Obama mulls government internet ID for all Americans

Obama mulls government internet ID for all Americans

White House Cybersecurity Coordinator Howard Schmidt said Sunday that U.S. President Barack Obama is considering an internet ID for all Americans. The identity ecosystem would be handled by the Commerce Department.

By giving the authority to the Commerce Department, Washington would address privacy and civil liberties groups’ concern that if the internet ID system would push through, the agency that would have oversight should not play the dual role of police and intelligence agencies. That would make the Commerce Department a better choice over the National Security Agency and the Department of Homeland Security.

Commerce Secretary Gary Locke disclosed at a Sunday event at the Stanford Institute for Economic Policy Research that the White House is drafting a National Strategy for Trusted Identities in Cyberspace, slated for release in the next few months. Locke clarified the Internet ID system is not similar to a national ID card, but aims to eliminate the need to memorize several passwords for different Internet accounts by the creation and use of more trusted digital identities.

Locke said the department will soon establish a national program office to begin work on the project. He hinted that the planned Internet ID could be in the form of a smart card or digital certificate online users could use to identify themselves. It could also be used by consumers for online financial transactions.

However, Locke stressed Internet users could still remain anonymous or use pseudonyms and that the project would not result in the creation of a centralized database.

Jim Dempsey of the Center for Democracy and Technology said at the same event that any planned Internet ID system must be created by the public sector and it must be voluntary and competitive.

Completely unnecessary.

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However, Locke stressed Internet users could still remain anonymous or use pseudonyms and that the project would not result in the creation of a centralized database.

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...but it sure would make it easier to tax internet purchases....

They're actually optional. You can choose not to have one.

Unless you want to buy something I bet...

I don't think this is necessarily targeting fraud overall.
I mean, if somebody is using a credit card from a stolen wallet, odds are they have access to the ID card also.

This would come to make login into accounts more secure. People won't need to remember passwords or write them in post it notes taped to monitors for everyone to see.
It would also prevent phishing attacks looking for login credentials.

The government's concern over how many logins and passwords I'm forced to remember is moving, but nbadan is right, this is all about finding a way to tax internet transactions.

Don't buy for a second that this proposed program falling under the department of commerce is over alleged privacy concerns if it was the NSA or DHS in charge of it.

What is stopping them from taxing internet transactions now?

Something to do with the anonymity of online users and trying to determine what taxing jurisdictions they should be subject to IIRC.

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Originally Posted by coyotes_geek

Something to do with the anonymity of online users and trying to determine what taxing jurisdictions they should be subject to IIRC.

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Really?

How do states collect taxes on internet purchases then?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use_tax

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

Really?

How do states collect taxes on internet purchases then?

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No idea. Are they? I don't remember paying taxes on an internet purchase I've made.

I'm not clear about what problem this is supposed to solve. If optional, then how effective would it be against fraud, ID theft, etc?

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Originally Posted by coyotes_geek

No idea. Are they? I don't remember paying taxes on an internet purchase I've made.

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if you buy something from a seller in the same state where it is being delivered you should pay states sales tax....

Thought Obama was supposed to be the First Brother, not Big Brother.

I know this is going to make me sound like a total conservative but...

This is totally unnecessary. The internet is working fine right now, and vendors are finding ways to provide security when needed. I don't think that this ID would fix more problems than it could potentially cause.

And the chances of any sort of ID like this not becoming a PRIME piece of real estate for hackers is nil. What happens if you're identity gets hacked after this gets enabled?

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Originally Posted by LnGrrrR

I know this is going to make me sound like a total conservative but...

This is totally unnecessary. The internet is working fine right now, and vendors are finding ways to provide security when needed. I don't think that this ID would fix more problems than it could potentially cause.

And the chances of any sort of ID like this not becoming a PRIME piece of real estate for hackers is nil. What happens if you're identity gets hacked after this gets enabled?

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I hope he fails.

I thought conservatives wanted a national consumption tax.

I bet the banksters are behind this, because they/VISA apparently get burned badly with fraud.

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Originally Posted by Nbadan

if you buy something from a seller in the same state where it is being delivered you should pay states sales tax....

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Interesting. Didn't know that.

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Originally Posted by coyotes_geek

Interesting. Didn't know that.

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Most internet companies have software that calculates that based on shipping address. Maybe you don't buy much in-state.

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Originally Posted by Yonivore

Most internet companies have software that calculates that based on shipping address. Maybe you don't buy much in-state.

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That's the case. The Mrs. does most of the online shopping for the CG clan.

Back to topic, if the govt doesn't need this internet ID to impose taxes, then that's one more reason to ask what's the point of this whole thing?

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Originally Posted by LnGrrrR

I know this is going to make me sound like a total conservative but...

This is totally unnecessary. The internet is working fine right now, and vendors are finding ways to provide security when needed. I don't think that this ID would fix more problems than it could potentially cause.

And the chances of any sort of ID like this not becoming a PRIME piece of real estate for hackers is nil. What happens if you're identity gets hacked after this gets enabled?

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Agreed. If consumer security is the issue here, then wouldn't a variety of logins and passwords limit the risk as opposed to a single government ID that only needs to be hacked once to gain access to everything?

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Originally Posted by coyotes_geek

That's the case. The Mrs. does most of the online shopping for the CG clan.

Back to topic, if the govt doesn't need this internet ID to impose taxes, then that's one more reason to ask what's the point of this whole thing?

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The article gives some; of course the purported optional nature of the program makes the "gunna tax our internets" angle a bit of a tough sell.

..not if you need a tax number (ie ID number) to buy something...

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Originally Posted by Nbadan

..not if you need a tax number (ie ID number) to buy something...

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And your evidence of that is?

Perhaps you can show us the part of the draft that proposes this.

I'll wait.

And perhaps you could show me just what is preventing the feds from being able to do that now, just as states already do.

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

And your evidence of that is?

Perhaps you can show us the part of the draft that proposes this.

I'll wait.

And perhaps you could show me just what is preventing the feds from being able to do that now, just as states already do.

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Did you just get gassed by contrails or something?

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nd perhaps you could show me just what is preventing the feds from being able to do that now, just as states already do.

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the fact you can buy anything at any computer....it will be easy to convert your national ID number into a tax number to track your online purchases...

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Originally Posted by Nbadan

Did you just get gassed by contrails or something?

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That isn't an answer.

Still waiting.

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Originally Posted by Nbadan

the fact you can buy anything at any computer....it will be easy to convert your national ID number into a tax number to track your online purchases...

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That is also not an answer.

The states already have the capacity to easily charge and collect taxes internet transactions. Why do you think the feds can't do exactly the same thing right now?

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

That isn't an answer.

Still waiting.

That is also not an answer.

The states already have the capacity to easily charge and collect taxes internet transactions. Why do you think the feds can't do exactly the same thing right now?

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I don't think they do have the capacity to easily charge and collect taxes interest transactions. States have been battling with Amazon for a long time over this very issue.

http://econsultancy.com/us/blog/5771...se-tax-assault

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Originally Posted by BlairForceDejuan

I don't think they do have the capacity to easily charge and collect taxes interest transactions. States have been battling with Amazon for a long time over this very issue.

http://econsultancy.com/us/blog/5771...se-tax-assault

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Hey, that blog proves that states already easily charge and collect taxes from internet purchases from retailers with a physical presence in those states.

Thanks for showing it is already done without internets IDs. Your help is appreciated.

Chump is right. Some states already collect taxes on internet transactions, even if the billing address is out of state. Amazon got on a big spat with NY state because of this.

Purchases can also be easily tracked to your Debit/Credit card. Fraud on purchases is also already handled through retention laws for ISPs.

There's nothing preventing taxing internet transactions right now. Be it by the State or Federal government.

The other thing I read is that while the Department of Commerce would coordinate the effort, an actual private company would do the implementation. I'm personally wary of the effectiveness of systems like this because there's a good amount of weak points to attack this from. From the technological aspect (cloning would probably be the first target on that area), to the social engineering aspect (what safeguards will be in place to make sure you're not impersonating somebody else when you go get the card).

The goal as I understand it is to mitigate identity theft online. I'm always a skeptic on the implementation aspect of this stuff, because you really need a good technical know how, and that's normally overlooked. But I would need to see a bit more of the proposed implementation to make a good assessment.

I can buy a pc off dell.com and pay tax, or buy a dell pc off amazon and pay nothing; hypothetically.

I want to make clear that I'm not on board with this proposal's being a great idea -- but people seem to be getting worked up about the wrong thing here.

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Originally Posted by BlairForceDejuan

I can buy a pc off dell.com and pay tax, or buy a dell pc off amazon and pay nothing; hypothetically.

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Amazon had to stop shipping from NY state in order to avoid paying the tax. If more states start taxing, Amazon will have to budge. It's clear some companies will fight a tax like that, but that doesn't mean that States or the Federal government cannot tax the transactions if they want to.

If the federal government wants to do something with taxes, they do it? That's what I would assume.

For reference on this issue, you can look at the RFID tagged passports. Which have been broken and can be cloned.

I don't see this as a big deal as long as it's voluntary. If it would be mandated, then that would be a different story.

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Originally Posted by BlairForceDejuan

If the federal government wants to do something with taxes, they do it? That's what I would assume.

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States are no different really. They collect taxes on local business and citizens already.

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Originally Posted by BlairForceDejuan

If the federal government wants to do something with taxes, they do it? That's what I would assume.

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Exactly. They wouldn't need an internets ID.

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

Hey, that blog proves that states already easily charge and collect taxes from internet purchases from retailers with a physical presence in those states.

Thanks for showing it is already done without internets IDs. Your help is appreciated.

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lmao at this douchebag post.

Dan already stated the obvious about buying a product from a company located in the same state in which you are receiving the product. They have been doing this for years. The post of yours that I quoted said nothing about physical presence.

State taxes get collected..that's true....the fed wants its cut...

..there is software available today that will guard your internet transactions on most popular browsers
..there is software that will let you transmit said internet transactions securely

most of the fraud that occurs is when someone cracks into the company computers and gains bank and credit information from consumers.....

When I heard about this Internet ID last week, taxes did not even cross my mind. The FBI director coming out right after the recent shooting and specifically addressing online anonymity is closely related imo.

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Originally Posted by BlairForceDejuan

lmao at this douchebag post.

Dan already stated the obvious about buying a product from a company located in the same state in which you are receiving the product. They have been doing this for years. The post of yours that I quoted said nothing about physical presence.

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lmao at this douchebag post.

My post you quoted said states already easily charge and collect taxes on internets transactions. That is the only thing that needed to be said in regards to the argument that the feds somehow needed a national ID system to charge and collect taxes themselves.

Your post added nothing to that conversation, but your redassing at having that pointed out to you is entertaining.

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Originally Posted by Nbadan

State taxes get collected..that's true....the fed wants its cut...

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If it does, it doesn't need an ID system.

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Originally Posted by BlairForceDejuan

When I heard about this Internet ID last week, taxes did not even cross my mind. The FBI director coming out right after the recent shooting and specifically addressing online anonymity is closely related imo.

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If it is required to log on to SpursTalk, then I'll be scurred.

lmao at you being able to keep up this schtick for so many years

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Originally Posted by BlairForceDejuan

When I heard about this Internet ID last week, taxes did not even cross my mind. The FBI director coming out right after the recent shooting and specifically addressing online anonymity is closely related imo.

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Of course....Chumpy is Chumpy....he thinks that the govt is going to come out and tell him that this Internet ID is ultimately to tax his online transactions across interstate and intrastate lines...

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Originally Posted by Nbadan

Of course....Chumpy is Chumpy....he thinks that the govt is going to come out and tell him that this Internet ID is ultimately to tax his online transactions across interstate and intrastate lines...

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Again, why do they need an ID system when they could tax internets transactions right now just like states already do?

Please be specific.

Taxes are a non-issue. Every reputable US based online retailer already submits tax returns to the IRS. When the IRS decides it wants a cut of the top-line, they'll just do it. Online retailers will instantly adapt to pass along that cost (which is actually the real effect of sharing the cost).

If you are going for some conspiracy angle, go with the obvious "they'll know everything we're doing" take.

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Originally Posted by scott

Taxes are a non-issue. Every reputable US based online retailer already submits tax returns to the IRS. When the IRS decides it wants a cut of the top-line, they'll just do it. Online retails will instantly adapt to pass along that cost (which is actually the real effect of sharing the cost).

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No! They have to have national IDs for everyone first!

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Originally Posted by scott

Taxes are a non-issue. Every reputable US based online retailer already submits tax returns to the IRS. When the IRS decides it wants a cut of the top-line, they'll just do it. Online retailers will instantly adapt to pass along that cost (which is actually the real effect of sharing the cost).

If you are going for some conspiracy angle, go with the obvious "they'll know everything we're doing" take.

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Ultimately, there is no real need for an Internet ID....So why do it?

...millions of transactions are conducted everyday by private sellers and retailers...Scott knows that these private sellers aren't going to collect taxes and file paperwork for every e-bay transaction they make online...and with this new ID system, they won't have too...

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Originally Posted by Nbadan

Ultimately, there is no real need for an Internet ID....So why do it?

...millions of transactions are conducted everyday by private sellers and retailers...Scott knows that these private sellers aren't going to collect taxes and file paperwork for every e-bay transaction they make online...and with this new ID system, they won't have too...

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Wait -- you are saying the feds want to charge taxes on private eBay sales and are implementing a national ID system for that purpose?

:lol

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Originally Posted by Nbadan

Ultimately, there is no real need for an Internet ID....So why do it?

...millions of transactions are conducted everyday by private sellers and retailers...Scott knows that these private sellers aren't going to collect taxes and file paperwork for every e-bay transaction they make online...and with this new ID system, they won't have too...

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They'll need to change the tax code to do all this first. When that bill gets introduced, I'll get concerned.

Except for these "private sellers" who are actually commercial eBay sellers (businesses). Most have a FEID and file already, but I'm sure there is some tax evasion going on.

The Internet ID for all isn't a feasible solution to the problem though. So your argument that it is the intent is an argument that Obama is a complete moron, of WC type proportions.

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Originally Posted by scott

They'll need to change the tax code to do all this first. When that bill gets introduced, I'll get concerned.

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Why wait till then? Cut them off early like toll roads in San Antonio...

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Originally Posted by scott

Except for these "private sellers" who are actually commercial eBay sellers (businesses). Most have a FEID and file already, but I'm sure there is some tax evasion going on.

The Internet ID for all isn't a feasible solution to the problem though. So your argument that it is the intent is an argument that Obama is a complete moron, of WC type proportions.

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Most sellers on ebay...commercial sellers... don't charge you taxes on transactions unless you are in the state which they are selling from...

Conspiracy theory? Maybe, just saying...there is no need for a national Internet ID..

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

The article gives some; of course the purported optional nature of the program makes the "gunna tax our internets" angle a bit of a tough sell.

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A bit, but I wouldn't be surprised to see vendors start requiring said ID.

After all, look at the original purpose of the Social Security number, and how far it's grown in scope.

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

I want to make clear that I'm not on board with this proposal's being a great idea -- but people seem to be getting worked up about the wrong thing here.

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I don't think the issue is that the government needs this to collect taxes easier; I'm just against 1) the government implementing an ID, for fear that it will eventually become mandatory (I know, a slippery slope/gut feeling, but still it's there) and 2) placing all data in one place would lead to even more hacked accounts/identity theft.