Solitary confinement might also have to do with preventing that other prisoner kills him.
It's not the first time that a high profile prisoner is kept separated from the crowd.
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Solitary confinement might also have to do with preventing that other prisoner kills him.
It's not the first time that a high profile prisoner is kept separated from the crowd.
Tom Delay is probably asking for solitary confinement right now...
Is it irrelevant when you look at the greater cause which were his motivations...namely, the US breaking laws against its own citizens and protecting it under national security? are you a patriot in a Jeffersonian sort of way or not?Quote:
Originally Posted by ElNono
He also has had access to classified material and they're likely to want to keep that bottled up. Federal and Military employees with security clearances are not allowed to read classified material even if its already out.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElNono
...
And you are pro-treason.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nbadan
Do you stick up for the little faggot more because he is an enemy of America or because he shares your taste for cock?
Monty Python - The Spanish Inquisition
Chapman: Trouble at mill.
Carol Cleveland: Oh no - what kind of trouble?
Chapman: One on't cross beams gone owt askew on treddle.
Cleveland: Pardon?
Chapman: One on't cross beams gone owt askew on treddle.
Cleveland: I don't understand what you're saying.
Chapman: (slightly irritatedly and with exaggeratedly clear accent) One of the cross beams has gone out askew on the treddle.
Cleveland: Well what on earth does that mean?
Chapman: *I* don't know - Mr Wentworth just told me to come in here and say that there was trouble at the mill, that's all - I didn't expect a kind of Spanish Inquisition.
(JARRING CHORD)
(The door flies open and Cardinal Ximinez of Spain (Palin) enters, flanked by two junior cardinals. Cardinal Biggles (Jones) has goggles pushed over his forehead. Cardinal Fang (Gilliam) is just Cardinal Fang)
Ximinez: NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition! Our chief weapon is
suprise ... surprise and fear ... fear and surprise .... Our two weapons are fear and surprise ... and ruthless efficiency .... Our *three* weapons are fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency ... and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope. ... Our *four*...no ... *Amongst* our weapons .... Amongst our weaponry ... are such elements as fear, surprise .... I'll come in again.
(Exit and exeunt)
Chapman: I didn't expect a kind of Spanish Inquisition.
(JARRING CHORD)
(The cardinals burst in)
Ximinez: NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition! Amongst our weaponry are such diverse elements as: fear, surprise, ruthless efficiency, an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope, and nice red uniforms - Oh damn! (To Cardinal Biggles) I can't say it - you'll have to say it.
Biggles: What?
Ximinez: You'll have to say the bit about 'Our chief weapons are ...'
Biggles: (rather horrified): I couldn't do that ...
(Ximinez bundles the cardinals outside again)
Chapman: I didn't expect a kind of Spanish Inquisition.
(JARRING CHORD)
(The cardinals enter)
Biggles: Er .... Nobody ...um ....
Ximinez: Expects ...
Biggles: Expects ... Nobody expects the ... um ... the Spanish ... um ...
Ximinez: Inquisition.
Biggles: I know, I know! Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition. In fact, those who do expect -
Ximinez: Our chief weapons are ...
Biggles: Our chief weapons are ... um ... er ...
Ximinez: Surprise ...
Biggles: Surprise and --
Ximinez: Okay, stop. Stop. Stop there - stop there. Stop. Phew! Ah! ...our chief weapons are surprise ... blah blah blah. Cardinal, read the charges.
Fang: You are hereby charged that you did on diverse dates commit heresy against the Holy Church. 'My old man said follow the--'
Biggles: That's enough. (To Cleveland) Now, how do you plead?
Cleveland: We're innocent.
Ximinez: Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha!
(Superimposed caption: 'DIABOLICAL LAUGHTER')
Biggles: We'll soon change your mind about that!
(Superimposed caption: 'DIABOLICAL ACTING')
Ximinez: Fear, surprise, and a most ruthless-- (controls himself with a supreme effort) Ooooh! Now, Cardinal -- the rack!
(Biggles produces a plastic-coated dish-drying rack. Ximinez looks at it and clenches his teeth in an effort not to lose control. He hums heavily to cover his anger)
Ximinez: You .... Right! Tie her down.
(Fang and Biggles make a pathetic attempt to tie her on to the drying rack)
Ximinez: Right! How do you plead?
Cleveland: Innocent.
Ximinez: Ha! Right! Cardinal, give the rack (oh dear) give the rack a turn.
(Biggles stands their awkwardly and shrugs his shoulders)
Biggles: I ....
Ximinez: (gritting his teeth) I *know*, I know you can't. I didn't want to say anything. I just wanted to try and ignore your crass mistake.
Biggles: I ...
Ximinez: It makes it all seem so stupid.
Biggles: Shall I ...?
Ximinez: No, just pretend for God's sake. Ha! Ha! Ha!
(Biggles turns an imaginary handle on the side of the dish-rack) (Cut to them torturing a dear old lady, Marjorie Wilde).
Ximinez: Now, old woman -- you are accused of heresy on three counts -- heresy by thought, heresy by word, heresy by deed, and heresy by action -- *four* counts. Do you confess?
Wilde: I don't understand what I'm accused of.
Ximinez: Ha! Then we'll make you understand! Biggles! Fetch ... THE CUSHIONS!
(JARRING CHORD)
(Biggles holds out two ordinary modern household cushions)
Biggles: Here they are, lord.
Ximinez: Now, old lady -- you have one last chance. Confess the heinous sin of heresy, reject the works of the ungodly -- *two* last chances. And you shall be free -- *three* last chances. You have three last chances, the nature of which I have divulged in my previous utterance.
Wilde: I don't know what you're talking about.
Ximinez: Right! If that's the way you want it -- Cardinal! Poke her with the soft cushions!
(Biggles carries out this rather pathetic torture)
Ximinez: Confess! Confess! Confess!
Biggles: It doesn't seem to be hurting her, lord.
Ximinez: Have you got all the stuffing up one end?
Biggles: Yes, lord.
Ximinez: (angrily hurling away the cushions) Hm! She is made of harder stuff! Cardinal Fang! Fetch ... THE COMFY CHAIR!
(JARRING CHORD)
(Zoom into Fang's horrified face)
Fang: (terrified) The ... Comfy Chair?
(Biggles pushes in a comfy chair -- a really plush one)
Ximinez: So you think you are strong because you can survive the soft cushions. Well, we shall see. Biggles! Put her in the Comfy Chair!
(They roughly push her into the Comfy Chair)
Ximinez: (with a cruel leer) Now -- you will stay in the Comfy Chair until lunch time, with only a cup of coffee at eleven. (aside, to Biggles) Is that really all it is?
Biggles: Yes, lord.
Ximinez: I see. I suppose we make it worse by shouting a lot, do we? Confess, woman. Confess! Confess! Confess! Confess!
Biggles: I confess!
Ximinez: Not you!
How do you know what his motives were? That's why I don't claim to know, because I don't know. And it's irrelevant as far as the repercussions of his actions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nbadan
He knew the consequences of leaking material he had access to. He's not a civilian and he knew what the military law would subject him to. That's the bottom line. Is this the price he has to pay for trying to be Robin Hood? Maybe it is. He knew what he was getting into when he started doing it.
Technically true (as we don't have a need to know), but I don't think the government can punish soldiers/airman/seaman/marines for reading wikileaks on their off-time. Interesting question, though.Quote:
Originally Posted by MannyIsGod
(We've already been warned that looking at it from a gov computer is essentially a classified incident. The NYTimes are blocked from AF PC's for that reason.)
:rollin:rollinQuote:
Originally Posted by Nbadan
not only inaccurate, and asking to prove a series of negatives, it's plain laughably stupid.
Poor soul doesn't have a pillow for his traitorous head. :(
According to some reports, what Dan is saying is accurate. (FWIW, I don't think it amounts to torture)Quote:
Originally Posted by z0sa
http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/gl.../12/14/manningQuote:
From the beginning of his detention, Manning has been held in intensive solitary confinement. For 23 out of 24 hours every day -- for seven straight months and counting -- he sits completely alone in his cell. Even inside his cell, his activities are heavily restricted; he's barred even from exercising and is under constant surveillance to enforce those restrictions. For reasons that appear completely punitive, he's being denied many of the most basic attributes of civilized imprisonment, including even a pillow or sheets for his bed (he is not and never has been on suicide watch). For the one hour per day when he is freed from this isolation, he is barred from accessing any news or current events programs.
The punitive restrictions do seem a bit.. unnecessary? Not that I have any sympathy for the guy, but I just don't see the point in it. To break him down mentally? What's the use in that?
It's certainly not to the level of "torture", but it does strike me as arbitrary.
They sure as hell can if they find out. Are you allowed to open a document that has a clearance you're not allowed to view? I know for a fact that many federal employees I know with clearance have been told not to view those documents or face consequences if they find out.Quote:
Originally Posted by LnGrrrR
Greenwald suggests Manning is being squeezed to get his cooperation against Assange. I tend to think the treatment of Manning is more exemplary than contrived, but the two motives appear to dovetail.Quote:
Originally Posted by LnGrrrR
Is he charged?
Is he violent?
Is he non-cooperative?
Is he convicted?
Why not just label him a non-combattant, and shoot him, or send to Gitmo forever, no trial, no nothing?
Isolation is punishment/torture without trial and conviction
America is a depraved country.
lol if this was iran or china he'd be dog food by now
It's military detention. Not a civilian jail cell, one. So describing certain hardships expected of a soldier suspected of being a high-level traitor as torture is already an inaccuracy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Winehole23
Second, there's no report of sleep deprivation. Additionally, he's being given anti-depressants.
I was unaware that Manning is officially suspected of treason. Can you substantiate that, or is that just your private opinion?Quote:
Originally Posted by z0sa
You're playing a weak semantics game, WH. He may not be charged with treason at this time, but what he did is very treasonous in the eyes of most Americans.
WH, what you're doing is the equivalent of saying a murder who is only charged with manslaughter is somehow not a murder. In the legal sense you might be correct but thats about it.
What's so hard to understand When you join the military and sign your rights away, you sign your rights away
From that Salon article:
"Bradley Manning, the 22-year-old U.S. Army Private accused of ..."
Additionally, wikipedia:
He is undoubtedly suspected of treason and will be brought to a trial over it. The real question here is: have they detained him without plausible evidence? Not whether he's been tortured - he hasn't.Quote:
Bradley E. Manning (born December 17, 1987) is a United States Army soldier who was charged in July 2010 with the unauthorized disclosure of U.S. classified information. He is being held in solitary confinement at the Marine Corps Brig, Quantico, Virginia, and is expected to face a court-martial in the spring of 2011.[2]
Disclosure of classified information does not equal treason, and Manning is not guilty of treason just because a majority of Americans think it so.
I honestly don't know why he's been charged with unauthorized disclosure as opposed to treason but my first instinct is because the burden of proof for treason might involve active participation against the US government which would obviously be harder to prove than just emailing the documents to a media outlet such as wikileaks.
While there is obviously a difference there, the practical outcome is the same as selling those documents to a hostile government outright.
I agree. That said, I don't see any reports that his current detention violates any military code. The actions might be arbitrary or not. I don't know. But so far I haven't heard that any of those actions are actually unlawful.Quote:
Originally Posted by Winehole23