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Listening to the assigned Foxsports Southwest Dallas analysts crew...jeesh it's quite depressing. Nothing like what our analysts sound like when the Spurs lose. The mavs just lost to the low Pistons on this fine Mlk day and here we have a Mav's analyst saying "I have a dream". Pretty sad Mav fans.
I was hoping they'd be able to beat the Lakers on Wednesday. Guess not.
they've lost 8 out of the last 10 games... what do you expect?
the Spurs' analysts would sound just as depressed if we lost Duncan for 9 games, and Hill for the season.
:rolleyes
Everyone gets up for the lakers...im sure the Mavs will give a better effort than what they gave tonight. Also the Mavs are on a 4 game losing streak..this could add to the fire. Either way this game is a win-win situation for us Spurs fans
6 game losing streak.Quote:
Originally Posted by edgar
Ouch.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mel_13
you know... i'm actually going to be cheering for the Mavs on Wednesday vs the Lakers.
They are dropping faster than duck's panties at the Saint.
I'm not ruling it out. Lakers have shown a real knack for losing to mediocre teams this season.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mel_13
i almost feel bad for them....almost
just means that a Mav trade is imminent. i still expect them to finish top 3 in the west.
outside of SA/Lakers, the WC is absolutely mediocre right now.
Can't blame them after a 24-5 start and beating pretty much every good team in the NBA (other than the Lakers)...to get hit with a deluge of injuries like that is like a kick in the nuts
How about this incredible trade...Spurs send Richard Jefferson to the Mavs and Mavs send us Tyson Chandler. Richard gets back with Jason Kidd and we see the rebirth of J.kidd and Rj while the Spurs get their defensive prescence.
fuck yeah! fuck the mavs!
Uh, Dirk is back. He got thrown out of his first game, but he played this entire one.Quote:
Originally Posted by honestfool84
Quote:
Originally Posted by koriwhat
Go Spurs
:flag:
:elephant
Duncan = defensive presence.Quote:
Originally Posted by edgar
Losing RJ would leave a giant hole at the 3, and Chandler wouldn't fit in well next to TD at this stage in Tim's career. Tyson adds nothing offensively save for dunks and put-backs.
i know he's back.. :lol i said "9 games", the amount he DID miss.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckD
no pity to mavs and cuban
I can't seem to get behind the Mavs, even if they're playing the Lakers. I can only hope they both play so hard that they turn into dust and their remains become scattered and blown across the West Texas plains. If they're playing in Dallas, of course.
Charles Barkley thinks Dallas is the best team in Texas.
His opinion is all that counts.
Can't cheer for the Mavs, even against the Lakers. A win against LA would give the Mavs confidence again after beating a quality team like the Lakers.
Do NOT feel sorry for the Mavs. I remember when Bump made a thread laughing hysterically about Manu's injury in 2009.
i only hope the worst for the mavs and their fans, nothing bad like injuries or death, but so far so good!
and they play the lakers then chicago at chicago, I hope for them chandler will be back for the lakersQuote:
Originally Posted by Mel_13
The local word on the street is that if te Mavs do "pull the trigger on a trade", it will be for Stephen Jackson. They are desparate to fill the scoring hole left by Caron Butler's injury.Quote:
Originally Posted by Phila_Chamberlain
Short memory - while the Spurs have been extremely blessed regarding injuries this year, they've had to play more than a few games over the past 3-4 years without various members of the Big 3. On all those occasions, they have managed to keep their head above water (and sometimes even better).Quote:
Originally Posted by Phila_Chamberlain
Hell, last year the Spurs beat a healthy Mavs team without Tim AND Tony early in the season.
Mavs have been lucky, they've been healthy for years. The Lakers as well, Bynum not-withstanding.
And let's not forget the Mavs notched the most recent first round playoff series victory in 2008 (their only one in the past 5 years), it came courtesy of the Manu injury and a hobbled Duncan.Quote:
Originally Posted by K-State Spur
it's not like the mavs were gona win anything anyway.
Meltdown in Januar vs. meltdown in April
You and me both! We need more separation from the Lakers, we have a good gap between us and Dallas.Quote:
Originally Posted by honestfool84
He also picked the Suns over LA last year. That was homerism, not hard to understand.Quote:
Originally Posted by Phila_Chamberlain
The Mavs were doing pretty well when Charles made those remarks.
If not Jackson, Corey Maggette and Tayshun Prince has also been mentioned as possible targets. Of course, Maggette has an absolute killer contract. It just proves once again that desparate buyers must take big risks. ANd the Mavs are rapidly reaching that threshold of a desparate buyer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Phila_Chamberlain
He was BIG TIME on the Spurs bandwagon pretty much ever year from '03-'06. I think losing the '06 Mavs series turned him away.Quote:
Originally Posted by Phila_Chamberlain
If you're rooting against the Mavs, Maggette is the deal you want them to make. Would use up an expiring without making their team much better than it is as of today.Quote:
Originally Posted by SenorSpur
I don't think any of the rumored names can be plugged in halfway through the season and (re)make them a title contender - but some options are better than others.
Barkley also picked suns over spurs last year.
Cool story broQuote:
Originally Posted by Cessation
Yeah, I've thought for a while that they'd get desperate and pull the trigger on a Jackson deal. He's good enough to stem the tide some, but not nearly good enough to make them a legit contender (which, even when healthy, they never were).Quote:
Originally Posted by SenorSpur
They're old, slow, overrated defensively and lack anything resembling explosive offense. In fact, their offense is so poor that they're relying on Nowitzki's jumper continuing to fall at a rate it's never even come close to falling at just to resemble that of a competent offense. They remind me somewhat of the 07-08 Spurs, in that their margin for error is slim.
Because Nowitzki's their all-time guy and they just re-signed him for four seasons and he took less than he could have received, they feel like they owe it to him to continue to try to win now. I get that. But if they were being honest with themselves, they'd realize it's time to re-build.
Beaubois is a piece. Chandler is no longer up and coming, but still young enough to be a piece going forward. Jones is a maybe and Mahinmi and Ajinca are question marks, but the rest they either need to move on from or look to move. It'll take a lot of shrewd front office work and some good fortune, but they may be able to turn it around in two seasons if everything goes right. Because they have one, not three, major piece to build around and because they have veterans with bloated, long term contracts, such as Haywood and Marion, it would be an even greater undertaking than what the Spurs set out to do after the 07-08 season.
But I still think it's worth a shot, even though it sounds bleak at this juncture of re-loading on the fly while Nowitzki is still near the top of his game (his game should continue to age well, though). Because the truth is, short of acquiring the future Hall-of-Fame, at or near the top of his game perimeter player that they need (and are not going to be able to acquire, both because none are available and even if one were, they lack the pieces to acquire them) and that could mask some of their other deficiencies, they're not going to have a realistic chance of winning a championship in the Nowitzki era. That was cemented after the 06-07 season.
They should have pulled the trigger on SJax when Butler went down. Now Charlotte knows they're desperate and will probably want to dump a couple of more contracts in such a trade.
The Bobcats might be stupid enough to take on Haywood if the Mavs take Diop off their hands. Haywood is 31, but would give them a starting center for the foreseeable future, considering the fact that he's got five more seasons after this left on his contract (final one is a team option). The Bobcats do have a gaping hole in the middle, plus he played his college ball at nearby North Carolina. Not that that should matter or he'd be a draw, but they seem to value that their.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElNono
Diop has two seasons left on his contract after this (final one is a player option and there's no way he'll decline it), so this would be a real coup for the Mavs, to be able to rid themselves of Haywood's contract. At the same time, they could increase Chandler's minutes and find out what they have in Mahinmi.
Butler, Haywood and Jones or a 1st for Jackson, Diop and Najera works financially and is a trade that I wouldn't be surprised to see.
The Bobcats get a big expiring contract, a starting center for the foreseeable future and a decent, young, inexpensive asset and the Mavs get something resembling a go-to perimeter scorer/shot creator, a less burdensome contract to backup Chandler and an upgrade over Cardinal to backup Nowitzki (which isn't saying much).
haha diop back on the mavs would be awesome! and najera would be the cherry on top... hahahaha!
so, what you're saying is.... 2009 & a 1st round exit all over again? yes, do it cuban!
The Mavericks deserve every misfortune and loss because of it. I fart in their general direction. Cubans Mother was a hamster, and his father smelt of elderberries. When the Mavs and Spurs play again, I will taunt them a second time-uh. "I'm French! Where do you think I get this OUTRAGEOUS accent from?!"Quote:
Originally Posted by tdunk21
:pimpslap :deadhorse
:lol "Title contenders"
And now that Charlotte is playing better ball under Silas, theres even less of a chance the Bobcats trade him...Quote:
Originally Posted by ElNono
It will be 8 straight loss. They will play against Lakers at home and at Bulls in back to back.
I hate Lakers more than Mavs.
fuck the mavs why care for their misfortunes? fuck them nothing to see here
If they were willing to let Felton walk - I wouldn't expect them take on Haywood's contract just because he was mediocre big on a couple of Matt Daugherty's teams.Quote:
Originally Posted by TD 21
That's really not a bad trade for the Bobcats. Huge savings in 11-12 and 12-13 that don't have to get paid back until 13-14 and 14-15.Quote:
Originally Posted by TD 21
Really risky for the Mavs, though. The only thing protecting them from seeing Ian as their starting center is Chandler and his injury history.
As much as I hate the Mavs, I love intrastate rivalries. I would much prefer three Texas teams in the playoffs than just the Spurs. Basketball is alive and well in Texas, and I would like to see all three teams being contenders every year with the caveat that only the Spurs win the championship.
One thing you have to give to Cuban (among many) is that he's been a catalyst for the SA/DAL rivalry. He's business savvy as hell, and that bodes well for both franchises.
losing butler really hurt them. a trade may not be necessary if roddy comes back but he seems to have all the healing potential of mahimini. maybe it's a french thing.
This. Always. Lakers suck.Quote:
Originally Posted by honestfool84
cool story broQuote:
Originally Posted by DMC
I am always against the team with the better record ... so Go Mavs !!!Quote:
Originally Posted by JWest596
I've got a mixed feeling about this team.
I have a great admiration for both Jason Kidd and Dirk.
At the same time, I can't feel sorry about them at all because of Terry and Cuban.
fuck both of them... my tv will not be tuned in to that bs.Quote:
Originally Posted by JWest596
What happened to all the stuff about the Mavs depth? Losing to the Pistons is just unreal even with Chandler out as well as Butler.
One thing about the Mavs even when winning all those games their point differential was not that great and it is like without Dirk and Caron they have just tanked - maybe they were just over-hyped? It just shows how over-hyped Jason Terry and Marion are by some.
It is ok Roddy Beaulois will save the season for the Mavs! (or not!)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mel_13
K-State Spur, that was then, this is now. For example, the Suns having already undone some of and supposedly would like to undo all of their summer additions.
Haywood would at least give them a credible starting center for the foreseeable future (even though he's like Dampier; now that he's received the last big contract of his career, he's on cruise control) and like Mel_13 said, they'd reap savings in the next two seasons.
Mel_13, it would be a worthwhile risk for the Mavs, considering the fact that they wouldn't give up a ton of value and would rid themselves of a bloated contract at a position where they have a younger, more athletic, better player, who's an upcoming free agent. Plus, even though Jackson's not in the stratosphere of James, Wade, Bryant, Ginobili, Pierce, etc., he'd give them a better option as far as a go-to perimeter scorer/shot creator than they've had in some time.
The downfall would be, as you say, having to rely on two unproven centers (Ajinca being the other; Diop is out for the season) to man the middle if the injury prone Chandler goes down. Compounding matters worse, they don't have a quality backup PF, so there would be no legit third big. But it's still worthwhile.
I honestly feel bad for the Mavs. We of all fans know what injury can do to a team. I never wish any team injuries. I feel the same about the Rockets with Yao's injury (actually I feel worse for Rocket fan, because I have respect for them).
I hope Dirk heals fast, and I hope the Mavs pick up a replacement for Butler.
They're surely going to make a significant trade, so a trade like the one you suggest wouldn't surprise me. They have zero chance of making a deep playoff run as currently constructed and standing pat would mean accepting another failed season.Quote:
Originally Posted by TD 21
Dirk and Kidd seem destined to join Ewing and Barkley on that list.
LOL @ Haywood = credible center. He'd be a downgrade over what they are currently getting from Nazr.Quote:
Originally Posted by TD 21
Yep, and thats what I don't want to happen.. They will get better again like last year from that trade where they got hot late and looked scary.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mugen
What about Malone, Stockton and Miller?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mel_13
K-State Spur, a trade and a starting position would probably reinvigorate Haywood. He's always been the type to sulk when he's not starting. When he's motivated, he's a quality center.
Mohammed is still useful in short bursts, but he's at the stage where he can't be relied on for more than 18-20 mpg. Plus, he said earlier in the season that he may retire after this season. He's not a long term answer. Haywood's probably as good as the Bobcats can do.
Them too.Quote:
Originally Posted by TD 21
1) Going from a contender to a doormat would reinvigorate him? If he's sulking because he is coming off the bench (but still in the rotation) behind a superior player, that's not exactly a selling point for him.Quote:
Originally Posted by TD 21
2) Brendan has never been a "quality" center (with the possible exception of '08 in Washington) - mediocre or slightly above at times. There's a reason that Washington fans had labeled him as "Brenda" for most of his career there.
3) Nazr is only 2 years older than Haywood. Neither is a long term solution - no matter what the Dallas front office thought when they handed out that contract. It's one thing to say that Haywood might be an upgrade Charlotte at center if he returns to last year's level. It's another thing to say that other teams will value that level of play at $8-10M per season until 2015, when he will be 35.
I guess my overall point is that Haywood has zero (actually negative) trade value as a player at this point in time. NOBODY wants him right now with that contract. The only way he gets moved is if he part of a large scale trade that involves Dallas taking on vastly worse contract(s).
+1Quote:
Originally Posted by dmc
Quote:
Originally Posted by K-State Spur
You're missing the point. Going from the bench to starting is what would (potentially) reinvigorate him. I'm not necessarily advocating the move from the Bobcats standpoint, just playing devil's advocate. I could easily see this trade happening, so I'm looking at it from the standpoint of (if it does), why the Bobcats would do it.
At the very least, he's a credible center. Much more credible than guys like Brown and Diop. I never suggested he was anything special, though.
Mohammed has hinted at retirement. Haywood has another four years (five, but I think it's safe to safe whatever team he's on in year five declines the team option) on his contract. Despite his advancing age, he'd be a long term answer of sorts. I never said the latter, the former is what I'm getting at.
I agree Haywood has no trade value, or at least shouldn't, not with that albatross of a contract. But stranger things have happened in this league. Just look recently. Turkoglu has been traded twice and Arenas once. Mere months ago, that seemed unthinkable.
I get what you're saying - and I've taken off on a few tangents myself - but the point is this: Haywood does NOT have trade value with his contract.
For Dallas to move him - to Charlotte or anywhere - they would have to add pieces on their end (i.e. RB, which they wouldn't do), or they would have to take on an even worse contract (more likely).
Chemistry is a fragile thing. You don't realize how important it is until it is gone.
Dirk's injury was an obvious crushing blow. You can't lose a Super Star and expect to win very many games. But the loss of Butler was far more important than many "experts" wanted to believe.
"Tuff Juice" was a pretty good defender and he was finally finding his shot a little bit. Plus he was a catalyst out there. He always drew the tough defensive assignment taking pressure of Kidd.
Compounding the loss of Butler was Terry trying to step into the starting roll. Which is a failure. Terry is a below average defender so that hurt us on Defense and Terry's shooting was Horrible in December.
So without Butler and without Dirk it made it almost impossible to put a decent lineup on the floor.
Then just as Dirk was starting to get better Chandler gets sick. He was still sick last night throwing up before the game. Chandler is the piece of the puzzle that has been missing in Dallas for years. He is the athletic center the Mavs have not had since the 80's.
So subtract Dirk, Butler and Chandler and the Mavs are old and terrible. Insert Dirk and Chandler back into the lineup like last night against the Lakers
and get lucky with a 10 day contract guy like Pavolovic so Terry can come off the bench and you have a chance to win every night.
If Dirk and Chandler stay healthy the rest of the year the Mavs will challenge for the west. But if we had a healthy Butler the Mavs could have have gotten a title this year. But that's what happens in the NBA every year. 3 weeks ago we had High Hopes. Now we just pray for a win every night.
Quote:
you know... i'm actually going to be cheering for the Mavs on Wednesday vs the Lakers.
Still do.Quote:
Originally Posted by JWest596
I feel the Mavs win is more about the Lakers losing than anything else. I just don't think Kobe's "right". He seems way slower overall and actually looks a bit out of shape.
The Lakers, while being huge on the frontcourt, have a mediocre to poor backcourt. This should be concerning to Mr. Zen himself, Phil, because the Spurs have one of the quickest backcourts, I'd say top 5 quickest, in the league. Anyway, props to the Mavs for winning, but I feel there's more concern in Lakerland today than there is in Mavland as to where they are headed, respectively, in the standings.
Lakers are very old and tired looking who think they can just flip a switch. Like 2003 all over.
When is there not? Their team could win 67 games and have the best 55 game stretch ever and their fans would be panicking.Quote:
Panic in Mavtown
Neither did Arenas, or Turkoglu, or myriad other players over the years supposedly. It's not about whether he has trade value (we all know he doesn't), it's the fact that despite that, that almost never means someone is unmovable.Quote:
Originally Posted by K-State Spur
In the next two years, as Mel_13 said, the Bobcats would actually save money in this proposed trade.
You don't know for certain the Mavs would have to add on their end. I'm not saying for certain they wouldn't, I just wouldn't be so quick to rule the trade out on the basis of Haywood having freshly signed an instant albatross. History has shown (recent history, even) that that means nothing.