wouldn't this solve the Middle East crisis that is bleeding the world to death??
let those mofos kill each other once we evacuate the Jews.
as an added plus, they would civilize Montana
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wouldn't this solve the Middle East crisis that is bleeding the world to death??
let those mofos kill each other once we evacuate the Jews.
as an added plus, they would civilize Montana
You do know why Israel is located where it is, right?
You do know why the Arab world wants that land for themselves, right?
Montana isnt going to cut it for the Israelies (sp?).
Why should a strip of land big as a piece of an eraser on the proverbial football field sized middle east cause the muslim/arab world so much grief?
It doesn't matter if Israel was in the ME or the new world, might as well keep it where it had been historically...
Unlike America where honor is a quaint idea in public life, in primitive societies like retrograde Muslim/Arab societies, honor is primary.
The Palestinians, ethnically identical to native Israelis, feel that the Israeli land grab of Palestine in 1947 and the expulsion/degradation/brutalization of Palestinians is a stain on their honor.
Israel seems more like a "Florida" type of crowd than a "Montana" one.
Better yet, Wyoming. That state needs some financial help.
they would eventually get over itQuote:
Originally Posted by DarkReign
so just to make Israelis happy we are sinking the entire world??Quote:
You do know why the Arab world wants that land for themselves, right?
Montana isnt going to cut it for the Israelies (sp?).
my point is, would this "crazy solution" fix the Middle East issue (which is the biggest world issue) once and for all?
great idea but it would FAIL on every level.
1. Israelis are the "chosen people" their wellbeing is the Western World's duty.
2. There is definitely some secret society/conspiracy by the big Western powers (US, Britain, Israel, etc) to keep that land in the middle East. It goes back to the Templars.
3. The israelis themselves will never leave because of reason 1, 2 and because they have invested too much in the land.
4. Americans like Israelis from a distance, but they do not want them in their neighborhood.
that is the saddest part of all. Everyone is willing to die for israelis over there, but they do not want them close by.
they are like that rich annoying uncle. You love them when they send you money but hate when they visit and stay a while.
Well, it is all about geography. You cannot change a "Holy land."Quote:
Originally Posted by nkdlunch
Besides, America has the largest Jewish population in the world already.
Holy Land??Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Cobra
Holy to whom? I am christian myself but do not care who lives on that land, it's just another piece of land. What is so special about keeping the Holy Land in the hands of christian/jews today???
Then you don't understand the crisis.Quote:
Originally Posted by nkdlunch
care to help me out?Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Cobra
Quote:
Originally Posted by nkdlunch
What if we relocate all the radical Ismalists to Michigan.
Oh, too late.
EDIT> Just kidding. But why would we relocate Israel?
I don't completely understand the crisis. I do know this however. It doesn't matter where the Jews are. Islamic radicals consider all Christians to be Jews as well. That's why we were attacked on 9-11. Moving the Jewish people will only move where the attacks will be. Now as for the Holy lands. Everyone want Jerusalem. Everyone wants the Dead Sea area, especially Masada. You simply cannot relocate something like the dead sea, or Masada. That's just two of the Holy sites. Ever hear of the "Wailing Wall?"Quote:
Originally Posted by nkdlunch
I agree in the 19th century it was mega important. Shit like the crusades, inquisition happened because religion was boss.
Now? not so much. those holy sites dont mean much to the general christian populace. And less to the growing non-christians. So why keep acting like it's 1850??
They don't mean much to you or I, but they do to those who hold religion dear.Quote:
Originally Posted by nkdlunch
Still, it doesn't matter what Israel does. Extremists will always be after them until they are all dead, or submit to the laws of the Quran.
I don't know if I agree. The reason extremist muslims want Jews dead is 99% because of Israel being in "their land"
"It doesn't matter where the Jews are."
WC weighs in with his well-informed opinion, diametrically opposite of what Real Jews think.
"Islamic radicals consider all Christians to be Jews as well. That's why we were attacked on 9-11."
Wow. Got a link? Just when you think WC can be anymore stupid and misinformed...
OBL said he was pissed about US military boots defiling his sacred Saudi Arabian soil (there's that honor/dirt angle again!)
You keep talking about how Christians perceive things, but from a Jewish perspective Jerusalem is THE holiest of holies dating back several thousand years. That's one reason there have been so many wars fought over it. Israel is the ancestral land of the Jewish people. They were there 2000 years before Mohammed came around. Now you say the Jews should leave because Muslim extremists don't like it?
Perhaps you cannot understand the crisis because you are not Jewish (nor am I) but the homeland is a huge part of their mindset.
Aren't the Jews everywhere already?
We should blow the fucking piece of land up and have it sink into the nearest body of water.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nkdlunch
And why do they want us dead?
because we support Israel of courseQuote:
Originally Posted by DarrinS
The reason they hate America is because we are the ones backing Israel. We give them money, fighter jets, missiles, military secrets, everything.Quote:
Originally Posted by DarrinS
We are over there meddling in their affairs for almost a century, and they are pissed off at us for it.
true.Quote:
Originally Posted by CubanMustGo
But the Jews were doing fine and dandy residing outside of the Middle East in Europe/America, of course, until Hitler came around.
No. Flat out, absolutely, NO! That's an excuse that they know works with the world.Quote:
Originally Posted by nkdlunch
Since when does evil tell the truth?
Perhaps, having seen what happened when they did not have their own country, you can see why they might be loathe to once again give it up.Quote:
Originally Posted by nkdlunch
they won't. they'll have a country in montana. You know it'd be like Monaco or San Marino.Quote:
Originally Posted by CubanMustGo
How about we make your residence their state capital, and all the land is theirs for a 200 mile radius around your place?Quote:
Originally Posted by nkdlunch
the Jew Religion and Israeli goverment are one. This is not the case with Christians and USA anymore.
I agree USA needs to grow up and look for other options. Like telling Israelis to stop expanding their territory. To stop the slow genocide of the Palestines.
But money talks and the Israelis have and unlimited bank account.
Not with the natural gas boom. It is doing fine, to my admittedly limited understanding. No income taxes, low sales taxes. You would like it.Quote:
Originally Posted by johnsmith
Fuck that. Montana is one of the best parts of the US. We don't need terrorists fucking it all up.
Ship em to Cuba and you kill two birds with one stone...
Not exactly. Judaism is the established religion of Israel, but Israel isn't a theocracy. It's a democracy.Quote:
Originally Posted by hater
I don't think he meant it in the literal sense, but more like technically speaking.Quote:
Originally Posted by Winehole23
Pretty sure I know how CNN would slant the story when the inevitable Turner/Israeli border disputes arise.
There are better ways to say Israel is a Jewish state than "The Jew religion and Israel are one."Quote:
Originally Posted by ElNono
I think he's talking about influence of religion in government matters...Quote:
Originally Posted by Winehole23
But I guess I should stop trying to interpret what somebody else said... that's just how it came across to me :D
"the Jew religion" sort of stuck in my craw. I'm ok with being somewhat pedantic about that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hater
You're making a strong case for this thread.
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=171631
Israel already has the biggest discovery of Natural Gas under their feet. And experts are confident there are billions of barrels of oil under that gas.
Food for thought...
Its the fucking Holy Land to both Jews/Christians and Arabs. Its the epicenter of all western faiths, where it all (supposedly) began. For the religious, its the very birthplace of the discovery and covenant of God. Who He is, how He works, in some instances He has even made an appearance there to certain people.Quote:
Originally Posted by jacobdrj
To them, its the land that represents the transition from un-saved to salvation through their designated prophet(s).
To the believer, there is nothing and no one more important than that land, what we call Israel today. Remember for instance, that your devotion to God supersedes your devotion to anyone else, even your own family. God asked Abraham to sacrifice his only son, and he did as commanded, because God told him to.
Think about that for a moment and ponder out loud about how wrong those nasty Muslims are about wanting their land back. Its the birthplace of their faith, too, remember?
http://homepage.mac.com/jerrypeterso...20Abraham.html
Every fucking problem in the region is based around belief in Santa Clause. There is no worse indictment on the hubris and stupidity of man than the Middle East and all its subsequent followers of its 3 faiths.
dark reign's down again. :thumbsup
Nothing conjures hate quite like religion. It is getting clearer and clearer that religion has been created by evil.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkReign
Why is Isreal there?
why do Arabs want to kill Isreal?
wtf is going on!! :(
God.Quote:
Originally Posted by FalleNxWiZarDx
God.Quote:
why do Arabs want to kill Isreal?
God only knows.Quote:
wtf is going on!! :(
It's Bush's fault. Or Reagan. Or the Tea Party.
That, and the Arab nations getting their asses handed to them by the Israelis first in the 6 Day War when Israel launched a preemptive strike on massing Arab forces and seized the Golan Heights, and later when the Arab Nations launched a surprise attack on Israel on the Holiest day of the Jewish year, Yom Kippur- and still lost. Now they want Israel to give the Golan Heights back.Quote:
Originally Posted by boutons_deux
As for the Palestinians, they like to strap bombs to brainwashed teenagers and mentally challenged people so they can blow up buses loaded with women and children. They have many stains on their 'honor,' and they've inflicted the vast majority of them.
Eh, the Israelis bombed, assassinated and kidnapped and executed hostages when they were fighting for their independence.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thompson
I guess you can forgive them, though. It's the Christian thing to do.
:lol good one.Quote:
Originally Posted by coyotes_geek
That's true, but do you know how widespread that was? Something like 80% of Palestinians support bombers that blow up women and children. As far as I know, those Jewish terrorists were fringe groups, and I don't know how many mentally challenged people they put on buses to blow up women and children; I think a lot of their targets had some political/military affiliation. Doesn't mean it's o.k., but it's not as reprehensible either.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChumpDumper
The Jews are God's chosen people and He gave them that land in an everlasting covenant. I know many of you on here don't believe - but all Bible prophecy centers around Israel. We are seeing the signs of the end times. God promised that the Jews would one day be a nation again and that promised was fulfilled in 1948.
The hatred between Jews and Arabs goes all the way back to Isaac and Ishmael - shows you what happens when you try to "help" God out.
Yeah, those terrorist groups were so on the fringe that one of their leaders became prime minister of Israel.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thompson
You're either for terrorism or against it -- or you can find your way to be an apologist for some when it suits your political views.
So, do you believe that a war in the mideast will signal the end times and Jesus' return to Earth?Quote:
Originally Posted by Crookshanks
What if we relocated "Palestinians" to Antarctica?
Which prime minister blew up women and children?Quote:
Originally Posted by ChumpDumper
That would be Begin -- although to be fair, his group shot more women and children then they blew up. Shamir's group also carried out the shootings as well as bombings.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thompson
Does this change your opinion at all or would you like to move the goalposts?
http://www.threadbombing.com/data/me...s_facepalm.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by Crookshanks
Link?Quote:
Originally Posted by ChumpDumper
keywords: Irgun and Stern GangQuote:
Originally Posted by Thompson
Enjoy.
Why does God play favorites?Quote:
God's chosen people
Liar.Quote:
Originally Posted by hater
That's not true.
LOL...Quote:
Originally Posted by DarrinS
Spot on!
Wouldn't it be better if we did that to liberals?Quote:
Originally Posted by Yonivore
http://www.britains-smallwars.com/Palestine/kidnap.htmQuote:
Originally Posted by ChumpDumper
"In 1944, with the end the war in sight, Irgun, now under the leadership of Menachem Begin , the future Prime Minister of Israel 1977-83, began to attack the British administration in Palestine, starting with bomb attacks on the immigration offices, tax offices and police stations. Because the war was not yet over these activities met with condemnation even from the Jewish Agency and Haganah, the main Jewish Defense Force, and the forerunner of the Israeli Army." [emphasis added]
"During December 1945, the focus of the Jewish attacks shifted to RAF airfields, police stations and armories."
About the King David Hotel bombing,
"Not all the 91 one people killed were members of the British Security Forces. There were 15 Jews among the dead, including women who had been working as secretaries in the building. The Irgun claimed that the British had been warned about the attack by telephone, but the warning was ignored."
One could argue that they were not actively targeting the women (and who knows if the claim of the warning was true or not), but even so that was a despicable act on the part of Begin and the Irgun. I have no problem condemning it. They committed other murders as well and I can certainly condemn them for those, though at least their targets tended to be military in nature, and not random civilians.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irgun#c...hmidtFCPRIOT-2
"Critics of the Irgun have seen it as a terrorist organization. It was legally classified as such by the new State of Israel in 1948."
I have no problem condemning them, especially for the King David bombing in 1946 which at best showed a callous disregard for innocent life as 'collateral damage.'
In the current situation, however, the Israelis try to limit civilian deaths among the Palestinians while trying to protect their people, while the Palestinians brainwash their children and take advantage of mentally challenged individuals to target innocent civilians. Israel is clearly in the right in this situation. Can you admit that?
I can condemn both, and no, Israel is not clearly in the right in the current situation.
It's all 1s and 0s with you folks, isn't it?
Because He's God and He can!Quote:
Originally Posted by Nbadan
I wonder if he has a favorite beer too? which beer do you think is God's beer?Quote:
Originally Posted by Crookshanks
God's kind of a dick tbh.
So you see no difference in Israel's trying to limit civilian deaths among the Palestinians when responding to attacks by militants hiding amongst themQuote:
Originally Posted by ChumpDumper
...and the Palestinians (with near 70-80% support of their people) using brainwashed adolescents and mentally challenged people to blow up buses full of women and children. Gotcha.
God seems to be an underachiever prone to anger; I'll have to go with High Life.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nbadan
I see differences, but nothing that makes me want to give either side billions of dollars.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thompson
If you want to be led around on a leash by one side, that's your right.
We're not arguing about giving them billions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChumpDumper
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thompson
Trying not to hurt civilians vs. trying to hurt civilians. That's pretty clear-cut. I never said every Israeli is as pure as the driven snow and every Palestinian is evil. You try so hard to see every side of an issue and every shade of gray that you end up missing the forest for the trees. Case in point, you observe that the Israelis try to spare innocent life while the Palestinians try to butcher as many innocents as possible, and your response isQuote:
Originally Posted by ChumpDumper
Yeah, okay.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChumpDumper
And we weren't talking about the current situation until you changed the subject.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thompson
And the simple fact is we are giving one side billions every year, apparently without one string attached.
Fuck that.
Fuck both sides.
This was my first quote in the thread, talking about present-day terrorism. It was relevant to the topic, because if Israel is 'removed' you are rewarding the Palestinians and punishing the Jews. If anything, the reverse should happen, as the Israelis are in the right and possess the land. Now you bring up giving Israel billions of dollars, because you no longer want to discuss or admit how sparing innocents > slaughtering innocents (that's 'too binary' for you).Quote:
Originally Posted by Thompson
Fuck those trying to butcher innocents, and fuck those trying to spare them. Brilliant conclusion.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChumpDumper
It's true, but ultimately a stupid argument.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thompson
Is that why you want to cheerlead for them and give them billions a year?
They do plenty else that is reprehensible.Quote:
Fuck those trying to butcher innocents, and fuck those trying to spare them. Brilliant conclusion.
Yes, fuck them.
They are fucking you and you seem to love it.
Why do you love them so much?
No one can explain to me why they are so in the tank for Israel.
I only read so far but I'm assuming I'm the only one here who has taken a class on the history or Israel. The are many underlying causes for the crisis including religion but that major factor is land.
Pre-Israel Palestine was thought to be largely uninhabited. This started a movement across Europe of Jews relocating. There were several mass immigrations starting in the 19th century and finalized after the holocaust.
The Palestinians were largely a people without an identity. They were once part of a greater Syria which composed of Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, and present day Israel. The British and French cut up the country to those we see today with (I believe) Jordan and Palestine (israel) going to the British. This caused a divide where the Lebanese and Syrians would be educated by the French with the Palestinians and Jordanians being taught by the British. This doesn't sound like much but the Frnech and British have very different philosophies which started a rift.
Jordan was eventually given to a deposed member of the Saudi family which left Palestine by itself. Palestine really did not have an identity of who these people were at the time other than their geographical location.
Once the Jewish settlers came they shook the culture down to the core. The settlers would only hire other Jews for work in order to keep wages high and encourage more to settle. The effect on the local population was obviously very harmful.
Long story short more settlers came which pushed the poorer local population out. This single act is what gave the Palestinians their identity. They are actually unique in that they are the only culture in the world whose identity comes as the anti-identity of another culture. The religious aspect was something that didn't pop up until later as a unifying factor of that culture. It was just something to help bind the Palestinians together.
Long story short, the only way you will ever have peace between those two people is if Palestine changes their culture or Israel fully integrates a muslim religion into their country. Neither of which will ever happen.
What is Israel's endgame here?
I'd like it explained to me.
And no, I'm not glossing over the endgame of many Muslim groups -- I know what theirs is.
I think the relocation question is a silly one -- but would Israelis prefer to be rid of all the Arabs within what they believe are their borders?
I think most Israeli would like to see a stable Palestinian state but many recent Israeli immigrants and right-wing groups support the building of illegal settlements on Palestinian land...
Jerusalem should be a holy city to both Jews and Muslims instead of a point of contention..
So would they want a buffer zone beyond their actual borders, like they had before?
Israel's endgame is it's existence. A purely Jewish state on Jewish holy land. Most of the people who settled there came from very shitty situations all over the world not limited to the obvious. The only major exception were the Jews who lived in the United States. There was actually a conference where they decided that they would stay in the United States and live as American but they would keep their unique Jewish culture.
I'm really really tired and I'm sure my sentences aren't flowing well but Israel doesn't have plans for global domination or anything like that. It just wants to exist... and like I said before Palestine only wants it to not exist lol.
You know the Palestinian only fire on illegal Israeli settlements now...not to justify terror, just saying..Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyson_Chandler
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChumpDumper
It depends who you talk to but most Israelis wouldn't mind arabs living with them as long as they are docile and understand that Israel is a Jewish country before anything else.
Thanks for your input.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vici
"Purely" sounds a bit odd in this context.
The buffer zone ain't going away anytime soon...Quote:
Originally Posted by ChumpDumper
Well, it used to be a lot bigger.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nbadan
What?Quote:
Originally Posted by ChumpDumper
:bangQuote:
Originally Posted by ChumpDumper
butcher innocents=bad
spare innocents=good
Also as they are surrounded by nations hostile to them, I respect their military's ability to fight off what are (on paper) overwhelmingly superior forces, even when taken by complete surprise. I respect the relative restraint they've shown when dealing with hostile Palestinians who would gleefully slaughter them if they had the chance; I don't think we would do any better (perhaps not even as well as they do) if we were in their situation. You don't have to be 'in the tank' to come out on their side; if nothing else,
butcher innocents=bad
spare innocents (in spite of the fact that they may wish you harm)=good
By purely I mean to say there is no ambiguity to what Israel is... a Jewish country.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChumpDumper
I think Israel has a larger end game...
Have you ever questioned anything Israel has done?Quote:
Originally Posted by Thompson
If so, what?
I'm sure they would. They have the power to make it so, and yet they spare the Palestinians. If the situations were reversed, the Jews would be slaughtered.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChumpDumper
Which is?Quote:
Originally Posted by Nbadan
There are ways to accomplish this other than slaughter.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thompson
There was once a Palestinian boy who realized most of the propaganda against the Jews was B.S. When he was got older, he started working for Mossad as a double agent. He did a lot of good things for them, but eventually the work got too dangerous, and he wanted out. He didn't rat them out or anything, but even after all he had done for them Mossad sold him out to the British, I believe (falsely claiming he was spying on them or something). I'm sure there are thousands, millions of other bad things that Israel has done, as is the case with any nation. You can't get so hung up on shades of gray and perspective that you lose sight of the big picture, however.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChumpDumper
A. The Israelis have the power to wipe out the Palestinians, who wish all Jews were dead. They don't. They do what they can to spare innocent life.
B. The Palestinians would slaughter the Israelis if their roles were reversed. They brainwash teenagers and make mentally challenged kids go blow themselves up on buses, hoping to butcher as many innocent women and children as possible.
Is the choice really that difficult for you? Saying Israel is clearly in the right here does not mean the entire nation is without blemish of any sort, nor does it many that there are no Palestinians anywhere who are good people. Whatever their blemishes may be, this is not a difficult choice. Israel is in the right.
Have you ever questioned any decision you've reached once you've reached it? Don't you think it's safe to finally admit there is a right and wrong side of the situation, and Israel is in the right (not to say they're purely, absolutely right in everything they've ever done, not to say they deserve every penny we give them). It should be the easiest thing in the world to admit that because of the value they place on human life, even the lives of people who hate them, Israel is in the right for valuing the lives of the innocent, and the Palestinians are in the wrong for slaughtering them.
Yes, they could simply push the Palestinians outside of their claimed borders. Pick a country like Syria, and force them over the border, not giving a damn what happens to them when they get there.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChumpDumper
One practice is worse than the other.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thompson
Doesn't change my opinion that they can both get fucked.
Is Israel infallible in your eyes?
Have they ever done anything wrong?