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Re: NYT: Repugs property tax cuts strangling TX schools
I have no idea what academic competitions you're talking about but why is it we feel the need to furnish our kids with laptops by 6th grade yet they can't do an academic competition over the internet? Its just as educational slicing a virtual frog up (strongly disagree) but we can't use that tech to save money? It seems to be mainly for novelty use. Around here the activities seem to involve more and more traveling all the time, be it sports or theatre.
What one person perceives as "not directly related" may be completely off the wall to another.
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Re: NYT: Repugs property tax cuts strangling TX schools
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Nbadan
Ok. Thanks for all the solutions you brought to the discussion.:rolleyes
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Re: NYT: Repugs property tax cuts strangling TX schools
Quote:
Originally Posted by
RandomGuy
(winces)
What you have left out of your analysis:
1) I assume that you want hallways, lunchrooms, and gynasiums, and bathrooms for the children. Factor that in, because it is directly related to the ability to move children to the bathrooms etc. To keep track of enrolled students, vaccinations, attendence etc, one needs at least a little office space for administration as well. Unless of course you want teachers doing all of this, you need this to keep the teachers teaching.
2) We can also assume that for any given school two janitors to take out the trash are needed. Unless you want the teachers to take time away from teaching to take out trash, clean up vomit, and scrub the toilets for the little dears.
3) Now, in order to get kids to the school so that you can teach them in the first place, you need buses and drivers. Unless you want the teachers doing this.
4) Those classrooms, if you want niceties like water and electricity also require utilities.
5) If you want the teachers to be filling out the W-4's, hiring and firing, as opposed to teaching you also need accounting clerks, and HR, and etc, etc, etc.
All of this might not be directly related to teaching, but unless you want your teachers doing everything but teaching, all of this seemingly non-related activity suddenly becomes a lot more important.
Do you think that teachers can teach effectively if they have to prepare food, mop hallways, conduct repairs, make hiring and firing decisions, take out the trash, track truancy, drive kids to and from school, and do payroll?
What a fucking dumbass.
I used class A office space as a comparison. Maintenance, security, heat and a/c, water, janitorial, restrooms, toilet paper, landscaping, parking lot security, etc. is all provided for one flat price in beautiful modern buildings in prime locations. Schools should actually cost much less.
Only thing not included is a lunch room. Big fucking deal.
Most INTELLIGENT people got that it was a comparison of what the private sector routinely provides for that price.
And yes, I left out overhead. Most INTELLIGENT posters realized that there was still an obscene amount of money remaining for random overhead, which is EXACTLY where most of our education dollars go...useless overhead.
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Re: NYT: Repugs property tax cuts strangling TX schools
I understand what you're saying sickdsm. I don't think they have laptops for any students, just shared desktops at school. If there are, then yeah that's not very logical. My main issue is that the state is cutting budget instead of reviewing finances, much like you said. But for some reason the teachers must face the consequences. They aren't the ones that make decisions on school equipment. Honestly, I'd like to know who does. Here's a ridiculous example:
As I was saying earlier, FWISD will not fund my mother's school (Morningside Middle School) for new ink cartridges for the printers. FWISD decided it was best to send printers of one specific brand to the school. Now the district has decided that this model is faulty in some cases, thus further spending on them is illogical (aka buying more ink). Although many printers are functional and continue to be, their logic is to treat the printers as a complete loss.
...come on.
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Re: NYT: Repugs property tax cuts strangling TX schools
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Halberto
I understand what you're saying sickdsm. I don't think they have laptops for any students, just shared desktops at school. If there are, then yeah that's not very logical. My main issue is that the state is cutting budget instead of reviewing finances, much like you said. But for some reason the teachers must face the consequences. They aren't the ones that make decisions on school equipment. Honestly, I'd like to know who does. Here's a ridiculous example:
As I was saying earlier, FWISD will not fund my mother's school (Morningside Middle School) for new ink cartridges for the printers. FWISD decided it was best to send printers of one specific brand to the school. Now the district has decided that this model is faulty in some cases, thus further spending on them is illogical (aka buying more ink). Although many printers are functional and continue to be, their logic is to treat the printers as a complete loss.
...come on.
The teachers face the consequences because they get fucked over by their bloat heavy, incompetent, school district management. Put the blame where it belongs.
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Re: NYT: Repugs property tax cuts strangling TX schools
Good... schools should be cut... 3/4 of people aren't worth the education anyway...
What good does teaching HS math to someone who will only be able to understand it at a 6th grade level do anyway?
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Re: NYT: Repugs property tax cuts strangling TX schools
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Halberto
I understand what you're saying sickdsm. I don't think they have laptops for any students, just shared desktops at school. If there are, then yeah that's not very logical. My main issue is that the state is cutting budget instead of reviewing finances, much like you said. But for some reason the teachers must face the consequences. They aren't the ones that make decisions on school equipment. Honestly, I'd like to know who does. Here's a ridiculous example:
As I was saying earlier, FWISD will not fund my mother's school (Morningside Middle School) for new ink cartridges for the printers. FWISD decided it was best to send printers of one specific brand to the school. Now the district has decided that this model is faulty in some cases, thus further spending on them is illogical (aka buying more ink). Although many printers are functional and continue to be, their logic is to treat the printers as a complete loss.
...come on.
That's a great point, Halberto. If citizens had any idea of how the money is spent, they'd be screaming like mashed cats. There's a real cottage industry out there that caters specifically to school systems. I remember wanting to use some of my annual budget for some audio gear for my classroom. I was instructed to order it from an approved vendor's catalog. $300 for a portable cassette player! Instead, I went to Best Buy and bought a decent boom box for $80.
I wonder just how hard the purchasing personnel work in some of these larger districts? We probably don't want to know what they paid for those printers in your example.:depressed
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Re: NYT: Repugs property tax cuts strangling TX schools
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Sec24Row7
Good... schools should be cut... 3/4 of people aren't worth the education anyway...
What good does teaching HS math to someone who will only be able to understand it at a 6th grade level do anyway?
I totally agree. The current "college prep" school system is totally missing the needs of at least half the students. They simply find it irrelevant and either disrupt it or drop out.
We really need a three track high school system...
One system for the kids that are there to work hard, learn and try to get ahead in life.
One for the kids determined to be losers and start teaching them as early teens manual work skills like how to use tools safely and how to flip burgers, plus life skills like credit management, family planning, etc.
One for the kids that wise up and decide they don't want to be stupid all their life where they can "catch back up" and get back into the fast track "smart" program no matter what age they are.
The system needs to quit wasting money trying to pound square pegs through round holes.
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Re: NYT: Repugs property tax cuts strangling TX schools
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CosmicCowboy
I totally agree. The current "college prep" school system is totally missing the needs of at least half the students. They simply find it irrelevant and either disrupt it or drop out.
We really need a three track high school system...
One system for the kids that are there to work hard, learn and try to get ahead in life.
One for the kids determined to be losers and start teaching them as early teens manual work skills like how to use tools safely and how to flip burgers, plus life skills like credit management, family planning, etc.
One for the kids that wise up and decide they don't want to be stupid all their life where they can "catch back up" and get back into the fast track "smart" program no matter what age they are.
The system needs to quit wasting money trying to pound square pegs through round holes.
I acutally agree with this.. of course it's going to cost lots of money...
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Re: NYT: Repugs property tax cuts strangling TX schools
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Originally Posted by
George Gervin's Afro
I acutally agree with this.. of course it's going to cost lots of money...
We did this pretty well prior to the 80's.
Some school districts still do this pretty well today (Birdville ISD).
http://schools.birdvilleschools.net/...e/default.asp#
And yeah...it costs boatloads of cash.
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Re: NYT: Repugs property tax cuts strangling TX schools
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CosmicCowboy
I totally agree. The current "college prep" school system is totally missing the needs of at least half the students. They simply find it irrelevant and either disrupt it or drop out.
We really need a three track high school system...
One system for the kids that are there to work hard, learn and try to get ahead in life.
One for the kids determined to be losers and start teaching them as early teens manual work skills like how to use tools safely and how to flip burgers, plus life skills like credit management, family planning, etc.
One for the kids that wise up and decide they don't want to be stupid all their life where they can "catch back up" and get back into the fast track "smart" program no matter what age they are.
The system needs to quit wasting money trying to pound square pegs through round holes.
:tu
Definitely agree.
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Re: NYT: Repugs property tax cuts strangling TX schools
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CosmicCowboy
Good...the school districts needed a wakeup call. Average district in Texas spends 80% of their money on shit not directly related to education.
How much of that is related to sports, ie football? :)
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Re: NYT: Repugs property tax cuts strangling TX schools
Quote:
Originally Posted by
LnGrrrR
How much of that is related to sports, ie football? :)
Probably quite a bit. School districts have no problems coughing up tens of millions of dollars for new football stadiums.
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Re: NYT: Repugs property tax cuts strangling TX schools
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CosmicCowboy
I agree. there is NO relationship between dollars spent and educational delivered.
Well, there's SOME correlation I'm assuming. For instance, a thousand dollars is probably better than no dollars.
The question is more liekly when does money stop having an impact (the tipping point).
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Re: NYT: Repugs property tax cuts strangling TX schools
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TeyshaBlue
I'll throw an idea out there....consolidate school districts.
The impact would be almost immediate. When I was teaching, I spent a fair amount of time in some small, West Texas schools. I taught in a small school system East of Lubbock on hwy 114. You could travel 26 miles on that highway and travel through 4 seperate school districts...each of which had enrollment < 1200 for the entire district! Yet, you had 4 completely separate administrative systems...bus maintenance facilities....quadruply duplicated physical plants....and this is the norm for rural Texas.
That's happening here in Hawaii. The state doesn't have money to provide for many schools it seems... they have something called "Furlough Friday" where the first Friday of the year kids get off, to save money on teacher salaries IIRC.
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Re: NYT: Repugs property tax cuts strangling TX schools
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TeyshaBlue
I'll throw an idea out there....consolidate school districts.
The impact would be almost immediate. When I was teaching, I spent a fair amount of time in some small, West Texas schools. I taught in a small school system East of Lubbock on hwy 114. You could travel 26 miles on that highway and travel through 4 seperate school districts...each of which had enrollment < 1200 for the entire district! Yet, you had 4 completely separate administrative systems...bus maintenance facilities....quadruply duplicated physical plants....and this is the norm for rural Texas.
I remember hearing that some state rep introduced a bill that would do exactly that. His plan was one school district per county.
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Re: NYT: Repugs property tax cuts strangling TX schools
I see people being "outraged" whenever any aspect of the school system is cut, regardless of its impact.
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Re: NYT: Repugs property tax cuts strangling TX schools
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CosmicCowboy
I totally agree. The current "college prep" school system is totally missing the needs of at least half the students. They simply find it irrelevant and either disrupt it or drop out.
We really need a three track high school system...
One system for the kids that are there to work hard, learn and try to get ahead in life.
One for the kids determined to be losers and start teaching them as early teens manual work skills like how to use tools safely and how to flip burgers, plus life skills like credit management, family planning, etc.
One for the kids that wise up and decide they don't want to be stupid all their life where they can "catch back up" and get back into the fast track "smart" program no matter what age they are.
The system needs to quit wasting money trying to pound square pegs through round holes.
Pretty much agree with most of what you say other than calling non-college students losers and teaching them to flip burgers. Food is so mechanized now that there's no need for any kind of training there. McDonald's and their assembly-line model for food ended that. Plumbing, auto shop, sheet metal, electric work, truck driving... these are the kind of things that our schools would do well to teach those who are currently slipping through the cracks.
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Re: NYT: Repugs property tax cuts strangling TX schools
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TeyshaBlue
That's a great point, Halberto. If citizens had any idea of how the money is spent, they'd be screaming like mashed cats. There's a real cottage industry out there that caters specifically to school systems. I remember wanting to use some of my annual budget for some audio gear for my classroom. I was instructed to order it from an approved vendor's catalog. $300 for a portable cassette player! Instead, I went to Best Buy and bought a decent boom box for $80.
I wonder just how hard the purchasing personnel work in some of these larger districts? We probably don't want to know what they paid for those printers in your example.:depressed
Completely agree...contractors rip off the school districts because they pay..
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Re: NYT: Repugs property tax cuts strangling TX schools
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TeyshaBlue
Ok. Thanks for all the solutions you brought to the discussion.:rolleyes
???
I've posted my thoughts in several previous education threads.
1. No child left behind is a joke. It holds every kid behind because teachers have to cater to the most needy, all the time.....and inclusion? really? insecurity discipline problems meet sub-pop in every class? I honestly believe that public schools are being set up for failure....the standard is set so unrealistically high, according to NCLB, almost every school in TX and the US will not be meeting AYP by 2014..that's big money to school districts...
....many public schools would be doing good to very good if you did not hold kids with special needs to unrealistic standards...and it's gonna get worse... pretty soon TX will require students from Mexico who speak no English to count against schools when they fail the TAKS because they don't read or understand English.....cooking the numbers indeed....
Perry and his greedy cronies can't wait to get a cut of that education money pie, fuck the kids and their best interest...cook the books!
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Re: NYT: Repugs property tax cuts strangling TX schools
Quote:
Originally Posted by
baseline bum
Pretty much agree with most of what you say other than calling non-college students losers and teaching them to flip burgers. Food is so mechanized now that there's no need for any kind of training there. McDonald's and their assembly-line model for food ended that. Plumbing, auto shop, sheet metal, electric work, truck driving... these are the kind of things that our schools would do well to teach those who are currently slipping through the cracks.
I was ready to say the same thing bum but i stopped when i realized he called them losers, not non college students. I had to agree with him when i realized that. A lot of kids that don't go to school are not losers, just as the same a high number of college kids and graduates at that ARE the losers i think he's describing.
Does the role of High School need to be to prepare you for a trade or to educate as much as possible? We might be better off in society to teach more shop classes but do we owe ourselves to try to push more of the three R's? I would have loved a class on electronics, had I had a class that touched on that, i probably would have went on for EE. A lot of students DON'T know what they want to do or what they are good at for at least a few years after graduating HS. I think the military could serve a more useful purpose that role.
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Re: NYT: Repugs property tax cuts strangling TX schools
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Nbadan
???
I've posted my thoughts in several previous education threads.
1. No child left behind is a joke. It holds every kid behind because teachers have to cater to the most needy, all the time.....and inclusion? really? insecurity discipline problems meet sub-pop in every class? I honestly believe that public schools are being set up for failure....the standard is set so unrealistically high, according to NCLB, almost every school in TX and the US will not be meeting AYP by 2014..that's big money to school districts...
....many public schools would be doing good to very good if you did not hold kids with special needs to unrealistic standards...and it's gonna get worse... pretty soon TX will require students from Mexico who speak no English to count against schools when they fail the TAKS because they don't read or understand English.....cooking the numbers indeed....
Perry and his greedy cronies can't wait to get a cut of that education money pie, fuck the kids and their best interest...cook the books!
I felt that when I went to school well before NCLB. It got boring fast. 5-9 grades I feel are important in developing that hunger for education.
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Re: NYT: Repugs property tax cuts strangling TX schools
Quote:
Originally Posted by
sickdsm
I felt that when I went to school well before NCLB. It got boring fast. 5-9 grades I feel are important in developing that hunger for education.
I agree...many teachers want to stick with old ways that don't work anymore...classrooms should become much more technologically efficient and cater to how kids like to learn today, with immediate feedback, rather than spending money on old school learning...namely, over-priced boring textbooks and a specialists for everything...
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Re: NYT: Repugs property tax cuts strangling TX schools
Quote:
Originally Posted by
sickdsm
I felt that when I went to school well before NCLB. It got boring fast. 5-9 grades I feel are important in developing that hunger for education.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Nbadan
I agree...many teachers want to stick with old ways that don't work anymore...classrooms should become much more technologically efficient and cater to how kids like to learn today, with immediate feedback, rather than spending money on old school learning...namely, over-priced boring textbooks and a specialists for everything...
Schools would do really well to stop concentrating so much on rote memorization, formulas, and long homework assignments that are just drills and don't require much in the way of thought. This is especially true in the early years when children tend to have a more physical and spatial than logical mindset. Though I think the straight logic way of teaching math at the high school level is pretty ridiculous too. I think requiring teachers to take more education classes and only a lite version of their major is partly responsible for that though. It's hard to make others see math as more than just numbers and formulas if you yourself haven't taken the difficult classes on group theory, algebraic topology, analysis in metric spaces and/or at least n-dimensional Euclidean spaces, and so on that really build strong spatial intuition that could be imparted to young minds. It's amazing how much a clear diagram can simplify a lot of very complex mathematical ideas, even in extremely abstract settings.
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Re: NYT: Repugs property tax cuts strangling TX schools
Quote:
It's hard to make others see math as more than just numbers and formulas if you yourself haven't taken the difficult classes on group theory, algebraic topology, analysis in metric spaces and/or at least n-dimensional Euclidean spaces, and so on that really build strong spatial intuition that could be imparted to young minds. It's amazing how much a clear diagram can simplify a lot of very complex mathematical ideas, even in extremely abstract settings.
given the difference in pay between a teacher and a physicists or engineer...I don't know why anyone who has taken more than differential equations 2 would ever teach, especially because high school math teachers already must take more math than 95% of all jobs...
