed that statement with "In reality...".

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:tu

And FWIW, there's no 'big man should shoot 3' in the big man job description. But when your job is to guard the top big men in the league, 3.5 boards will not get it done.
As I said many times, if Bonner would play SF, then I would have much less of a problem in general. Probably guys like Odom and Durantula would abuse him, but its much less of a liability than in the paint.