Can we get this guy back into the lineup?
What a freak this guy was. I remember him then, we took it for granted because there were so many great centers then, but what a guy like this would do for a team today is unbelievable.
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Can we get this guy back into the lineup?
What a freak this guy was. I remember him then, we took it for granted because there were so many great centers then, but what a guy like this would do for a team today is unbelievable.
what a player
So much better than Olajawon. Not even close.
It's a pity he played most of his career surrounded by scrubs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by itzsoweezee
-lol Benoit Benjamin
-Amar'e can only dream about doing those things.
-The only better defensive center was probably Bill Russell.
-Even as late as 2002, DRob was stlll a better defender than Tim.
How did Olajuwon get 2 DPOY's and D-Rob only 1?Quote:
Originally Posted by ShoogarBear
How did Ben Wallace get 4 and Tim Duncan get none?Quote:
Originally Posted by DeadlyDynasty
How did Mark Eaton and Marcus Camby get any?
Didn't Ben avg more blocks and rebounds in those years he won? and like Tim, he was his team's defensive anchor.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShoogarBear
I agree on Camby and Eaton, but comparing them to Olajuwon's successes is ignorant, tbh
One thing I always loved about some of Dave's dunks were their contradictions.
He'd put some flash on 'em -- a little windmill, a pump, a change of hands -- but as soon as he flushed it, the head went down and he looked as if he didn't want you to think we saw what we just witnessed. It was almost as if he was sneaking in a little fun in while trying to avoid being reprimanded by an officer or tying to show-off without showing anyone up. :lol
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeadlyDynasty
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeadlyDynasty
Olajuwon was way better than Robinson tbh. He's the second best player I've ever seen next to Jordan. Still he was way, way better than Kobe, so there's no need for laker fan to talk shit.
Dave always had that song going on in his head and you could see it in his movements after he dunked. I am not sure what the song was, surely a gospel one, but it was funky and he would not be able to hide it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackjack
Ah, so blocks + rebounds = DPOY? Got it. Ignore the fact the Duncan was a much better anchor as born out by team defensieQuote:
Originally Posted by DeadlyDynasty
It pales in comparison to the ignorance of comparing number of DPOY awards.Quote:
I agree on Camby and Eaton, but comparing them to Olajuwon's successes is ignorant, tbh
No, he wasn't, actually. I'd agree he had a more dominate peak but he was not a much better player than Robinson.
Had David Robinson been coached by this Gregg Popovich then, there's no way in hell people would have come to that conclusion. Bob Hill doesn't get nearly enough credit for the Houston series that has tainted the minds of many as to how Robinson and Olajuwon truly compared.
A damn shame that a young D-Rob was surrounded by guys like Vinny Del Negro and that the Spurs fumbled on Glen Rice...but prayers were answered with the arrival of Duncan.
The young NBA bigs today are nearly pathetic by comparison compared to D-Rob and his peers.
Who brought up Kobe? This was about Admiral vs. Dream, and furthermore...defensive big men
Not for a while. Hakeem was like a freaking 7' PG. He had moves and savvy that I have not seen before or since.Quote:
Originally Posted by itzsoweezee
Just a poor troll, the 2 to 1 comparison.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeadlyDynasty
That's all . . .
Nearly? Outside of Howard, who would be near the bottom among those giants like Ewing, Hakeem, David and Shaq (and Ralph Sampson), what center would even pose a challenge? Darko? Bogut? Hardly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cane
Are you that blind of a Spurs homer? The Dream averaged more rebounds, blocks, and steals than D-Rob. He has 2 DPOY's to D-Rob's 1.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShoogarBear
Do you have any empirical evidence to prove D-Rob was better?
Here come the Hollinger minions...:rollin
The point is its no shame to be worse than Olajuwon, Kobe's never been able to sniff his jock, but he's had a fine career nonetheless. Same for Robinson.
There are a number of greats that were held back by their draft team. KG comes to mind...Quote:
Originally Posted by Cane
lol people comparing Duncan's game to Kobe's game for no reason. That's like comparing Bill Russell to Jerry West...and you guys claim to be knowledgeable :lol
Not sure if I'm unable to comprehend the sarcasm or if you're answering someone else's question. :huhQuote:
Originally Posted by DMC
I provide statistical and visual evidence that Hakeem was better than David, and I get flamed. Don't get angry guys, Hakeem was just better. Life goes on.
Stay classy, Spurfan :toast
Yep, I thought I quoted Cane.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackjack
Fixed.
Off to watch the Ravens game, hope you guys gained a fresh perspective on the D-Rob-Hakeem matter :toast
No one did. I don't have a problem with anyone making the argument that Olajuwon deserves to rank above Robinson in the all-time hierarchy -- I believe he had the more dominant peak and deserves such respect. But the separation isn't nearly as great as it's been made out to be, largely on account of one playoff series -- one that wasn't decided by some one-on-one matchup played in a vacuum (see: Hill, Bob; Rodman, Dennis).Quote:
Originally Posted by DeadlyDynasty
olajuwon > drob
:lolQuote:
Originally Posted by DeadlyDynasty
Captain Pyrite declaring victory and taking his leave.
It's going to be tough to have a discussion with someone who understands the game so superficially as to think that defense = stats.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeadlyDynasty
I actually watched both of their entire careers, Robinson, despite inferior teammates, made his team better defensively. This doesn't take away from how good Olajuwon was.
Whoever that "Admiral" guy is reminds me of a black Tiago Splitter.Quote:
Originally Posted by DMC
You're pretty good about debating for a Laker fan, and I enjoy many of your posts but you get defensive too easily. You should let people that respond to you without debating with what they deserve: ignoring. Its always a shame when a debate turns into flaming and bashing.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeadlyDynasty
The problem is this discussion wasn't about the 95 series, or whether Drob > Olajuwon. There are legitimate reasons to say that at their most dominant, Olajuwon was better.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackjack
The original question was strictly on the basis of defense. On that, I still contend Robinson was better.
Did you know a black Tiago? If not, how can you be reminded of one?Quote:
Originally Posted by awktalk
That looks like a big green penis with legs in your avatar. Is that intentional?Quote:
Originally Posted by DeadlyDynasty
Tough call. I'd definitely agree what Robinson accomplished defensively -- what he made his team accomplish defensively as a direct result of -- was more impressive. It's hard for me to believe that anyone speculating on the subject without experiencing all or the vast majority of D-Rob's career (his supporting cast) can truly appreciate or comprehend how indispensable and valuable he was to his team.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShoogarBear
Olajuwon's agility on both ends was ridiculous. I think that's the only real area where I think he had an edge. He was just a more fluid and coordinated athlete -- not to say Dave was a slouch or anything, just a tribute to how gifted Olajuwon was in that respect. In some ways, it's a little like the TD-KG defensive comparison -- the versatility vis a vis a more prototypical defensive team anchor; Olajuwon was obviously a much better shot blocker than KG and Dave was a more versatile athlete than Tim being the main differences.
There's definitely an argument to be made for Dave. Like I said, tough call . . .
R.I.P. whottt. ... The debate doesn't seem the same without you.
Olajuwon was absolutely incredible, as was Mr.Robinson...two of the best to ever play the game. :toastQuote:
Originally Posted by DeadlyDynasty
Which is why input from Laker Fan who can't name a player before Kobe should be easily discounted.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackjack
Indeed.Quote:
R.I.P. whottt. ... The debate doesn't seem the same without you.
Dream>Robinson 1on1 most of the time, but look at the entire season Robinson would have had other centers he crushed that the dream didn't play so well on and the dream had centers he crushed that Robinson didn't play so well on.
There stats are so close you can't pick a winner.
Robinson had a better shooting % that's about it
Hakeem was one of the best post players ever. That was DROB's one weakness, lack of a true post up game.
Shocked to hear you say Wilt was a better defender than Russell. Disagree, Russell was a better defender than Chamberlain.Quote:
Originally Posted by Phila_Chamberlain
Nah, neither of them had any blocks... :)
How fun would young David Robinson going against Blake Griffin be to watch?
Jeez . . . that's pretty tough to quantify . . . all three of those guys were stupendous athletes for their size. Wilt and Dave almost freakishly so.Quote:
Originally Posted by Phila_Chamberlain
Dave against Howard. I would pay good money for that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cant_Be_Faded
Only thing I remember about that scrub was him getting his dick knocked in the dirt. I heard he was gay, too.
http://i857.photobucket.com/albums/a...va58/19773.jpg
http://i857.photobucket.com/albums/a...58/210irr9.jpg
That's actually unknowable since the NBA didn't keep that stat during their careers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Phila_Chamberlain
You're right...Laker basketball ceased to exist before Kobe Bryant. Sick burn, brah.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShoogarBear
To be precise, he didn't imply that Laker basketball didn't exist before Kobe, merely that you're ignorant of anything before KB's arrival in LA.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeadlyDynasty
It was probably Shaq's arrival, as prior to that Kobe was coming off the bench I do believe.
:lol BUMP you've infiltrated pretty deep into the main board this timeQuote:
Originally Posted by guitardude27
I'm flattered, tbh...usually Spurfan only dates Laker fandom back to 02/01/2008. He's behind the times with his bandwagon burns, tbh.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mel_13
I never claimed there was "great separation" between the 2. D-Rob was great, Hakeem was better.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackjack
"Well I don't have a problem with you believing that."Quote:
Originally Posted by DeadlyDynasty
I don't have a problem with people believing in an invisible man that watches over us...I just prefer to believe in what can be seen and proven.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackjack
Omnipotence has its benefits . . .Quote:
Originally Posted by DeadlyDynasty
touche, salesmanQuote:
Originally Posted by Blackjack
Omnipotence ain't a sell, my man. It's just how I roll.
So aside from their one head-to-head playoff series... which San Antonio was bound to lose on account of (as others have noted, Bob Hill's coaching, Dennis Rodman's mysterious urge to chuck several 3 pointers and failing to defend the perimeter - particularly one Robert Horry) lack of clutch 3pt shooting (No Mario Elie, Sam Cassell, Robert Horry, Clyde Drexeler, or Kenny Smith to speak of)...Quote:
Originally Posted by DeadlyDynasty
ah... but there is grand separation.
No head to head comparison of such large sample size has been more skewed by perception than that of Robinson vs. Hakeem.
42 Matchups.
30 Wins for Robinson's Spurs.
12 Wins for Olajuwon's Rockets.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/...1&p2=olajuha01
Interesting, but Olajuwon's stats were better in the head-to-head matchups. Now if you wanna say, "well, D-Rob's team won so that's all that matters," I'll be quick to remind you of the playoffs again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Phenomanul
As for the excuses in the 1995 WCF...sure, coaching and Rodman were factors, but Olajuwon's utter dominance in that series was the main reason San Antonio lost--to deny that would bring your credibility into question.
Hakeem's performance in the 1995 WCF is one of the all-time greatest performances in playoff history, and D-Rob was his primary defender for most of that.
Similar career stats (Dream's were a shade better for the most part), one MVP apiece, Dream with one more DPOY.
If you're going to blame outside factors like poor teammates on DRob's postseason failures, then you have to use the same logic in their regular season H2H matchups (especially since Hakeem's H2H's stats were better).
It's a two-way street, fellas.
Terry Cummings sighting!:wow Ahh the memories. I remember when I begged my grandad for a pair of $125 D-Rob sneakers and he bought them for me. I was only in the 7th grade too, lol.
David was my favorite Spur then but I have heard from several people over the years that he's an asshole.
Dave actually has better stats in the link provided, two less points but also took one less shot and was more efficient -- while his team dominated the matchup.
Hakeem was allowed to play one-on-one that series while the Rockets -- smartly and competently -- zoned up Robinson. Dave was playing in a straight jacket pretty much and having to worry about foul trouble, whereas Hakeem was allowed to go to work.
Bob Hill's dumb ass didn't understand that you actually had to make adjustments and that beating a team six or so times prior to a playoff (Spurs were like 6-1 or some shit in regular season and pre-season games played before the playoffs) didn't mean adjustments weren't there to be made; the incompetence was truly otherworldly . . .
Edit: My bad, made one less shot (1.8, to be exact). Took 6 less (14.3 to 20FGA).
Lol, you create a shit load of threads..four on the main page alone..
Anyways, damn good vid..im honored to have been able to watch Two of the top three spurs of all time, not to mention Parker is gonna retire as our best pg of all time, and manu aint too shabby himself.
Precisely. David wins the head to head career matchups by a ratio greater than 2:1.Quote:
Originally Posted by Phenomanul
Too much is made of that one series in '95. Overall, considering their entire careers and the fact that when they met they were the most dominating players on their respective teams, David won against Hakeem far more than he lost. Not even close.
I'm pretty sure Olojuwon destroyed Shaq in the very next round [without homecourt advantage no less], but that never stopped Laker fans from conveniently stepping over to the "other side of the street"... at least Robinson's Spurs managed to nab two games at Houston.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeadlyDynasty
But here's a little Basketball 101 lesson for you... The Spurs couldn't double Olojuwon because of the accuracy of the aforementioned 3pt bombers... David on the otherhand was constantly doubled... The Rockets gambled that Del Negro and the rest of the Spurs' perimeter players couldn't beat them... and they were right. The worse part was that Rudy T. kept feeding the ball to Hakeem and the Spurs coaching staff never made the necessary adjustment to keep their offense off balance. Despite Olojuwon's impressive numbers the swing games (and series deciding plays) were made by Elie, Cassell and Horry.
So while I'd never deny that Olojuwon's performance in that series was spectacular, the casual NBA fan has no other footing on which to claim that a vast separation between the two players exists (in Olojuwon's favor). And yet they and the media constantly undermine The Admiral.
Hakeem Olajuwon has better individual numbers and team numbers. FACT or FICTION?
You guys really need to shelve the excuses and just accept reality. Denial is not a healthy state of mind.
Well, this is probably futile against a guy who chose to be called Phila_Chamberlain, but here goes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Phila_Chamberlain
Nobody knows who blocked more shots. But what IS consistently validated by people who saw them play was that Russell blocked shots to keep in play to teammates, and Chamberlain blocked them into the seats. (In fact, this is the one thing that Duncan does probably better than Robinson.)
Chamberlain obviously was no slouch at defense. But, like with the way he blocked shots, Russell revolutionized the concepts of what a center is supposed to do on defense, and the way team defense is played. Chamberlain dominated the game, but Russell influenced it much more.
Unlike what you said, I don't think Russell was a better athlete than Robinson. (Chamberlain is a whole 'nother story, still probably the greatest athlete in team sports.) I think if Russell appeared today in his prime, he wouldn't be a top-tier center. But that's because a lot of the principles of center play are based on what he did.
but but but...Davey had nobody to play with :cry
Let's ignore the fact that every other team in the wide-open 90's western conference was able to make it to the finals. The Spurs were a consistent 55-win team, what's their excuse?
My goodness my jaw was on the floor through that entire video.
That must have been what 1991, 1992 or so?
Such athleticism, mobility, power. So humble after the fact.
I wish David Robinson could enter the league in 2011. Can you imagine the media storm that would envelop over his kind of dominance.
Damn the Spurs for not surround him with another superstar.
I can tell you that I never took D-Rob for granted. He was my favorite player. Probably the most athletic center to ever man the spot. He was already a superb defender and shotblocker when he entered the NBA. He made himself into an all-around player, rebounding and scoring machine.Quote:
Originally Posted by DMC
His exploits on both ends of the court were simply astounding. The stuff other centers simply would not or could not do. Amazing!
Duncan is certainly the greatest ever at his position. D-Rob was certainly one of the greatest at his - although he doesn't get near enough recognition.
Actually one I created some time back, I just don't start a new one any time I want to address that subject again.Quote:
Originally Posted by TwelveGs210
Also, if no one wants to respond, it will be pushed off the page shortly. Thanks for bumping this one though!
I'm beginning to think you're one of those old-timers, still pissed that Dave decided not to re-enter the draft -- likely finding his way to LA.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeadlyDynasty
I'd say he was quite a bit more successful with a supporting cast that rivaled the crews KG was getting pitied for the majority of his time in Minnesota. Difference is, Dave never had the type of media and fan backing of KG that excused or took pity on him for the team's he led -- because he was that damn good; he set a standard that expected greatness regardless of circumstance.
Remember those teams Kobe had in between Shaq and Gasol? Yeah. ... It matters.
Duncan <> Olajuwon > Robinson .. Slightly.. No shame to say that.
and Duncan >>> Garnett btw.
Plus Dave didn't cry about it (literally) like KG did. Poor millionaire basketball players... it's just not fair.
It does matter, but the Spurs were consistently winning 50+ games in the 90's against a Flavor-of-the-year conference. I don't think it's a lot to ask for them to make just one finals, or more than one WCF.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackjack
IIRC The D-Rob led Spurs lost around 4 playoff series where they had the HCA. If they were good enough to attain that record and secure HCA, then why didn't they win the series they were supposed to? He's a great player, and as the face of the franchise at the time he must share a large part of the responsibility for playoff failures.
Say what you will about the Lakers, but they rarely ever lose a series that they enter with HCA (the 2004 Finals is actually all I recall at the moment)
Newsflash: They won't be getting HCA in the WCF.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeadlyDynasty
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeadlyDynasty
Well, the Spurs have never lost a Finals...
so.... that and two bucks will get you a grande roast at Starbucks.
I'm not worried...2 of the last 4 series against the Spurs were sans HCA and LAL took care of business. The Spurs want no part of LAL in a best of 7Quote:
Originally Posted by Amuseddaysleeper
That I'll agree with.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeadlyDynasty
The Spurs would have to get by the Lakers to get there, and last I checked Pop is Phil's bitch.Quote:
Originally Posted by DMC
Not necessarily.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeadlyDynasty
Obviously you don't know much about the way the playoffs work.
Last I checked Lakers haven't won a series without HCA since '04...Quote:
Originally Posted by DeadlyDynasty
And bitch or not, Pop already left Phil, Kome and Fish crying...
Obviously you don't dwell in reality if you think another team is going to knock off the Lakers for you. But please, lend us your theories...Quote:
Originally Posted by DMC
Lakers prey on a handful of sub .500 teams at home and then come talking... how many teams over .500 have you guys beat this season?
Great, he's only 1-4 against Phil now...you wanna cookie?Quote:
Originally Posted by ElNono
Nope, I'll take the :lobt2:Quote:
Originally Posted by DeadlyDynasty
Probably none, and we both know it don't mean jackshit come playoff time. All flaws are exposed in the postseason.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElNono
Well I'm afraid you'll have to do without, again:(Quote:
Originally Posted by ElNono
Of course, regular season doesn't matter :rolleyesQuote:
Originally Posted by DeadlyDynasty
That's why the Lakeshow runs intensive practices and circle days in the calendar :lmao
Well, you state opinion as a matter-of-fact. I address it as such.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeadlyDynasty
I couldn't give two shits about your opinion on who's going to not beat the Lakers. It's no fucking shocker that a Flaker troll swears that no one will ever beat the Lakers. Offer something more substantial than your unhealthy infatuation with Kobe. You come across like a 12 year old infatuated girl on a Facebook site.
You ever see Dave bitch about his teammates or duck responsibility? Did you happen to see the press-conference after the loss to the Rockets?Quote:
Originally Posted by DeadlyDynasty
The Spurs were winning 50+ games because of Dave. Many of those teams had no business winning 50 games, and that's been said by some of his contemporaries (opposing players and coaches).
LA, Portland, Utah ... those were teams. They had depth and great coaching. You know full well how different regular-season and post-season success are. Usually once the Spurs got to the playoffs, teams would just load up on D-Rob and completely expose his supporting cast and coaching. Had Dave decided to re-enter the Draft -- something I'm sure most people would have decided to do given the options -- your Lakers may have very well prevented Jordan from that first 3-peat.
And let's get this straight, I've already told you I believe Hakeem deserves to be a little higher on the all-time pecking order than Dave. I'm not arguing anything with regards to that belief. But there's a lot of misperception with regards to the type of player Dave was -- how truly great he was -- on account of the Rockets series and all the highlights played since.
The guy played in San Antonio -- no one cared to set the record straight unless they were a Spurs or Robinson fan.
This is not Mavland. We have 4... including destroying the Lakers on two of those. We know what it takes.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeadlyDynasty
What do you have to offer but hope and prayer that someone else knocks LAL off? They're already the #2 seed in the WC after about 3 months of some of the most uninspired basketball you will ever watch. It's really not fair, tbh.Quote:
Originally Posted by DMC
If the regular season mattered then Robinson wouldn't have choked on Hakeem's cock in the 1995 WCF, no?Quote:
Originally Posted by ElNono