You failed to address what I think is the linchpin of the argument.
You're right, we have a great criminal process, tried and true. Unfortunately, many of these combatants were captured before anyone imagined they'd be subject to the same rules of evidence. I'm sure not much thought was given to preserving chains of evidence or mirandizing combatants in the heat of battle.
I agree. Definitely quite an oversight, wouldn't you say? :) Given its age, I don't think the Geneva conventions imagined a war in which thousands of people might be captured, that pled no loyalty or allegiance to any country.
We should probably get a new convention going. :lol
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Originally Posted by Yonivore
How do you go back and fix problems that would get an American criminal case thrown out on day 1?
Certainly, the issue is not black and white.
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Originally Posted by Yonivore
What if key witnesses were killed in battle?
A toughie. One would happen to think that, if witnesses were killed in battle, evidence might be able to be collected. That's no given in a warzone though. The soldiers arresting the person would likely have to be called in, and they might be away on another deployment.
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Originally Posted by Yonivore
Do you subpoena soldiers to testify? Bring them back from Afghanistan to sit on the stand?
A very thorny situation.
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Originally Posted by Yonivore
I'm sure there are a hundred other problems with trying to criminalize acts of war but, I'm tired.
I'm not saying it would be easy. But I think that what they've come up with, military tribunals where defendants can't choose their counsel and can't see the evidence against them, isn't up to the standards of what constitutes a fair trial. (And SCOTUS seems to agree.)
01-15-2011
LnGrrrR
Re: Obama's abandonment of the loony left is...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yonivore
I'm sure there are a hundred other problems with trying to criminalize acts of war but, I'm tired.
One last thing... what makes their attacks acts of war? That they're committing violence against soldiers in uniform?
I'm beginning to think that a war should be against a specific enemy, a conflict which can ended by either of the parties officially.
Otherwise, you get the open-ended war of Afghanistan, where we wouldn't take anyone's surrender as official and it can last as long as we wish it to.
01-15-2011
Yonivore
Re: Obama's abandonment of the loony left is...
Quote:
Originally Posted by LnGrrrR
I'm not saying it would be easy.
It would be a cluster fuck. And, an unnecessary one at that.
And, that's just the circus surrounding one detainee. What if the defense names foreign witnesses that must be found and transported? What if discovery compromises informants -- in other countries -- that do not enjoy the protections our criminal justice system gives endangered witnesses?
01-15-2011
Yonivore
Re: Obama's abandonment of the loony left is...
Quote:
Originally Posted by LnGrrrR
One last thing... what makes their attacks acts of war? That they're committing violence against soldiers in uniform?
I'm beginning to think that a war should be against a specific enemy, a conflict which can ended by either of the parties officially.
Otherwise, you get the open-ended war of Afghanistan, where we wouldn't take anyone's surrender as official and it can last as long as we wish it to.
Their motives are to undermine the State. That's an act of war.
01-15-2011
boutons_deux
Re: Obama's abandonment of the loony left is...
"Their motives are to undermine the State"
So America is now in the "international thought police" business?
Do they have the ability to "undermine the State"
America provoked its enemies by invading and occupying (indefinitely) Muslim countries for oil. That's "why they hate us".
And America is dumping $Bs into Pakistan which is protecting, supporting, financing, arming the Taleban to keep Afghanistan from being nothing but a disaster.
And now America is slaughtering 1000s of (Muslim) civilians, written off bureaucratically as collateral damage, provoking more enemies.
But let one nutcase kill one American, and America's "heart goes out", and a national (cable TV, ak, fake) catharsis.
America is fucking itself, and no one can stop America from fucking itself.
01-15-2011
ChumpDumper
Re: Obama's abandonment of the loony left is...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yonivore
It would be a cluster fuck. And, an unnecessary one at that.
And, that's just the circus surrounding one detainee. What if the defense names foreign witnesses that must be found and transported? What if discovery compromises informants -- in other countries -- that do not enjoy the protections our criminal justice system gives endangered witnesses?
Why do you hate the American system of justice, yoni?
And why do you pretend we haven't already tried and convicted terrorist suspects in federal court?
01-15-2011
LnGrrrR
Re: Obama's abandonment of the loony left is...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yonivore
Their motives are to undermine the State. That's an act of war.
How do you know this though? You're talking about a war-torn country. Do you think everyone that may fire on US soldiers is automatically a terrorist/trying to undermine the US?
