Gervin on Bruce, Foreigners, NBA Moms, and the League (from ESPN The Mag)

Ice Storm

Before TD, Pop and Manu, The Iceman defined the Spurs way. Now, George Gervin speaks up about his team and his game.

I came from Motown, but I found a home here in San Antonio. The Spurs have always been great about working in the community and have always brouhgt in guys with character. No one brings in more ex-players for functions or gives them more jobs in the organization.

These guys know doing something for someone else makes you feel good. That's why my favorite player is Bruce Bowen. He talks to ids about literacy. He went back to get his degree. He sets a positive example.

Bruce is one of the few guys on our team who isn't a foreigner, who gets a lot of playing time. I've got nothing against the foreign players - in the league or on our team - but they don't understand the history of America. I see the attraction for coaches: the foreign guys want to fit in, and you need to have guys that play their role. American players are just not as manageable. The need vision. bruce has it. He knows the history.

Go back to the 50s and 60s. A black guy had to go through hell to get a fair shake. And we've got this young fella in Indiana going into the stands over a cup of ice? That's where the league could better utilize the 50 greatest players. Running us around the country and calling us legends and giving guys a chance to hear the roar of the crowd again is nice, but I want more than that. I don't need anybody to tell me I'm one of the 50 greatest. Give us a shot at our young pros. What we went through can help them. If they don't want to listen, we can say to them, check my stats. You don't think I know something about this league?

Many young players will never see their potential. I see some of their mothers in the stands, wearing jerseys and bling and jumping up and down, and I think, we've got babies raising babies. My mom used to watch like a lady. Give your mom a nice life and everything she ever wanted, but keep her off the TV.

Yeah the league is at all-time highs in attendance and making money. How's the product? You hear a different clap now than when I played. You get the corporate clap, the polite golf clap. In HemisFair Arena, it got so loud, it was like an earthquake. We had the hardworking, 9-to-5 guys coming to forget about their day. Now you have to be with the right company to get a good seat. It's a place to talk business.

Don't get me wrong, I love the Spurs. I just love the game - and what it means - a bit more.

I didn't get his whole message... it was a little confusing for me, but that's just me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rick Von Braun

I didn't get his whole message... it was a little confusing for me, but that's just me.

---

Agreed, my first impression was that he didn't really think the foreigners appreciated/understood the history of America. But I still don't see a connection between American History and Basketball. Maybe its just me...

I got confused too...


I think he ment he liked the feeling of being in the NBA more than the Spurs???

I'm confused...nvm

He's saying the game has changed a lot. The way teams operate. It's not the same as when he was playing. The players nowadays care more about money and not about playing the game of basketball. That teams care more about making money than making it an entertaining show for everyone to enjoy and not giving the big companies the front row seats.

Awesome, I didn't think Ice had it in him to articulate the problems that are plaguing the league. And it's not the language, it's the message, it's from the heart, and he nails it from the perspective of a guy who had lost everything and only had the game to save him. Remember, Gervin got kicked off his college team in an era when HS players and guys who didn't graduate from college didn't make it into the pros. The NBA would never have taken him, but the ABA did and they took a lot of guys who the NBA shunned and they became stars, our own Silas was one of them.

I really agree with Ice on how he and a lot of the old stars should be used by the NBA. This is a great statement by one of the games better statesmen.

He's 1,000,000% right about the Corp & Golf clap these days. It's sad, but a very true statement.

I like his willingness to go out there & try to talk to todays young players.

So uh, Iceman, so your saying, that foreign players are bad????


BTW Ice, I dont think Ginobili came for a very rich background or others.


Really stupid backhanded comment at the foreign players on our team

TPark he's talking about how European Youth's usually have a scheduled course to succeed at whatever they seem best at. And if the kid is good at basketball they'll start sending him to different camps and have him play for teams at an early age. Usually a European kid will play Professional basketball around 16-18. So naturally they're more fundamentally sound and have a better feel for the game then the kids who wanna play ball back in the US who usually have a harder path. See; Bryant Kobe.

Quote:

---

he's talking about how European Youth's usually have a scheduled course to succeed at whatever they seem best at. And if the kid is good at basketball they'll start sending him to different camps and have him play for teams at an early age. Usually a European kid will play Professional basketball around 16-18. So naturally they're more fundamentally sound and have a better feel for the game then the kids who wanna play ball back in the US who usually have a harder path. See; Bryant Kobe.

---

So once again, why the hate on the euro kids.

Quote:

---

Bruce is one of the few guys on our team who isn't a foreigner, who gets a lot of playing time. I've got nothing against the foreign players - in the league or on our team - but they don't understand the history of America. I see the attraction for coaches: the foreign guys want to fit in, and you need to have guys that play their role. American players are just not as manageable. The need vision. bruce has it. He knows the history.

---

He's acutally complenting the foriegn players because they know how to play there role and understand some of the aspects of the game well than others.

ICE, you gotta double check because this paragraph is really really confusing. :lol

I do not understand one bit of this article, or what the fuck Iceman is trying to get at...I have no idea about what he is arguing, or what he wants to prove.

This is the weirdest thing Ive ever read in my life.


Obviously this is proof of how, drugs, can mess your brain up.

Spurminator, do you have a link for this article?

Reading this article requires thought. He has interesting points to make, and it's not painting things as good vs. evil.

He's saying even though the foreign players don't know NBA/US history, they fit in well, while a lot of US players who should know the history act like they don't.

Quote:

---

Spurminator, do you have a link for this article?

---

I typed it from a copy of ESPN The Magazine.

You should pick up a copy, Manu is on the cover, and there's a good Ric Bucher story on the Spurs team chemistry.

I think Ice is making the following (general) points. There are always exceptions, though:

1. Foriegn players are more coachable; they haven't been part of the AAU system that has helped to destroy the team-first game. Potentially good players in America grow up hearing how good they are and getting treated differently than everybody else. What you wind up with is prima donna players with fragile egos, a false sense of entitlement, little if any fundamentals, and a lack of appreciation for where they are. [How many American players could actually grow and flourish under Pop's intensity like Tony has?] Foriegn players, especially those coming out of Europe, have had to pay their dues. Nobody gets to the top league there without being able to play a team game and being fundamentally sound.

2. The greats of Gervin's generation could be better utilized by the NBA by giving them more of a mentoring role with today's players. If even one young player from each team embraces this mentoring and develops a long-term vision of where the game came from, who he is, and where he wants to go, think about how that would effect the league.

3. Bruce is the somewhat rare American player that doesn't need that mentoring - he understands what it means to be where he is and how far the sport and US Society over the last 50 years has come. [I'm not sure this is actually as rare as Ice thinks, but he'd know better than me - I'll take his word on it.] He understands that he has a responsibility to give something back for the next generation by example. More importantly though, he understands what a privelege it is to be where he is, and instead of being satisfied with making it, has worked his ass off to take advantage of the opportunity and be as successful as possible. That hard work is what has caused him to be embraced by the people in San Antonio.

4. In today's NBA, selling out an arena doesn't mean that a team has been embraced by a community. That only happens when the low and middle income folks that make up the vast majority of each city can identify with players and embrace the team. You can pipe in "de-fense" chants and extra noise, and get your $500 a seat ticket holders to put down their cell phones and clap. But you won't hear a crowd roar to life and sustain a team until they have invested some of themselves in the team. That doesn't happen unless there are players who mean something to them; that they can identify with, if not by background then by attitude, how they play the game and live their life, like Bruce.

White folk....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Spurminator

I typed it from a copy of ESPN The Magazine.

You should pick up a copy, Manu is on the cover, and there's a good Ric Bucher story on the Spurs team chemistry.

---

http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthre...ight=work+play

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mark in Austin

I think Ice is making the following (general) points. There are always exceptions, though:

1. Foriegn players are more coachable; they haven't been part of the AAU system that has helped to destroy the team-first game. Potentially good players in America grow up hearing how good they are and getting treated differently than everybody else. What you wind up with is prima donna players with fragile egos, a false sense of entitlement, little if any fundamentals, and a lack of appreciation for where they are. [How many American players could actually grow and flourish under Pop's intensity like Tony has?] Foriegn players, especially those coming out of Europe, have had to pay their dues. Nobody gets to the top league there without being able to play a team game and being fundamentally sound.

2. The greats of Gervin's generation could be better utilized by the NBA by giving them more of a mentoring role with today's players. If even one young player from each team embraces this mentoring and develops a long-term vision of where the game came from, who he is, and where he wants to go, think about how that would effect the league.

3. Bruce is the somewhat rare American player that doesn't need that mentoring - he understands what it means to be where he is and how far the sport and US Society over the last 50 years has come. [I'm not sure this is actually as rare as Ice thinks, but he'd know better than me - I'll take his word on it.] He understands that he has a responsibility to give something back for the next generation by example. More importantly though, he understands what a privelege it is to be where he is, and instead of being satisfied with making it, has worked his ass off to take advantage of the opportunity and be as successful as possible. That hard work is what has caused him to be embraced by the people in San Antonio.

4. In today's NBA, selling out an arena doesn't mean that a team has been embraced by a community. That only happens when the low and middle income folks that make up the vast majority of each city can identify with players and embrace the team. You can pipe in "de-fense" chants and extra noise, and get your $500 a seat ticket holders to put down their cell phones and clap. But you won't hear a crowd roar to life and sustain a team until they have invested some of themselves in the team. That doesn't happen unless there are players who mean something to them; that they can identify with, if not by background then by attitude, how they play the game and live their life, like Bruce.

---

Nice analysis MIA...now only if Ice could of made his point as well as you made it for him.

I love ICE, but I think he had a brainfart.

Even though I would agree to some statements ( NBa Moms, Kids etc),
I think that behind his comments about 50 years of history there is something:

"Let me talk with young black boys to explain how difficult was at that time, with white supremacists that would beat your a.. in a second etc, and how we survived and starred in such horrible enviroment, and we can show this to our gangsta youngsters etc.".

Look, I am not Black, not even American, but there is something I have clear in my mind.

1.- BASKETBALL IS ONLY A WONDERFUL FUCKING GAME. MAY BE IT CAN HELP PEOPLE TO LEAVE POVERTY AND SOCIALIZE POOR BOYS, BUT IT IS A GAME.2.- SO CONSIDERING THAT IS A GAME THE POLITICS, RACE, RELIGION ETC. are OUT AND THE BEST MAN PLAYS, WHITE, CHINESE, MONGOLIAN, ETC. PERIOD.

I don't think that ICE is racist or something, I think he good intentions, but he has a wrong approach.

gus

Making a confusing article and not expecting to be laugh at:
That really means he feels appreciated!

Mark in Austin: Great work! (but you forgot the point about NBA mums)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rick Von Braun

I didn't get his whole message... it was a little confusing for me, but that's just me.

---

My take: Gervin was saying that the young black guys aren't as grateful for the opportunity that the NBA gives them to escape from the racism in America. . They take for granted some of the community acceptance that the ABA & NBA superstars of the past won by good citizenship as well as talent. Maybe the ABA guys had to do more community stuff because they were selling a black man's game in cities that didn't have great basketball traditions like San Antonio, Dallas, Denver, etc.

No knock on Timmy, but I don't see him making the same contribution that DROB made and continues to make to the community. Not everyone can be like DROB or Bowen becuase of the differing personalities, but maybe the obligation of a giant superstar is more than simply being a wonderful player and gentleman off the court.

And the foreign players simply don't understand that past history because they stand outside it.

Quote:

---

Yeah the league is at all-time highs in attendance and making money. How's the product? You hear a different clap now than when I played. You get the corporate clap, the polite golf clap. In HemisFair Arena, it got so loud, it was like an earthquake. We had the hardworking, 9-to-5 guys coming to forget about their day. Now you have to be with the right company to get a good seat. It's a place to talk business.

---

preaching to the choir here....... I know some people who have great courtside or lower level tix fro mthier companys and could care freakin les about the game.. they use them to promote thier buisness or to schmooze... such bull crap.
Meanwhile I almost always end up sittign in the 200's cause I'd like to be able to afford 1. parking and 2. beer nad pizza after the game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by spurster

He's saying even though the foreign players don't know NBA/US history, they fit in well, while a lot of US players who should know the history act like they don't.

---

see when I read it thats what I got... I thought it was pretty obvious.

I'll try to explain why this article was confusing for me...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gervin

Ice Storm

Before TD, Pop and Manu, The Iceman defined the Spurs way. Now, George Gervin speaks up about his team and his game.

I came from Motown, but I found a home here in San Antonio. The Spurs have always been great about working in the community and have always brouhgt in guys with character. No one brings in more ex-players for functions or gives them more jobs in the organization.

---

He is praising the Spurs organization, their involvement with the community, and more importantly, the opportunity they give former players (read: old folks like Iceman) to be involved in the organization. So far, so good.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gervin

These guys know doing something for someone else makes you feel good. That's why my favorite player is Bruce Bowen. He talks to ids about literacy. He went back to get his degree. He sets a positive example.

---

Lots of other Spurs' players do the same thing (except for going back to school to get a degree), and AFAIK, they are very active with the community, including most of the foreign players in the team. Nice words for Bruce.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gervin

Bruce is one of the few guys on our team who isn't a foreigner, who gets a lot of playing time. I've got nothing against the foreign players - in the league or on our team - but they don't understand the history of America. I see the attraction for coaches: the foreign guys want to fit in, and you need to have guys that play their role. American players are just not as manageable. The need vision. bruce has it. He knows the history.

---

I am very confusing by this ambiguous statement. What does it mean? Are foreign players bad for the league then, because the don't know the history of America. Foreign players are more managable, but they are worst in the long run for America. We better take good old American players that know the history of the game.

Gervin suddenly jumped all over the place, and it is not clear what he actually meant with this.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gervin

Go back to the 50s and 60s. A black guy had to go through hell to get a fair shake. And we've got this young fella in Indiana going into the stands over a cup of ice?

---

Now, it is a race issue, because look at all the social struggles black players had to overcome over the last 50 years. Gervin is all over the place, and I still don't know where he is going. So far, I still don't see a clear thesis statement.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gervin

That's where the league could better utilize the 50 greatest players. Running us around the country and calling us legends and giving guys a chance to hear the roar of the crowd again is nice, but I want more than that. I don't need anybody to tell me I'm one of the 50 greatest. Give us a shot at our young pros. What we went through can help them. If they don't want to listen, we can say to them, check my stats. You don't think I know something about this league?

---

It almost seems that he is pissed off that he doesn't have a job as an advisor for young stars. Gervin, the reality is that if a star doesn't want your advice, he will not take it, wether you like it or not. These are professionals, and it is responsability of the teams that hire them to advice and guide them correctly. Those players are the teams' employees.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gervin

Many young players will never see their potential. I see some of their mothers in the stands, wearing jerseys and bling and jumping up and down, and I think, we've got babies raising babies. My mom used to watch like a lady. Give your mom a nice life and everything she ever wanted, but keep her off the TV.

---

While I agree 100% with what he is saying, this is a tautology. He is jumping all over the place, and I still don't know where he is going. Is he pissed off at the league for not giving him a more prominent role as an advisor to young talent? Is he upset that foreigners are getting a more prevalent role in the league? It is very confusing and he is mixing up a lot of things.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gervin

Yeah the league is at all-time highs in attendance and making money. How's the product? You hear a different clap now than when I played. You get the corporate clap, the polite golf clap. In HemisFair Arena, it got so loud, it was like an earthquake. We had the hardworking, 9-to-5 guys coming to forget about their day. Now you have to be with the right company to get a good seat. It's a place to talk business.

---

Once again, I agree 100%, but what is his point?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gervin

Don't get me wrong, I love the Spurs. I just love the game - and what it means - a bit more.

---

So now, it seems he is against the Spurs somehow. Hey, "I love the Spurs but I love the game more". WTF? Are the Spurs one the culprits of the things that are bad in basketball? What does he mean? May be the Spurs are guilty of hiring too many foreign players and not many good old young black Amercan players. Is that it?

I have a tremendous respect for the Iceman as a player, and I am pretty sure his intentions are good, but the above statements are still very confusing.