Suicide bomber kills 35+, wounds 130+ in Russian airport

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE70N2TQ20110124

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110124/..._airport_blast

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0..._n_813075.html

Russian officials are calling it a terrorist attack.

:depressed

Pretty sad situation. It's Russia's busiest airport. You have to be incredibly cowardly to walk into a group of people and set the bomb off knowing you'll never have to live to face punishment for killing dozens of people. People who probably never did anything wrong to you, almost certainly never met you before, you cut their lives off in an instant just to scare others.

"People who probably never did anything wrong to you, almost certainly never met you before, you cut their lives off."

are you talking about victims of dubya/dickhead/Repug's bogus war-for-oil ?

boutons, youre a lonely lonely man.

I wonder what Sarah Palin said to cause the attack.

have they find out which group or race did it?

the only clowns i see russia havin problems with over the years are chechyans right???

so they found the head of the bomber, but it could be anyone, how are they sure if his the bomber? just cause his arab?

they are still hunting 2 more....

Probably somebody upset about the U.S. health care law.

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Originally Posted by The Reckoning

boutons, youre a lonely lonely man.

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You Can't Handle The Truth.

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Originally Posted by boutons_deux

"People who probably never did anything wrong to you, almost certainly never met you before, you cut their lives off."

are you talking about victims of dubya/dickhead/Repug's bogus war-for-oil ?

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Wow, now you're supporting terrorism? What the fuck is wrong with you?

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Originally Posted by boutons_deux

are you talking about victims of dubya/dickhead/Repug's bogus war-for-oil ?

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What are you saying, boutons? Don't ask questions in response, it's passive-aggressive. Be a man. Say what you mean.

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Originally Posted by Cry Havoc

What are you saying, boutons? Don't ask questions in response, it's passive-aggressive. Be a man. Say what you mean.

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lolz

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Originally Posted by Cry Havoc

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE70N2TQ20110124

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110124/..._airport_blast

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0..._n_813075.html

Russian officials are calling it a terrorist attack.

:depressed

Pretty sad situation. It's Russia's busiest airport. You have to be incredibly cowardly to walk into a group of people and set the bomb off knowing you'll never have to live to face punishment for killing dozens of people. People who probably never did anything wrong to you, almost certainly never met you before, you cut their lives off in an instant just to scare others.

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Russia's brutal involvement in Chechnya has made it a target for such attacks.

Oddly enough it shows how corruption can kill as well, because previously, two suicide bombers flew out of that airport using illegal tickets purchased from corrupt airport officials. They detonated themselves mid-air and killed 90 people.

To be clear: I think such attacks are horrible.

Understanding the context is key though. What the Russians have done in its breakaway state has been... nasty.

any violent act against your own is called terrorism.

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Originally Posted by RandomGuy

Russia's brutal involvement in Chechnya has made it a target for such attacks.

Oddly enough it shows how corruption can kill as well, because previously, two suicide bombers flew out of that airport using illegal tickets purchased from corrupt airport officials. They detonated themselves mid-air and killed 90 people.

To be clear: I think such attacks are horrible.

Understanding the context is key though. What the Russians have done in its breakaway state has been... nasty.

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How many countries in the world don't have similar blood on their hands? Seriously, if terrorists were to target every country who had questionable dealing, bombs would explode in every country on Earth on a daily basis. It's ridiculous to say that, "Well, there have been questionable/bad decisions made by country X, so that's why..."

Every country, if held to standards of, "You aren't allowed to fuck up or kill people ever" would fail and fail miserably. Every. Single. Nation. That does not excuse what Russia has been doing, it is merely a fact that humanity is deeply flawed, and most governments are unfit to govern from such a perspective, because they will always start wars, kill people, etc.

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Originally Posted by boutons_deux

"People who probably never did anything wrong to you, almost certainly never met you before, you cut their lives off."

are you talking about victims of dubya/dickhead/Repug's bogus war-for-oil ?

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You're such a fucking moron.

Ok so whats your point CH? RG made the right point that when you undertake actions as Russia has there are consequences and terrorism isn't exactly a new one. You're right that a lot of countries have similar blood on their hands and there are a lot of of countries under attack by terrorists.

Suicide terrorism is by large part a very effective strategy. Thats something you never hear about unless you actually read some of the research behind the actions which is sad because its by far the biggest indicator of why these attacks are used. A book called Dying to Win is one of the best books on terrorism that I've read and it talks about that very fact quite a bit.

Its pretty easy to sit back from our lives and question what these people do and look at it as horrific. But then again, you've never had to pick up the pieces of an atrocity committed by a government against you and had no recourse to act out.

I obviously would prefer a world with no terrorism, but that doesn't mean we should look at the acts in black and white. On one hand introspection and reaction to terrorism would seem to encourage the acts but when you realize that they're already incredibly effective at getting change then I think we should be pragmatic and realize the motivations for these actions aren't borne in a vaccum.

http://chasmang.files.wordpress.com/...no-russian.png

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Originally Posted by boutons_deux

are you talking about victims of dubya/dickhead/Repug's bogus war-for-oil ?

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And somehow, some way this relates to Bush and Republicans.

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Originally Posted by Cry Havoc

How many countries in the world don't have similar blood on their hands? Seriously, if terrorists were to target every country who had questionable dealing, bombs would explode in every country on Earth on a daily basis. It's ridiculous to say that, "Well, there have been questionable/bad decisions made by country X, so that's why..."

Every country, if held to standards of, "You aren't allowed to fuck up or kill people ever" would fail and fail miserably. Every. Single. Nation. That does not excuse what Russia has been doing, it is merely a fact that humanity is deeply flawed, and most governments are unfit to govern from such a perspective, because they will always start wars, kill people, etc.

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Indeed, every country has blood on its hands.

The difference today is that Russia's is a bit more recent, than say, the Netherland's occupation of certain islands in the Pacific.

I was only providing what I thought was relevant background material.

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Originally Posted by Cry Havoc

How many countries in the world don't have similar blood on their hands? Seriously, if terrorists were to target every country who had questionable dealing, bombs would explode in every country on Earth on a daily basis. It's ridiculous to say that, "Well, there have been questionable/bad decisions made by country X, so that's why..."

Every country, if held to standards of, "You aren't allowed to fuck up or kill people ever" would fail and fail miserably. Every. Single. Nation. That does not excuse what Russia has been doing, it is merely a fact that humanity is deeply flawed, and most governments are unfit to govern from such a perspective, because they will always start wars, kill people, etc.

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Nope.

Terrorism is wrong because it's mostly "civilians" that pay the highest price. But this kind of reasoning isn't true. I would venture to say that all countries that have committed acts of violence against other nations/ethnic/religious groups (and yes there are case where those acts were justified) have experienced terrorist attacks against them.

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Originally Posted by MannyIsGod

Suicide terrorism is by large part a very effective strategy. Thats something you never hear about unless you actually read some of the research behind the actions which is sad because its by far the biggest indicator of why these attacks are used. A book called Dying to Win is one of the best books on terrorism that I've read and it talks about that very fact quite a bit.

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I'm not sure about suicide bombers being an "effective" strategy.

Generally such kinds of violence tend to create a backlash that works counter to the aim of such attacks.

The book sounds interesting, though.

RG, Lets talk about Iraq for a second and terrorism there. Do you think the attacks there have helped reach the goal of removing US forces or do you think the public feelings of backlash against shoe actions have American citizens wanting to keep troops there longer?

This is a quick wikipedia look at what part of the book covers, RG.

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Part I: The Strategic Logic of Suicide Terrorism
[edit]Ch. 3: A Strategy for Weak Actors
The willingness of an attacker to die has strategic value (27-29). As a weapon of weak groups incapable of “denial” as a “coercive strategy,” suicide terrorism relies on punishment and, especially, “the expectation of future damage,” which provides coercive leverage (29-33).
[edit]Ch. 4: Targeting Democracies
Pape claims that his is the first complete analysis of suicide terrorism, as such revealing that not religion but “to compel democracies to withdraw military forces from the terrorists’ national homeland” is its key (38). Patterns of timing (39-41), nationalist goals (42-44), and the targeting of democracies (44-45) reveal its logical, not irrational, nature. “At bottom, suicide terrorism is a strategy for national liberation from foreign military occupation by a democratic state” (45). Foreign occupation is defined in terms of control of territory (not military occupation alone) (46). The targets selected by suicide terrorists suggests nationalist, not religious, aims (46-47). Hamas (47-51) and Al-Qaeda (51-58) are analyzed in some detail. In general, the harshness of occupation does not strongly correlate with suicide terrorism (58-60).
[edit]Ch. 5: Learning Terrorism Pays
Terrorists are predisposed to attribute success to their technique whenever plausible (62-64). Pape claims that “recent suicide terrorist campaigns . . . are associated with gains for the terrorists’ political causes about half the time” (64-65). Hamas’s success is difficult to evaluate, but Hamas spokespersons express belief in their own success (65-73). Terrorists learn from each other; the spread of the method is therefore neither irrational nor surprising (73-75). But suicide terrorism has failed “to compel target democracies to abandon goals central to national wealth or security” (75-76).

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Originally Posted by RandomGuy

I'm not sure about suicide bombers being an "effective" strategy.

Generally such kinds of violence tend to create a backlash that works counter to the aim of such attacks.

The book sounds interesting, though.

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Well I've once heard the opinion of an army strategist that basically said that for a small price (life of the bomber - and you know that to his bosses he's worth less than an insect) the victims pay a very high price in lost lives, damage to the infrastructure, medical services, increased security after wards, police and other resources aimed at preventing a repeat.

He compared it to anti personnel mines, who are aimed at maiming and not killing combatants because an injured soldier is a bigger burden than a dead one.

I suggest the senitive, curious and intelligent among you -there might be some-
to watch
Nikita Mikhalkov's movie

12 (The jury).

Thereater, you can judge, perhaps.


Incidentally, the "knife dance" scene is one of my favoured movies scenes of all time.

For all the others, war on terrorism etch is just fine.

I am just so worried about the people behind this act.
Will the get their civil rights in Russia.

boutons, can you please advise us on this.....

Slomo is right: "terrorism" can be extremely effective at increasing costs.
To the point when the gross part of the GDP that goes into maintaining a largely useless security apparatus is simply unbearable.

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Originally Posted by xrayzebra

I am just so worried about the people behind this act.
Will the get their civil rights in Russia.

boutons, can you please advise us on this.....

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boutons response would most likely consist of "civil rights? YOU LIE! repugs are propping up the russian govt for pitbull bitch's run at the presidency of this morally bankrupt country, i laugh at you and spit on your graves."

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Originally Posted by temujin

I suggest the senitive, curious and intelligent among you -there might be some-
to watch
Nikita Mikhalkov's movie

12 (The jury).

Thereater, you can judge, perhaps.


Incidentally, the "knife dance" scene is one of my favoured movies scenes of all time.

For all the others, war on terrorism etch is just fine.

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Looked it up and am interested. 12 angry men was a pretty influential film for me when I was a teenager so I'd like to see what this directors take on it is.

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Originally Posted by Cry Havoc

How many countries in the world don't have similar blood on their hands?

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There are plenty of us, thank you very much.

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Originally Posted by Cry Havoc

How many countries in the world don't have similar blood on their hands?

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They all do it. You really went there. :lol

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Originally Posted by Cry Havoc

Seriously, if terrorists were to target every country who had questionable dealing, bombs would explode in every country on Earth on a daily basis.

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Given the regrettably flawed character of all countries, the relative infrequency of terrorist acts should be considered a clue as to the true scale of the problem. It's been tragically overblown.

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Originally Posted by Cry Havoc

It's ridiculous to say that, "Well, there have been questionable/bad decisions made by country X, so that's why..."

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It's ridiculous to suggest terroristic violence targets unpopular or controversial policies? Really?

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Originally Posted by Cry Havoc

Every country, if held to standards of, "You aren't allowed to fuck up or kill people ever" would fail and fail miserably. Every. Single. Nation.

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Thank God it is not so. All that Manny suggested, I believe, is that policy can have unintended consequences.

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Originally Posted by Cry Havoc

That does not excuse what Russia has been doing, it is merely a fact that humanity is deeply flawed, and most governments are unfit to govern from such a perspective, because they will always start wars, kill people, etc.

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Seems like you're trying to the make the perfect the enemy of the good. If a government of men predictably falls short of perfection, that is no good reason to be lax about accountability, whether moral, legal or political.

While it is probably true that terrorism inhabits a moral vacuum, it does take place in a political universe, in some determinate political context.

Historical context and specificity do not justify terrorism, but they do condition the act and its interpretation. Context and history have explanatory mojo.

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Originally Posted by Cry Havoc

What are you saying, boutons? Don't ask questions in response, it's passive-aggressive. Be a man. Say what you mean.

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So I really gotta spell it out?

dubya, dickhead, and their neo-con mob lied the US into Iraq to grab the oil. Several 100K people are dead as a direct result, and are still dying. Murdering (civilian) people for economic gain is as terrorizing as is murdering people for political/religious reasons.

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Originally Posted by boutons_deux

So I really gotta spell it out?

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Tone deaf. CH was being facetious.

BTW, when do we grab the Iraqi oil? The pesky Iraqis keep giving the big development contracts to other countries.

"when do we grab the Iraqi oil"

incompetence and impotence were two of the many Enduring Signatures of the Repugs' Reign of Error.

So they should have grabbed the oil?

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Originally Posted by boutons_deux

"when do we grab the Iraqi oil"

incompetence and impotence were two of the many Enduring Signatures of the Repugs' Reign of Error.

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Impotence? IIRC they had no problem fucking this country.

bullies are dickless

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Originally Posted by boutons_deux

bullies are dickless

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no, heifers are dickless.

If bomber turns out to be Muslim, it is pure coincidence.

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Originally Posted by DarrinS

If bomber turns out to be Muslim, it is pure coincidence.

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:lmao

Darrin's been waiting on the edge of his seat for the name "al-Muhammed" to appear as the attacker's name, and he couldn't wait any longer.

Nice give-up. Bigot.

.

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Originally Posted by Spurminator

:lmao

Darrin's been waiting on the edge of his seat for the name "al-Muhammed" to appear as the attacker's name, and he couldn't wait any longer.

Nice give-up. Bigot.

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You expect his name to be John Smith? Quit lying to yourself.

^^^ your fantasy, funboy. Hope it was fun!




(For me it was totally obtuse, in an almost humorous way)

How does John Smith enter into it? I didn't get that. I still don't get that.

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Originally Posted by Winehole23

How does John Smith enter into it? I didn't get that. I still don't get that.

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I think he meant that you shouldn't expect the terrorist to have a "white", "Christian" name.




Cause we all know that the only person on this board that supports terrorism is boutons.

let me get this straight- russian civilians are killed by chechnyan terrorists and its russia's fault for "mishandling" chechnya (which is at least part of their own country), but American civilians are killed by saudi terrorists and its iraq and radical islam's fault for having WMD and hate for freedom loving westerners. gotcha. (I know not everyone thinks like this, but this thread has posts that smell of it)



and no, not EVERY. SINGLE. COUNTRY. is guilty of state violence. AFAIK New Zealand or Singapore havent bombed other countries/their own people, then have to deal with terrorist retribution. maybe every world/regional power, but not every country / government needs to kill people domestic or foreign in order to grow.

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Originally Posted by johnsmith

I think he meant that you shouldn't expect the terrorist to have a "white", "Christian" name.

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I don't expect that. If the attack was related to the Chechen conflict, there's a high probability the attacker was Muslim. That doesn't mean I'm going to take alternate routes to work to avoid passing by a mosque.

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Originally Posted by johnsmith

I think he meant that you shouldn't expect the terrorist to have a "white", "Christian" name.

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OIC. Thanks, johnsmith.

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Originally Posted by diego

let me get this straight- russian civilians are killed by chechnyan terrorists

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Speculated, not established. Preliminary info does not implicate Chechens.

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Originally Posted by diego

and its russia's fault for "mishandling" chechnya (which is at least part of their own country), but American civilians are killed by saudi terrorists and its iraq and radical islam's fault for having WMD and hate for freedom loving westerners. gotcha.

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Is there something wrong with having things both ways? It's commonly done in this forum. :hat