Manu Ginobili: Slump or decline?

I've been noticing Manu's game has been going downhill since mid December and I wanted to discuss if this has to do with a slump or if he is just wearing down already. The last 4 games he's been really off, especially his FG%.
Before that date, he was averaging 20p a game and since then he only had 2 +20 games and only just 1 game (vs WAS) where his FG% was good.

Should we be worried?

MIN FGM-A 3PM-A FTM-A OFF DEF REB AST STL BLK TO PF PTS
Jan 04 @ NYK L 115 - 128 34 5 - 11 1 - 4 4 - 4 0 5 5 5 1 1 3 2 15
Jan 01 vs. OKC W 101 - 74 25 2 - 11 2 - 7 3 - 4 0 1 1 7 1 0 2 0 9
Dec 30 @ DAL W 99 - 93 30 4 - 11 4 - 8 3 - 5 0 8 8 3 0 1 3 2 15
Dec 28 vs. LAL W 97 - 82 32 3 - 12 2 - 7 1 - 2 2 2 4 6 3 1 4 3 9
Dec 26 vs. WAS W 94 - 80 29 8 - 13 5 - 7 0 - 0 0 0 0 1 3 0 1 1 21
Dec 23 @ ORL L 101 - 123 20 3 - 10 1 - 3 3 - 4 3 2 5 6 0 1 2 1 10
Dec 22 vs. DEN W 109 - 103 36 6 - 15 4 - 9 6 - 8 2 2 4 6 1 1 0 2 22
Dec 20 vs. PHX W 118 - 110 36 4 - 11 2 - 9 5 - 6 0 2 2 3 3 1 2 1 15
Dec 18 vs. MEM W 112 - 106 38 4 - 10 1 - 3 6 - 7 1 2 3 9 1 1 2 1 15
Dec 16 @ DEN W 113 - 112 31 5 - 15 2 - 10 4 - 4 0 3 3 4 1 0 1 3 16

One of the primary fears of the Spurs amazing start was that Manu would wear himself thin by mid-season. 2008 and 2009 was all we needed to see to know how far we get in the playoffs without a healthy Manu.

That being said, let's pray this is just a slump...

I call slump. I didn't think his energy wasn't there last night. He just wasn't sharp, to put it mildly.
Overall in the last few games, I only think in the Orlando game he had tired legs. Otherwise, he just missed shots.

Slump and sickness, I think.

Manu cant finish at the rim like he used to, thats pretty apparent. But tbh I think he's changed his game and is now more perimeter oriented...this was the case even at the start of the season. I think his shot is just off right now, which is to be expected at some points throughout an 82 game season. Slump tbh.

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Originally Posted by Kori Ellis

Slump and sickness, I think.

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He's STILL sick? Chriiiist. You'd think w/ the money these players make, the doctors on the Spurs payroll, and maybe a quick visit to one of the local curanderas, he'd be on the up-and-up by now.

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Originally Posted by Kori Ellis

Slump and sickness, I think.

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+1

The return of James Anderson, as well as the ASB, should give him the appropriate rest for the finish. I can see his minutes per go down like Duncan's has.

:flag:

still could be sick with that sore throat

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Originally Posted by E-RockWill

+1

The return of James Anderson, as well as the ASB, should give him the appropriate rest for the finish. I can see his minutes per go down like Duncan's has.

:flag:

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Maybe. If he has a good january he might go to the ASW. He was until mid December the best player in the best team.

The decline, as I have seen it, is that Manu shoots everything. He doesn't look for the pass as much as he used to. Maybe that's his new role, or maybe being a starter makes him believe he's a better shooter. He's not a good shooter. He's ok, but he takes the most 3s in the league and isn't close to hitting the most.

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Originally Posted by Fpoonsie

He's STILL sick? Chriiiist. You'd think w/ the money these players make, the doctors on the Spurs payroll, and maybe a quick visit to one of the local curanderas, he'd be on the up-and-up by now.

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It's not like the expensive doctors have the best cures.

Done.......

slump and laziness on turnovers

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Originally Posted by vanvannen

Maybe. If he has a good january he might go to the ASW. He was until mid December the best player in the best team.

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IMO, he still is the best player on the best team.

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Originally Posted by Fpoonsie

He's STILL sick? Chriiiist. You'd think w/ the money these players make, the doctors on the Spurs payroll, and maybe a quick visit to one of the local curanderas, he'd be on the up-and-up by now.

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I don't know if he's still sick. I'm just saying that in the 4-game stretch in question, he was sick for at least 3 of those games.

i think its better we go through these slumps/difficulties etc with each player so we can keep adjusting and improve our ability to adapt to win games. Manu is not on? go with tony, no tony, tim. No big three? hope for three point shooting. Nothing going right? bounce back strong int he next game, no b2b losses.

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Originally Posted by DMC

It's not like the expensive doctors have the best cures.

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Well, there goes MY whole belief system...

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Originally Posted by Kori Ellis

I don't know if he's still sick. I'm just saying that in the 4-game stretch in question, he was sick for at least 3 of those games.

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Oh. Yeah, well, here's hopin...[fingers crossed]

Man. when you 29-5 i guess you have to REALLY look for something to gripe about ...
even in this so called slump, manu has made plenty of "winning plays" in the clutch. Who cares if he goes 2-12 through 3 quarters if he has balls of steel in the 4th?

in fact despite this recent return to the "mean" ... shouldnt manu get some MVP consideration? not saying he should win, but if Miami had this record or the lakers Wade/Lebron or Kobe/Pau would be the favorites for the award ...

Not saying he can play the whole year at the level he was on but if he finishes strong and the winning % doesnt drop by much he has to be inthe top 3 for MVP at least if you use recent history for MVP as a criteria ...

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Originally Posted by Killakobe81

Man. when you 29-5 i guess you have to REALLY look for something to gripe about ...
even in this so called slump, manu has made plenty of "winning plays" in the clutch. Who cares if he goes 2-12 through 3 quarters if he has balls of steel in the 4th?

in fact despiet this recent return to the "mean" ... shouldnt manu get some MVP consideration? not saying he should win, but if Miami had this record or the lakers Wade/Lebron or Kobe/Pau would be the favorites for the award ...

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It's cliche at this point, but you're forced to take the good w/ the bad when it comes to Manu. Unfortunately, when he's going through slumps like these, he can try to do TOO much (not necessarily shooting his way out, but errant passes or dumb defensive fouls) to make up for his poor play...which, in turn, can really hurt the team.

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Originally Posted by Fpoonsie

It's cliche at this point, but you're forced to take the good w/ the bad when it comes to Manu. Unfortunately, when he's going through slumps like these, he can try to do TOO much (not necessarily shooting his way out, but errant passes or dumb defensive fouls) to make up for his poor play...which, in turn, can really hurt the team.

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But sometime in games when Manu is the deciding factor late he makes those dumb plays ...in fact (though i dont see every game like i did when i lived in S.A.) ... his greatest blocks, steals or clutch drives usually comes after a dumb foul, forced pass or bad shot. He is just uber competitive and it happens. Just like laker fans hve to deal with kobe's double clutch over two people sometimes ...the great "shot makers" or even play-makers take tough shots or force those passes because they:

1. know they can hit them or make them
2. in the clutch you get very few wide open looks or passing lanes ...you have to "practice them" at times in games ...

Trust me I yell at the TV when Kobe does his forced crap too ...but overall i know it's the gift and the curse of most great players. Duncan doesnt do that but he is a anomaly the exception to the rule ...most great competitors force some of their will on agame even if they are cold ...because they never doubt they can catch fire ...

It's like when farve or manning forces a pass in football they do it because they believe they can get there before the DB and in a small window, and many times they do ...sometimes they fail.

[sigh]

Yeah, I know. I simply wanna eat my cake, too.

Manu the all world competitor that he is will come out blazing vs. the Cs book it now.

As a doc, I am sure Kori is spot on with the lingering effects of last weeks illness for Manu - whether it was strep or a virus, as either can certainly still affect you days after the major symptoms are gone with more subtle symptoms of fatique and decreased excercise tolerance (i.e, this past week with a cold I had to dramatically reduce the amount of time and intensity on a treadmill personally) + travel, even under the first class type the Spurs do has to take a toil in the short-term.

Moreover, he has not been over-used this year minutes wise so I doubt anything major is happening unless he has an unannounced injury.

I expect to hear many more Manu Ginobiliiiiiiiiiiiiiii's this year!

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Originally Posted by Rummpd

Manu the all world competitor that he is will come out blazing vs. the Cs book it now.

As a doc, I am sure Kori is spot on with the lingering effects of last weeks illness for Manu - whether it was strep or a virus, as either can certainly still affect you days after the major symptoms are gone with more subtle symptoms of fatique and decreased excercise tolerance (i.e, this past week with a cold I had to dramatically reduce the amount of time and intensity on a treadmill personally) + travel, even under the first class type the Spurs do has to take a toil in the short-term.

Moreover, he has not been over-used this year minutes wise so I doubt anything major is happening unless he has an unannounced injury.

I expect to hear many more Manu Ginobiliiiiiiiiiiiiiii's this year!

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I expect that too ...and if Pop left him in last night I doubt spurs win but Manu would not of gone down without a fight.
Tonight's game should be good ...

PG Parker vs. Rondo (edge Rondo but it's close)
SG Manu vs. allen (edge Manu)
SF RJ vs. Paulina (edge PP but RJ can makea huge difference here and has had some previous success against Pierce in the playoffs)
PF Blair vs. Davis (we all know Blair aint no center great matchup of guys who play bigger than their size)
C Duncan vs. Shaq the best big man of the past decade against the most dominant (for a while)

Best game of the night IMHO and should of been the ESPN game, utim glad they chose the Lakers vs. suns

Come on Manu. Grab your bottle of Chloraseptic spray and get back out there !

:flag:

I blame TP for Manu's sucking :stirpot:

Both. But I don't worry too much, because Ginoboli is so talented, that even if hes in decline athletically, he makes up for it with his all around game.

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Originally Posted by lefty

I blame TP for Manu's sucking :stirpot:

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You blame TP for everything, including your own sucking :lmao

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Originally Posted by will_spurs

You blame TP for everything, including your own sucking :lmao

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Yes yes

And yours

First I could give him a game or two because of sickness but I think he was feeling fine the other day so I don't think it was because he was sick. I don't think it's due to him being tired physically. How tireding is it to shoot jump shots now and not be aggressive at all driving through the lane or at least try to get to the line like he's capable of. His shots are just not falling and he's not even trying to be aggressive at this time.

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Originally Posted by Kori Ellis

Slump and sickness, I think.

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There is something going around that is a respiratory illness. It doesn't cause much fever, but you get hoarse, have mucus in you lungs and it affects your respiration.

Most people in good health just dismiss it as a minor cough because it doesn't have dramatic effects--and I bet a trained athlete like Many would try to ignore it because of his competitive nature.

It takes several weeks to get over it.

Slump and perhaps just taking it a bit easy here and there. We all know Manu is one of the best at turning it up when he needs to...

As long as he's healthy, a slump/sickness doesn't really matter. His inability to finish at the rim, on the other hand is very discouraging. He seems to have lost a lot of jumping capability comparing from last year.

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Originally Posted by wildbill2u

There is something going around that is a respiratory illness. It doesn't cause much fever, but you get hoarse, have mucus in you lungs and it affects your respiration.

Most people in good health just dismiss it as a minor cough because it doesn't have dramatic effects--and I bet a trained athlete like Many would try to ignore it because of his competitive nature.

It takes several weeks to get over it.

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Yes, it saps your energy like crazy - almost like mono. I had it for three weeks.

So I can see how Manu could be off for a few games. The good thing is that it's an allness, not an injury. The dude will be back to 100% soon enough.

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Originally Posted by Kori Ellis

Slump and sickness, I think.

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Manu is always "sick, in my opinion. He makes sick plays.:toast

I don't know what it is, obviously, but Ginobili can't play like he was at the beginning of the season for extended periods of time, this shouldn't be news to anybody..

Last year, when he had his dominant stretch in the 2nd half, people seem to forget that he was very underwhelming in the 1st half of the year..his passing was still great, but he was having a lot of trouble finishing at the basket, similar to right now..

I do agree that he does look sick, but I really don't expect Manu to play at the level from the first 1/4 of the season, all year..hopefully he's playing like that in March and beyond, but as of right now, he'll have his struggles, and he needs more rest..hopefully Anderson returns soon..

There's no logical reason to think it's decline related. He was playing at a ridiculous level to start off the season. He didn't all of a sudden lose that in a couple of weeks. It's not minutes related, because his minutes have steadily gone down as the season has wore on and it's not injury related, because he hasn't had one.

It's a slump/sickness. He was due for a slump. Other than post broken nose in the playoffs last season, he basically played out of his mind the entire year calendar year of '10. At some point, he was going to tail off. Virtually everyone does, particularly players with his age and mileage.

I'm becoming gradually more annoyed with him by the game (just like I do when any player on the team's play steadily declines), but I'm not concerned to the point where I don't think he can replicate the play we saw out of him the vast majority of '10.

The Spurs are in a 1 game slump.

Harlem is right tbh.

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Originally Posted by Killakobe81

But sometime in games when Manu is the deciding factor late he makes those dumb plays ...in fact (though i dont see every game like i did when i lived in S.A.) ... his greatest blocks, steals or clutch drives usually comes after a dumb foul, forced pass or bad shot. He is just uber competitive and it happens. Just like laker fans hve to deal with kobe's double clutch over two people sometimes ...the great "shot makers" or even play-makers take tough shots or force those passes because they:

1. know they can hit them or make them
2. in the clutch you get very few wide open looks or passing lanes ...you have to "practice them" at times in games ...

Trust me I yell at the TV when Kobe does his forced crap too ...but overall i know it's the gift and the curse of most great players. Duncan doesnt do that but he is a anomaly the exception to the rule ...most great competitors force some of their will on agame even if they are cold ...because they never doubt they can catch fire ...

It's like when farve or manning forces a pass in football they do it because they believe they can get there before the DB and in a small window, and many times they do ...sometimes they fail.

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I congratulate you first of all, I'm shocked I've read this post from a Laker fan.

I would have to disagree with the bold, but that is just me. It's actually something that's frustrated me a lot the past 3 years or so, I actually think TD takes tons of forced shots, and the reason they seem forced is because of his sharp decline in athleticism. Even in 05 he wasn't really athletic, his youth in his legs left him way long ago, one of the earliest for a superstar that I can think of. A lot of times when he drives he doesn't have the quickness or leaping ability to be able to get off a clean shot, and the result is some tossed up, off balanced, falling down ugly ass shot..and it goes in a decent amount, but it looks terrible many of the times. He also takes some forced weird fadeaways from time to time too, but note: I've barely watched games this season as I only catch the national TV games, and there hasn't been too many so far this season...a lot are coming later in the season.

But yes, Manu definitely gets into chucking moods and it kills me when players fuck the offense like that, a la Kobe. Especially the 3s..it's great that he makes a good amount, but damn does he take a lot of them. I really hope he doesn't take more than 4 or 5 a game come playoff time, he better be driving that lane cus that's his bread and butter.

It's a slump, obviously.

Duncan doesn't get into "jack mode" like Manu or Kobe, but he definitely forces stupid shots..his shot selection is so annoying, especially the last few seasons, particularly during the regular season..

Manu's 3-point shooting is obviously annoying..when he actually sets his feet and gets a clean 3, he rarely misses..however, he loves taking off-balance, contested 3s, which become frustrating..

Manu is clearly on the decline. I told that to someone on this site before he went this far into this "slump". he relies on his jump shot too much and the reason he hasn't been able to hit much of anything the last ten games is because his legs are shot. He also can't get to the rim as he used to--you can tell quite easilly. he used to be able to get to the rim at will and finish better than anyone. best example his legs aren't there: he's been stuffed by the rim twice so far this season. it doesn't get any clearer than that.

he's such a good player though that he's still unbelievable. but yeah, his legs are gone. 1 month ago i was saying he was saving his legs for the playoffs (that was the reason he wasn't driving), but after seeing his shot not fall at a great % for quite a while now, that's indicative that he doesn't have the strength in his legs that he used to have. legs are the most important thing in a jumpshot, esp. for a guard--a guy like dirk will be able to shoot forever as he barely even gets off the floor.

slump.

defense is down too. i think.

playing like trash lately...

His three point shooting has been inconsistent lately. He needs to hit them on a regular basis so the defense closes out on him harder. When Manu is at his best is when his threes are going down around 40%, imo.

I thought his effort on defense was good so far... he's not having much success, but it's not for lack of trying. His offense is just not there right now.

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Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37

Duncan doesn't get into "jack mode" like Manu or Kobe, but he definitely forces stupid shots..his shot selection is so annoying, especially the last few seasons, particularly during the regular season..

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Yup, exactly. He won't get into a chucker mode like Manu or Kobe, but he can tend to take a good amount of stupid ass shots throughout a game, perhaps more spaced out and thus more disguised.

Last few games (excluding today), I think it was sickness + slump + recognizing that other players were stepping up and he didn't have to do to much for the Spurs to win. Manu does this shit every season and comes up big sometime around the ASB so I'm not worried.

Rondo can thank Manu for his stat line tonight. Getting cheap assists by passing to Allen/Pierce when they shook Manu off screens, and getting cheap steals by picking off horrible Manu passes.

Last couple of games, Manu looked to push the pace more and just seemed more energized on offense but having to work harder on the defensive end is starting to take it's toll. When you're are fighting it out with Paul Pierce and running around chasing Allen it wears you out.

James anderson should alleviate some of that defensive workload once in game shape.

I hope it's a slump besides fatigued which it looks like it he been shooting too many 3's at times, besides driving in on the pick n roll, and not getting the defense to committe to spread the floor.

pop went with tp at end of half tp got the basket
it was stupid to go to manu the end of the game

Meanwhile, out today.

Spurs Leader: Led by Manu Ginobili the San Antonio Spurs own the league's best record.

http://www.nba.com/spurs/video/2011/...nba/index.html

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Originally Posted by ducks

pop went with tp at end of half tp got the basket
it was stupid to go to manu the end of the game

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Because Manu has never been clutch.

Clutch three, clutch steal . . .

He played like shit through three Qs, though

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Originally Posted by Jason R

Because Manu has never been clutch.

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last week he has not been

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Originally Posted by ducks

pop went with tp at end of half tp got the basket
it was stupid to go to manu the end of the game

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Dude, the guy scored 20 points in the 4 quarter! it doesn't take a genius to think that you should put the ball in his hands at the end of the game. Your boy was completely MIA for most of the second half and by the way, the last basket of the first half was made by Hill.

Manu surprisingly in the second half of a back to back looked energized.

Great fourth quarter. Terrible first three, terrible overall night on defense.

If we're gonna lose the game anyways.
Should CIA Pop sit either Duncan or GNobili or both on b2bs?


He's won 4 titles you know.

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Originally Posted by Killakobe81

Man. when you 29-5 i guess you have to REALLY look for something to gripe about ...
even in this so called slump, manu has made plenty of "winning plays" in the clutch. Who cares if he goes 2-12 through 3 quarters if he has balls of steel in the 4th?
in fact despite this recent return to the "mean" ... shouldnt manu get some MVP consideration? not saying he should win, but if Miami had this record or the lakers Wade/Lebron or Kobe/Pau would be the favorites for the award ...

Not saying he can play the whole year at the level he was on but if he finishes strong and the winning % doesnt drop by much he has to be inthe top 3 for MVP at least if you use recent history for MVP as a criteria ...

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Bump.

This.

Manu almost won that game ...well that and some horrible final possesions by Boston ...

Manu suffering from PauGasolitis.

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Originally Posted by 21_Blessings

Manu suffering from PauGasolitis.

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you didnt like the 6 points our MVP this year scored?

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Originally Posted by smeagol

Clutch three, clutch steal . . .

He played like shit through three Qs, though

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+Clutch Rebound that gave the Spurs the last possession out of Ray's missed FT

20 pts in the four quarter for Manu?:downspin:

Manu was red hot at the end of game and the Spurs missed in their last 2 posesions before the Celts took a 105-96 lead.
Both Spurs turnovers (Jefferson - Hill) within 24 seconds posesions. Pop could have tried to give Manu those balls with time to work with either TP or TD instead of trying to get him to save him in the last ball, and he barely did.