...in any way responsible for the shootings in Tucson last Saturday?
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...in any way responsible for the shootings in Tucson last Saturday?
welcome to the butthurt thread
Define "play a role."
I can see how some right wing rhetoric may have influenced his world view, just as left wing rhetoric and whatever-the-hell-Alex-Jones-et.-al.-are rhetoric may have influenced it.
"Responsible" is a whole different kettle of fish. That douchebag is responsible for his actions.
Why limit it to right-wing?
The poll question is both meaningless and impossible to answer.
Because that was the charge being leveled by Krugman, Dupnik, Matthews, et. al.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElNono
But you and others are charging that he is left wing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yonivore
How so? Either you believe right-wing rhetoric incited the violence, you don't, or you don't know. Seems all possible answers are available.Quote:
Originally Posted by CuckingFunt
You demanded certitude.
How are you so sure?
can't say for sure, but assigning some responsibillity to the right-wing violent speech, hate media, and slander of Barry, is more reasonable than the shit the right-wing "victims" throw and non-right-wingers.
right-wingers are niot man enough, typically "skirting" all repsonsiblity for anything the fuck up, to admit they, overwhelmingly, poisoned social/religious/political dialog these past 30 years.
Short answer yes with an if, long answer no with a but...
I don't think it can be known, which isn't a possibility reflected in any of your poll options.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yonivore
Nor do any provide for the opinion that Loughner's actions may have been in some way related to the long term degeneration of civil discourse in favor of reducing all disagreements to either/or binaries -- yes/no, right/wrong, evil/virtuous, them/us, etc. (kind of like how this poll attempts to reduce a complicated and nuanced set of circumstances to positions of blame, no blame, or ignorance) -- without having been directly influenced by any one rhetorical moment or device.
Refreshing to see you didn't refute the meaningless part, though.
here ya go, Yoni, here's Your People
13% of Tea Partiers Say Violence Against Government Is Justified
Public Policy Polling for Daily Kos. 1/14-16. Registered voters. MoE 3.1% (No trend lines)
Do you think violence against the current American government is justified or not?
Justified Not Justified
All 6 82
Tea Party 13 75
Non Tea Party 4 86
That's 13 percent of teabaggers who are this close to becoming domestic terrorists. It's a frightening figure, and one that portends more violence ahead unless the Right puts a brake on its violent rhetoric and paranoid conspiracy theories.
===========
This kind of paranoia used to fringe, like 1.3% not 13%. Now the VRWC/Repugs/conservatives have pushed paranoia into the mainstream. Thanks a lot, motherfuckers.
More of Yoni's People
Right-Wing Terrorism: Murders Grow on the Far Right
The landscape of America is littered with bodies.
They’ve been gunned down in Tucson, shot to death at the Pentagon, and blown away at the Holocaust Museum, as well as in Wichita, Knoxville, Pittsburgh, Brockton, and Okaloosa County, Florida.
Total body count for these incidents: 19 dead, 26 wounded.
Not much, you might say, when taken in the context of about 30,000 gun-related deaths annually nationwide. As it happens, though, these murders over the past couple of years have some common threads. All involved white gunmen with ties to racist or right-wing groups or who harbored deep suspicions of “the government.” Many involved the killing of police officers.
http://www.alternet.org/module/printversion/149551
I think it's knowable and so, my poll reflects all the answers I think possible. Seems like you should answer "I don't know." But, that's up to you.Quote:
Originally Posted by CuckingFunt
Tea Party members score only 7 points higher than the general population with a MOE of 3%.:lmao:lmaoQuote:
Originally Posted by boutons_deux
I don't think that spin is working out quite like you might want it to.
^^^^^This^^^^^ +10Quote:
Originally Posted by CuckingFunt
Forgive me for not trusting a DailyKos, "State of the Nation" poll.Quote:
Originally Posted by TeyshaBlue
Then, it seems your answer to the question, "Was Right-Wing Political Rhetoric in any way responsible for the shootings in Tucson last Saturday?" would be "Yes."Quote:
Originally Posted by TeyshaBlue
No, I don't think it can be answered yes or no with any accuracy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yonivore
CF was suggesting everything's overdetermined. That's not the same as blaming it all on the right-wing.
There are those of us who think this specific question can be answered yes or no. For those of you who can't, there's the "I don't know" option.Quote:
Originally Posted by TeyshaBlue
But I do know. I know that the question cannot be answered yes or no with any accuracy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yonivore
If you had included "I can't know", then you might have something.
See, you don't know that. It is knowable. Loughner is alive and in custody.Quote:
Originally Posted by TeyshaBlue
Do your own poll, I think it's something that knowable and, therefore, an "I can't know" isn't appropriate.Quote:
Originally Posted by TeyshaBlue
You can argue over the construct of my poll all day, but, in the end, I think the allowed answers cover all options. If you don't, don't participate. It's a free country.
We'll see just how "knowable" it really is. You're assuming that Loughner has a reason predicated upon a rational thought process.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yonivore
I have no desire to create a poll that accomplishes nothing.:sleep
I'll leave that to The Daily Kos.
BTW, the poll question "Did Right-Wing Political Rhetoric Play a role in the Tucson Shooting?" carries the implicit premise that in order to answer the poll, we should already know the answer. This is KOS quality polling, Yoni.:lol
I'm not a professional pollster. But, I think you can form an opinion on the answer by now. And, if you can't, the "I don't know" answer is there for you to use.Quote:
Originally Posted by TeyshaBlue
Would you have felt better if I had prefaced the question with, "In your opinion," or "Do you believe,?" I thought that was implied but, if not, I'm now stating it explicitly. I was asking those polled what they believed to be true.
You're getting pretty pedantic over a meaningless poll on a meaningless forum.
Hey, why not start a thread on Yonivore's certitude on the Tucson massacre. Because, in my opinion, I don't believe any political rhetoric played a role in the massacre. None.
Further, I think the left pushed that narrative because they wanted a dialogue to get started on how to shut up the right because they can't answer any of the points being made in opposition to most of the Obama agenda.
No, I'm assuming whatever Loughner's rationale it won't end up being predicated on any vitriolic, partisan, rancor from any mainstream political group.Quote:
Originally Posted by TeyshaBlue
No, you'd obviously rather spend your time in a meaningless argument, over a "poll that accomplishes nothing."Quote:
Originally Posted by TeyshaBlue
An even more noble endeavor.
I don't know if I would've felt better (?), but it would've been a much clearer poll question if you had done that....that's the funny thing about poll questions...they are meant to be taken literally.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yonivore
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yonivore
Based on my post, you suggest "I don't know" would be the appropriate answer for my position.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yonivore
Based on agreeing with my post, you suggest "yes" would be Teysha's appropriate answer.
That alone speaks volumes of the clarity and accuracy of your own poll.
Oh well, don't answer the poll. Considering the number of responses, people disagree.Quote:
Originally Posted by CuckingFunt
I don't know.
Intellectually dishonest Right-Wing hate rhetoric is obscene though. And helps nothing. And coming from public right-wing political figures, is absolutely overwhelming in volume and vitriol compared to what you hear from comparable figures on the left.
I notice you lost the crosshairs in your sig. Whatever caused you to do that?
You've obviously never seen Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, or Chuck Shumer take control of a microphone.Quote:
Originally Posted by balli
First of all, I reject the claim there are leaders in the Republican party that have come even close to some of the hate-filled rhetoric spewed by just those three Democrat leaders. But, if you want to get down to the rank and file Democrat, there are hours of footage and gigabytes of images displaying the absolute depravity of left-thinking hate-mongers.
President Bush didn't go anywhere that you didn't see posters calling for his death, assassination, murder or where he wasn't hung or burned in effigy.
And, that doesn't even touch on the "Nazi" issue. Bushitler was a common epithet for the 8 years of the Bush presidency.
Let's compare, balli. You first. Show me where a leading Republican suggested Obama should be killed.
Hey, yoni found something else he sucks at.
"I reject the claim there are leaders in the Republican party that have come even close to some of the hate-filled rhetoric spewed by just those three Democrat leaders."
YOU LIE
"President Bush didn't go anywhere that you didn't see posters calling for his death, assassination, murder or where he wasn't hung or burned in effigy"
He's a war criminal, he lied the US into a bogus war resulting in 100s of 1000s of deaths.
Well... I created that during the course of the 2010 congressional campaign. Parodying the crosshairs graphic that one Sarah Palin, quite seriously, unleashed unto her rabid base of idiots. I did so (create it) because at the time I was appalled and worried about such imagery entering into our public discourse, from the mouthpiece of a sadly influential political persona. And because I thought it served as a satirical recrimination of such. Which is why I had it in my signature for nearly a month of the previous year. Upon one of the targeted representatives actually being gunned down, I felt it doubly served as a reminder of exactly how dangerous is the vitriol and hate-filled Sarah Palin.Quote:
Originally Posted by Winehole23
Due to The President's call for greater civility in our discourse with one another, I removed the parody/graphic, turned the other cheek if you will.Quote:
Whatever caused you to do that?
My private views on the matter still stand.
Problem?
Poll: How long will right wing loyalists bitch about the insinuation that they had anything to do with the AZ shootings?
a) 1 year
b) 5 years
c) Forever
d) All of the above, also, much longer than the insinuation ever existed that they had anything to do with the shootings
Yonivore doth protest way too fucking much, tbh.
You say nothing and it gets taken as agreement; you say something and your complaining too much.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spurminator
Bah, I haven't come close to setting the record straight on this as many time as the left has claimed right-wing rhetoric was a factor.
The left doth lie too fucking much.
How can you set the record straight when you don't know anything?
You're still using McCartney as an avatar.:ihitQuote:
Originally Posted by balli
:lol
:lol, but it's Dusty Hoffman. :tuQuote:
Originally Posted by TeyshaBlue
WTF???? I need new glasses.:lolQuote:
Originally Posted by balli