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Pop needs to decide between Splitter or Bonner, Bonner has shown over the last couple of games he is absolutely worthless, he hasn't made threes and he cant rebound/defend. So pop should play Splitter more and Bonner I think is just a inconsistent he gets way too many minutes. TBH we have enough shooters we really don't need a big who can't rebound or defend. Give Splitter a chance & he can be really productive I'd bet.
what is it with these random gnsf...
Splitter being a year long project like RJ was, go with Bonner... yeesh I have a hard time saying that.
If you ever decide to put your money where your mouth is, I'll give you even odds that Splitter will never be productive, as long as you use the word "productive" to mean in an NBA basketball game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spurs da champs
i just wish Splitter can be as productive as he is in 2k11Quote:
Originally Posted by 4>0rings
If that's the case I'd rather just see Blair and McDyess play.Quote:
Originally Posted by 4>0rings
If we could convince the idiots in DC to give us Blatche for Splitter, it would be the best trade since Gasol to the Lakers. I could see that dude fitting into our system very quickly, and the Wiz are trying to deal him.
It's not Splitter vs Bonner. It's Splitter vs Blair. Because of Bonners skillset he will always get time in Pops system.
I mentioned this last season and I was given slack about it. His iq is a little low but he has game and with a bit of pops tuning he can be very useful and shore up the drive thru that is our interior defense. And he brings some offense also. If that option ever opens there would be no reason to not pull the trigger. But the wiz wont do it.Quote:
Originally Posted by awktalk
this...Bonner has played well this season in his role.Quote:
Originally Posted by L.I.T
But the wiz wont do it.[/QUOTE]
And after Blatche's little spat with McGee outside a DC club, I'm certain that Pop and RC wouldn't either.
Bonner can't play defense for SHIT!!!
Good thing the Spurs dont play that much defense this year then, since Bonners is going to get the minutes.
We really have only two solid bigs, Duncan and Dice. Bonner and Blair are inconsistent on o and terrible on d, and Pop won't develop Splitter. Come playoff time, you can imagine what will happen. Lets hope that our guard play is enough, lol.
seen this story before....great first round....then defensive weakness shows the second.......last two games from being eliminated, pop will throw splitter in to jolt the system and because bonner is chocking. in the end its just too late.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cessation
o and then bonner will get a raise come summer....cant forget that.
What do you think Pop is doing with him? Taigo talks every day about doing an insane amount of practices with the coaches trying to get him into the way the Spurs work. Just because Pop isn't going "Hey get in there and figure out one of the msot complicated systems in basketball today" doesn't mean he isn't being developed. Splitter is another RJ. Wont be ready until next year.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cessation
Splitter is not a rookie like Blair was last year, but it seems like Blair got more PT. Strange that Blair is doing better against the big lineups (Gasol/Bynum) and worse against the smaller, similar player (Davis). Can't expect the great game against LA to continue. They will adjust and not underestimate him next time.
This frontline is not going to cut it against the contenders. Look at BOS - missing KG and Perkins - and Davis abuses Bonner. Play Splitter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rmt
That was pretty much the only time Blair did well against a big lineup, props to him, but he usualy sucks or is mediocre at best otherwise. He usually does well against small/soft lineups.
How do you see that decision as not already made months ago? I think he's made that decision, and I'm sure it's not the one you wanted.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spurs da champs
Bonner is still the top 3 point shooter in the league, which gives him the same effective FG% as a big pounding in the paint without actually CLOGGING the paint. I REALLY don't understand the infatuation over Spitter, with what he's shown so far. He hasn't displayed any ability to defend the paint OR rebound OR score in any fashion that isn't off a pick and roll. He may develop at some point, but frankly Blair showed about 3X as much as a rookie.
Neither can Splitter.Quote:
Originally Posted by fraga
I've never been a Bonner fan, but you can say what you want about the guy, he gives us points when we cannot find them anywhere else. Against the Pacers, he broke that drought with a three. He's a liability on defense, but he rarely turns the ball over on offense. It looks like he's going to every time he touches it, and I don't like it that he always gets the ball at the top of the key because he just freezes there. If teams pressured him he might turn it over a lot more. He cannot get shots because teams know about him now. That's a good thing because it spreads the defense and opens the lane. When you have guys out there who don't shoot, and everyone knows it, your offense will suffer.
So, Matt on offense is ok, Matt on defense not so much. Splitter on offense, no way to tell. Splitter on defense, better than Matt on defense.
I would like to see Splitter be the minutes splitter between he and Bonner.
I don't know where you're seeing this "Splitter defense". He's a walking flop/blocking foul waiting to happen. He doesn't even challenge guards coming into the lane. I think the fact that he does nothing but stand his ground with his hands up is probably the biggest single factor in his lack of minutes.Quote:
Originally Posted by DMC
Context....Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckD
Read the OP again... Bonner/Splitter
Have a nice day
OK, I'll be a little clearer for you. I don't see him as any better than Bonner on D, if not worse. Is that enough context for you?Quote:
Originally Posted by DMC
Vegas odds: 6-1
:lolQuote:
Originally Posted by ChuckD
Let me know when you see him do something other than standing ON THE FLOOR with his hands up, even against guards. He's terribly soft on D, not ever challenging shots. He also doesn't have a clue about the circle, drawing a number of charges inside of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by MaNu4Tres
That's the only problem I have with him on defense other then that he's a great team defender. But like I said we already have enough shooters, Bonner should be cut or some shit that dude is bad, all he can do is shoot threes & he's not ever good at it.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckD
Like someone mentioned earlier, Pop deems Splitter is a longterm project. From the very limited minutes I've seen Splitter play this year, I've seen a few decent things, like nice footwork on defense, but I haven't seen anything from Splitter to warrant more minutes.
Well, when we get murdered in the paint come playoff time by Bynum, Gasol, KG, Perkins, Howard, etc while any player (even PGs) guards Bonner at the 3pt line and renders him completely useless, I hope Popovich doesn't regret not giving Splitter some PT to see what he's got.
I already know that Bonner chokes in the playoffs. Doesn't the saying go: Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Look at the Boston game - a big, important game with possible HCA implications - Bonner 30:17 mins - getting abused by Davis. Meanwhile, Dice with a smooth jumper just a few feet inside the 3pt line and much better defense gets only 14:53 mins.
Neal's gotten his chance and proved to be a big difference. Does it hurt to try Splitter - especially when he's the only one other than Duncan with size and length? C'mon, he's not a rookie out of high school/college.
...and people wonder why gray named posters get clowned.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spurs da champs
HE'S THE BEST FUCKING THREE POINT SHOOTER IN THE NBA.
Oh, and Splitter's an average team defender, at best. His rotations always seem late. If he were as good as you people make him out to be, he'd play 30 minutes with NO offense at all.
Apparantly it does.Quote:
Originally Posted by rmt
LMFAO look at numbers all the time they don't mean fucking shit, going by what your dumb ass is saying he's a better 3 point shooter then Ray Allen right?
Think b4 you write such a stupid ass thing.
This year, he is, and numbers are everything. Without numbers, you don't have percentages, which is how you judge a shooter's effectiveness.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spurs da champs
Are you all butthurt because he missed half of them? Think b4 you write such a stupid ass thing.
Hey I'm ChuckD, and I don't know shit. :toast
I've already proven that Splitter is a solid team defender, I gave stats that were given by Synergy Sports' scouting data..he's not a good post defender, but his rotations are very good, and he's a solid p&r defender..his defense is levels above Bonner and Blair, despite not having chemistry/knowing the system yet..
As for Bonner, he's obviously a great regular season 3-point shooter, that can't be denied..he's a proven choker in the playoffs though, obviously..I don't know if risking it in the playoffs again is worth it, we'll see what Pop does, I suspect he'll roll with Bonner again..
Blair/Bonner should be played based on certain scenarios/situations..
Bonner is the #2 3pt shooter in NBA. He's very good, but I think he's getting worse lately, like the Spurs.
Offense is not our problem, defense is.
I wish people would actually look at players based on both ends of the floor.
Isn't that self-contradictory?Quote:
Originally Posted by ElNono
There's a continuum/balance in basketball, so I'm puzzled and amused when I'm told it's all about X, as if that's the last word.
I would agree that our primary concern at the moment is defense -but it doesn't follow that there might not be concurrent problems with our offense, which IMO relies too much on outside shooting, doesn't have enough movement, and doesn't capitalize on potential mismatch advantages we might gain by giving Splitter a go.
What you've made abundantly clear is that you don't know shit about defense. School's still out on general basketball knowledge.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckD
Bonner is a better defender than Blair in pretty much all areas of defense other than maybe against bigger centers.. who Duncan and Dyess guard anyway.. and poking the ball away on entry passes/passing lanes... plus Blair has had one of the worst TS% for any player this season.. let alone his position. So he is pretty much out there for rebounding at this point.. similar to a Reggie Evans or a small version of Kris Humphries.
Can someone tell me how good Semih Erden is? I assume Splitter was more highly rated that Semih?
I'm just watching the Celtics Vs Bulls game now and he is getting regular playing time. I haven't watched a lot of their games, but he seems to get regular minutes.
How can Splitter not even get on the court?
He can't spread the court on the offensive end.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice009
But then Pop preaches defense> offense.
Sounds like someone is being very contradicting. *Cough Pop Cough*
Please state which game Splitter has played in (other than garbage minutes) that has resulted in a loss.Quote:
Originally Posted by jjktkk
I don't know about you but I'd prefer Ray Allen shooting a 3 in the playoffs over Bonner. I'd also prefer Derek Fisher or in the past - Horry or Bowen over Bonner because he chokes while they have heart. Heck, I'd even go with Duncan or Parker for a 3 in the playoffs instead of Bonner. But by all means, let's go by the almighty regular season 3pt % or +/- stat or whatever regular season stat that Matt Bonner is king of.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckD
You have to take into account the number of shots when looking at the %, if that number is low compared to other top 3 point shooters than it is hard to make any claims as to him being the best and if the player is unguarded like Bonner often is because he is not respected as a threat.Quote:
Originally Posted by rmt
Non sequitur.Quote:
Originally Posted by rmt
How many games did Ime play in other than garbage minutes that resulted in a loss?
Look at Tim, he played in every game and they have lost 6 times because of him (obviously, right?).
When you are 30-6, using win/loss to show effectiveness of an individual player (other than the big 3) is pointless. That record would show that everyone on the team is doing a great job. People here realize that already.
What he was saying, I think, was that Pop wasn't playing him, so obviously Pop thinks it's best for the team to not play him.
You cannot argue with shooting percentage.Quote:
I don't know about you but I'd prefer Ray Allen shooting a 3 in the playoffs over Bonner. I'd also prefer Derek Fisher or in the past - Horry or Bowen over Bonner because he chokes while they have heart. Heck, I'd even go with Duncan or Parker for a 3 in the playoffs instead of Bonner. But by all means, let's go by the almighty regular season 3pt % or +/- stat or whatever regular season stat that Matt Bonner is king of.
How about this: You are down two points, 2 seconds left and there's a 2 shot flagrant. Would you prefer a person with a 90% FT season average, or a "clutch" shooter with a 70% FT average?
If you think the numbers don't mean anything, why do you think anyone tracks them? Clutch is just a situational circumstance behind the shot. How many times has Bonner had the ball in tight situations and missed?
I would take Bonner shooting the 3 over anyone on the team, except maybe Neal.
this thread is funny
That's great that Bonner's leading the league in 3pt %, but he only averages 1.7 three pointers per game. Does that justify his 22 minutes per game?
He's also averaging 2.6 defensive rebounds per game (not going to bring up offensive rebounds since he's camped out at the 3pt line.) Gary Neal averages 2.4 defensive rebounds per game with 18 minutes per game.
I'm happy with the record, but I also know that we're a jump shooting team and in order for us to be a contender, our defense has to be much better. We need length and especially down low - Blair and Bonner are not going to cut it - although Blair does rebound from time to time at least.
Splitter has been unimpressive to say the least, but he is a legitimate big and has pretty good footwork - Pop has to figure out a way to get him involved and polish his game - quick. I don't see many other options of us finding a better big out there and we will not win a title with Bonner as our #2 big.
:lmaoQuote:
Originally Posted by ChuckD
Erden was nothing more than a role player for his Turkish side Fenerbahce. His last season in the Euroleague which was his most productive he had averages of 6 points and 5 rebounds and less than a block a game on 47% shooting in 20+ minutes. His PER was 10.5.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice009
Splitter's had averages of 14 points and around 5-6 rebounds routinely in around 25 minutes a game on 60% shooting. One Euroleague season he shot 66% from the field as the main option and even blocked 1.6 shots... his PER that season was 26.9.
Erden has been very impressive when called upon.. its amazing what a 7 footer with skills can do when your on the court with guys like Rondo, Pierce and Garnett... these guys make the game easy for everyone else. Thats also the reason Doc specifically starts Semih to make sure hes out there with the best guys who will make tihngs easy for him. This is what is amusing when people bash Splitter when he goes 0-2 in garbage time when playing with Chris Quinn and Ime Udoka. Especially since he has already had double digit scoring games when hes out there with Manu and TP. You put Erden on the court with guys like Nate Robinson and Marquis Daniels he probably wouldnt score a bucket all season... yet he looks like a legitimate NBA player when out there with the starters. Splitter is 10x the player Erden is.
And by the way... if Pop inherited that Celtics lineup with those injuries... i have a feeling you would have seen alot more of Big Baby-Garnett and Big Baby-Harangody then you would have seen lineups containing Erden. Doc Rivers values defense alot more than 2010 Popovich IMO unfortunately.... Doc knows what won him his ring.
No, it's not self-contradictory at all. And it does follow your balance conundrum.Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt Bringdown
We have a good share of players that are more than capable on the offensive end (including Bonner when he's hitting his shots), and not enough players that can play average defense. So we're unbalanced.
Bonner is the epitome of unbalanced production. He's a below average defender, consistently, and he can only make up for that deficiency on the offensive end (where his production is inconsistent).
But take a sample of this thread, and all you hear about Matty is his offensive production.
I personally wouldn't have a problem with Manu/Hill/Neal taking the 3 point shots that Matty takes, even if they would hit a few less, but playing an actual big that can play defense more minutes, and actually makes up the difference on that end. Maybe that guy is Dice. Maybe hand 10 mins to Splitter and see how it goes.
BTW, let me state that Matty is a hard working guy, and looks to be a great guy and teammate too. This has nothing to do with him personally. He is who he is, and we already have a large sample size of what he brings to the table, especially on the defensive end (which is where we need a lift now).
This is a good point tbh.. personally i dont get mad at Bonner anymore when he gets abused in the post or when he cant coral a rebound because he cant stretch his hands above his head.. or even when he misses an open 3 point shot in a close game. If he chokes in the playoffs this season i also wont really be that mad at him - because he is who he is.. a one trick pony who is inconsistent at that one trick. He tries his hardest.. and looks like he really cares. Thats all you can really ask.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElNono
ChuckD brought up percentages for Bonner to dispute the claim that he sucks at shooting 3s. He's leading the league in 3 point %. That's not sucking. Whether or not Pop should expect him to make a shot in the clutch is a different conversation. Obviously Bonner is not clutch but, again, that's a different point. I can tell if people are posting from their cell phone or are really just stupid.
Thats okay EricD, just read as many posts on here as you can, then maybe some day you can have some Spurs knowledge.Quote:
Originally Posted by EricD
This post makes me feel sick. To think that we're pondering the problem of the defense and some are thinking up trades while Splitter sits on the bench. Sometimes I think that Popovich deliberately benches players to humble them and make them buy into his system. Sometimes after Blair had a huge game as a rookie, Pop would hardly play him the next game.Quote:
Originally Posted by mystargtr34
I'd love to see some pick and roll with Manu/TP and Splitter if Popovich is so concerned about the offense. He needs to put his money where his mouth is about defense, look at the size and length of the front lines of the teams which have won over the past 12 years and give Splitter a chance.
Same Here!+1000000000000000000000000000000000000000Quote:
Originally Posted by rmt
I guess Pop is out there trying to be the first coach to win with the gimmick known as small ball. Maybe he has a bet with Nellie??? I don't know what think anymore????:depressed I seriously have stopped watching all games now because I don't see this Spurs team going far with Bonner or Blair manning the middle with Duncan. Duncan ya esta viejo!! Why does nobody see that?? It would be different if we had the spring chicken Tim Duncan from 2003, but we don't anymore. I will not watch anymore games until I see Splitter play with Duncan, TP, Manu, RJ, and Hill period!!! Enjoy your regular season wins Bonner aficionados.
:toastQuote:
Originally Posted by Ginobilly
:clapQuote:
Originally Posted by Ginobilly
:pop::pctoss
I'm sick of all the Bonner haters. He hasn't disappointed all season.
Well if Matt could actually play better D, then he'd be a lot better. As for Splitter, I hardly even see him play. Pop putting him in the damn doghouse.
we should reevaluate this debate when Pop plays Splitter 5mins during a game. then we'll truly be able to judge.
The Spurs are winning. So obviously Bonner playing minutes over Splitter is working. Jesus Christ this is worst than the Mahinmi bullshit.
Don't bring me into this. I'm on your side.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Gonzo