Our Frontline of the Future

Tiago at center, Blair at power forward....

Unless personnel changes occur, this is our frontline of the future!

Comments guys?

Personnel changes occurring.

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Originally Posted by Mel_13

Personnel changes occurring.

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Yeah, Tiago ain't much, and Blair's knees are grinding on each other as we speak. His career won't last long, which is why he dropped to #37.

Our frontline of the future is waiting to be acquired/drafted.

Possibly, but who is the SF?

Tyler Honeycutt of UCLA?

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Originally Posted by ChuckD

Yeah, Tiago ain't much, and Blair's knees are grinding on each other as we speak. His career won't last long, which is why he dropped to #37.

Our frontline of the future is waiting to be acquired/drafted.

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While Blair's knees are definitely a risk, there's no telling how long his career will last. The fear regarding it for most teams was more that they have no idea what will happen (it's basically unprecedented) as opposed to that they KNOW his career will be cut short.

It should be noted than John Elway played an entire career in a much rougher sport without an ACL in one knee - which never gave out on him.

We have to get Blake Griffin or sink to the lottery and hope lightning strikes a third time.

Ryan Richards! :)

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Originally Posted by guitardude27

Team: New York Knicks

:nope

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Team: dumbass

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Originally Posted by K-State Spur

While Blair's knees are definitely a risk, there's no telling how long his career will last. The fear regarding it for most teams was more that they have no idea what will happen (it's basically unprecedented) as opposed to that they KNOW his career will be cut short.

It should be noted than John Elway played an entire career in a much rougher sport without an ACL in one knee - which never gave out on him.

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John Elway was a QB. DB is an NBA PF, constantly pogo-ing up and down off the floor and running full out up and down the wooden court for 82 games a season. The Spurs themselves have been quoted as saying his career would be short. The lack of stability causes the knees to flex and wobble too much, wearing holes into the cartilage and causing the knees to go bone on bone at a very young age. What is happening to Brandon Roy right now is a picture of DeJuan's future: dual knee cartilage surgeries. Roy has a better prognosis, though, because his knees are structurally stable. Even if DeJuan gets his cartilage fixed, his unstable knees will continue to wear though it, causing further problems. He will probably require dual micro-fracture surgeries down the road on both knees, and I'm not sure anyone has had that and come back with a meaningful career.

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Originally Posted by guitardude27

I know you are.

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Yeah, your 15 ain't showin' at all, guitardouche

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Originally Posted by ChuckD

John Elway was a QB. DB is an NBA PF, constantly pogo-ing up and down off the floor and running full out up and down the wooden court for 82 games a season. The Spurs themselves have been quoted as saying his career would be short. The lack of stability causes the knees to flex and wobble too much, wearing holes into the cartilage and causing the knees to go bone on bone at a very young age. What is happening to Brandon Roy right now is a picture of DeJuan's future: dual knee cartilage surgeries. Roy has a better prognosis, though, because his knees are structurally stable. Even if DeJuan gets his cartilage fixed, his unstable knees will continue to wear though it, causing further problems. He will probably require dual micro-fracture surgeries down the road on both knees, and I'm not sure anyone has had that and come back with a meaningful career.

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This is the first time I am reading anyone explaining why the instability in Blair's knees would cause cartilage wear problems. I am not doubting you, and I am not trying to be lazy by asking you for some sources.

I keep up, and I have not seen anyone saying that yet. Ever.

I have read and heard interviews with people saying the lack of ACL's could cause a knee injury, but directly related to knee stability, such as knee sprains or tears, rather than cartilage damage. Further, I read in an article about ACL surgery that after such surgery, people are susceptible to early onset joint degeneration.

The following link indicates that cartilage damage after an ACL is usually actually caused by the initial trauma to the ACL that also damaged cartilage at the same time, resulting in (essentially) arthritis:
http://www.aaos.org/news/aaosnow/sep09/clinical3.asp

It looks like this website agrees with you, indicating that joint instability is one factor leading to arthritis:

http://www.caringmedical.com/symptom...ndition_id=427

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Originally Posted by spursfaninla

This is the first time I am reading anyone explaining why the instability in Blair's knees would cause cartilage wear problems. I am not doubting you, and I am not trying to be lazy by asking you for some sources.

I keep up, and I have not seen anyone saying that yet. Ever.

I have read and heard interviews with people saying the lack of ACL's could cause a knee injury, but directly related to knee stability, such as knee sprains or tears, rather than cartilage damage. Further, I read in an article about ACL surgery that after such surgery, people are susceptible to early onset joint degeneration.

The following link indicates that cartilage damage after an ACL is usually actually caused by the initial trauma to the ACL that also damaged cartilage at the same time, resulting in (essentially) arthritis:
http://www.aaos.org/news/aaosnow/sep09/clinical3.asp

It looks like this website agrees with you, indicating that joint instability is one factor leading to arthritis:

http://www.caringmedical.com/symptom...ndition_id=427

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I didn't come up with this, I read it in an interview, I think it was with RC Buford. I don't feel like looking it up, but you can if you're that interested.

let's focus on the now and not the then.

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Originally Posted by ChuckD

John Elway was a QB. DB is an NBA PF, constantly pogo-ing up and down off the floor and running full out up and down the wooden court for 82 games a season. The Spurs themselves have been quoted as saying his career would be short. The lack of stability causes the knees to flex and wobble too much, wearing holes into the cartilage and causing the knees to go bone on bone at a very young age. What is happening to Brandon Roy right now is a picture of DeJuan's future: dual knee cartilage surgeries. Roy has a better prognosis, though, because his knees are structurally stable. Even if DeJuan gets his cartilage fixed, his unstable knees will continue to wear though it, causing further problems. He will probably require dual micro-fracture surgeries down the road on both knees, and I'm not sure anyone has had that and come back with a meaningful career.

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You sound full of shit.

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Originally Posted by itzsoweezee

You sound full of shit.

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Thanks. Have a nice day.

Who knows with Splitter... I think he can adapt to the NBA and be a solid 13-8-1.5 guy in the future. He has the athleticism and height to make it, he just doesn't have any offense right now. He's been able to get away with that pussy hookshot in Europe, it's up to him whether or not he can develope a hookshot and maybe take his game out to 10 feet from the basket.

Dejuan...i don't think he'll be in the NBA for much longer. maybe he can play 2 more years. i think after that his knees give out like Brandon Roy's are right now.

The guy i'm like forward to seeing is Ryan Richards. From what i've seen, he has great handles--Lamar Odom esque--for a big. He just has game, and it looks like it comes naturally for him. You can't teach guys his size 6-11 to dribble and move the way he does. i think he's a great prospect and will be one of those guys that in the future will be seen as a huge steal.

a Splitter/Richards frontcourt doesn't sound too bad if everything pans out for them.

it'd be great if Dwight Howard would sign here nce he can opt out... pretty sure every team does though.

i really don't even want to think about a Spurs' frontcourt without the Big Fundamental though. it pains me to have to realize it's not too far off.

Once Duncan retires, we tank for a year and get another HOF big....problem?

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Originally Posted by mingus

a Splitter/Richards frontcourt doesn't sound too bad if everything pans out for them.

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A Love/Darko/Beasely frontcourt is leading the Wolves to the 14th place in the West and 28th in the NBA.

Just a bit of perspective.

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Originally Posted by ChuckD

John Elway was a QB. DB is an NBA PF, constantly pogo-ing up and down off the floor and running full out up and down the wooden court for 82 games a season. The Spurs themselves have been quoted as saying his career would be short. The lack of stability causes the knees to flex and wobble too much, wearing holes into the cartilage and causing the knees to go bone on bone at a very young age. What is happening to Brandon Roy right now is a picture of DeJuan's future: dual knee cartilage surgeries. Roy has a better prognosis, though, because his knees are structurally stable. Even if DeJuan gets his cartilage fixed, his unstable knees will continue to wear though it, causing further problems. He will probably require dual micro-fracture surgeries down the road on both knees, and I'm not sure anyone has had that and come back with a meaningful career.

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1) You're right in the Elway situation being some different variables - was mainly just using that as an example of an athlete who played on that and the knee didn't simply fall off at a given point in time. Blair certainly does more running and cutting. At the same time, the players defending him won't be diving at his knees (at least not most of the time) and attempt to bring him to the ground.

2) I'd love to see that Spurs quote - because I have never seen it and don't think it exists.

3) There are a lot of people throwing around the dreaded D word with Roy (as in degenerative) - which has not been labeled to Blair at this point in time. There are obviously structural issues, but the lack of ACLs are more likely to lead to future knee injuries as opposed to being an actual injury in and of themselves. Using Roy's actual knee issues at this point in time is a bit of a strawman.

Well, there's always Ian Mahin....wait.

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Originally Posted by K-State Spur

3) There are a lot of people throwing around the dreaded D word with Roy (as in degenerative) - which has not been labeled to Blair at this point in time. There are obviously structural issues, but the lack of ACLs are more likely to lead to future knee injuries as opposed to being an actual injury in and of themselves. Using Roy's actual knee issues at this point in time is a bit of a strawman.

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??? That's all I'm really saying: he will have problems down the road. The comparison to Roy was strictly that it will be both knees, not that they are in any way similar now. Roy is a signpost.

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Originally Posted by ChuckD

??? That's all I'm really saying: he will have problems down the road. The comparison to Roy was strictly that it will be both knees, not that they are in any way similar now. Roy is a signpost.

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But there still has to be an event to lead to the injury (as opposed to Roy where just regular wear and tear will likely be his undoing) - where the ACLs aren't there to protect him. You could argue that this is a likelihood in a contact sport like basketball - but not an assured occurrence.

But Portland used Roy too much (nearly 40 minutes per game)and it may be a factor. We're using Blair nearly 20 minutes per game and by a small calculation he can play double year of Roy(which means nearly 10 years)

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Originally Posted by tuncaboylu

But Portland used Roy too much (nearly 40 minutes per game)and it may be a factor. We're using Blair nearly 20 minutes per game and by a small calculation he can play double year of Roy(which means nearly 10 years)

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You also have to consider Blair weighs a lot more than Roy. More stress on his knees.

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Originally Posted by tuncaboylu

But Portland used Roy too much (nearly 40 minutes per game)and it may be a factor. We're using Blair nearly 20 minutes per game and by a small calculation he can play double year of Roy(which means nearly 10 years)

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The relationship is far from linear. You fail to take into account Blairs weight, style of play, etc., etc. It's multivariate with far too many unknowns.....hence the reason many FO's balked at taking him in the Top 10.

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Originally Posted by mingus

You also have to consider Blair weighs a lot more than Roy. More stress on his knees.

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Blair and Roy are different issues (beyond that they just both involve the same body part).

Just to address one point in this thread, Kenyon Martin successfully came back from microfracture on both knees.

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Originally Posted by ChuckD

John Elway was a QB. DB is an NBA PF, constantly pogo-ing up and down off the floor and running full out up and down the wooden court for 82 games a season. The Spurs themselves have been quoted as saying his career would be short. The lack of stability causes the knees to flex and wobble too much, wearing holes into the cartilage and causing the knees to go bone on bone at a very young age. What is happening to Brandon Roy right now is a picture of DeJuan's future: dual knee cartilage surgeries. Roy has a better prognosis, though, because his knees are structurally stable. Even if DeJuan gets his cartilage fixed, his unstable knees will continue to wear though it, causing further problems. He will probably require dual micro-fracture surgeries down the road on both knees, and I'm not sure anyone has had that and come back with a meaningful career.

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:sleep

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Originally Posted by tuncaboylu

But Portland used Roy too much (nearly 40 minutes per game)and it may be a factor. We're using Blair nearly 20 minutes per game and by a small calculation he can play double year of Roy(which means nearly 10 years)

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Originally Posted by mingus

You also have to consider Blair weighs a lot more than Roy. More stress on his knees.

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Portland also rushed Roy back from knee surgery and basically gambled away his health. I think their medical staff is suspect or maybe they're just cursed. Blair seems like a medical anomaly; hopefully further developing his jumper will be able to save some miles on those legs though.

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Originally Posted by Cane

Portland also rushed Roy back from knee surgery and basically gambled away his health. I think their medical staff is suspect or maybe they're just cursed. Blair seems like a medical anomaly; hopefully further developing his jumper will be able to save some miles on those legs though.

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Portland's problem isn't their medical staff, it was their former front office, headed by Pritchard. Oden, Roy, and former Blazer Jerryd Bayless all had medical red flags for knee issues, but were picked in draft slots as if they didn't. Each one is now dealing with knee problems.

What about Ryan Richards and and that Cousins guy in the D-League. :)

Splitter has the potential to be a solid second big and Blair a quality third big (maybe even a solid second big). If they're lucky, Richards turns into a capable fourth big.

The problem, obviously, is going to be finding a first big. I'm not talking about a Duncan replacement, because that's obviously not realistic. They're not getting an all-time great and they're more than likely not even getting a guy like Horford or Bogut, who are both All-Star caliber, but far from Hall-of-Famers. The best that can be hoped for is probably Nene or someone of that ilk. Nene can be a first big, but he's really more of a second big and is a cut below All-Star caliber.

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Originally Posted by ChuckD

Portland's problem isn't their medical staff, it was their former front office, headed by Pritchard. Oden, Roy, and former Blazer Jerryd Bayless all had medical red flags for knee issues, but were picked in draft slots as if they didn't. Each one is now dealing with knee problems.

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In fairness, especially with regards to Roy, I'm not sure you can call that a "problem."

Roy was drafted with the 6th overall pick. Even if he's toast from this point forward (which remains to be seen), the 5 years they got out of him were better than the full careers out of most players in the 2006 draft. Only Rondo (#21) and maybe Rudy Gay will have greater overall franchise impacts when it's all said and done. But, I think they'd make that pick 10 times out of 10 even knowing what they do now.

There are a lot of reasons that Durant would have been a better pick than Oden, with potential knee injury (he had never missed so much as an AAU game due to knees prior to being drafted) only one factor.

Ryan Richards has been mentioned a few times in this thread--anyone know how he's doing or what his status is at the moment? I know he had to have some form of shoulder surgery which was gonna keep him out for a while--anything change on that front?