"Christian" bubbas at it again: legal to kill doctors who perform abortions

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Originally Posted by ElNono

I really don't understand why that's needed, to be honest. Doesn't that fall within personal defense?

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I think some state laws still don't recognize the death of a fetus as a killing. With abortion acceptable, they didn't kill life or it is argued in court that life wasn't threatened to justify defense, therefore defense laws can not always be applied.

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Originally Posted by ElNono

Cardiovascular diseases have killed more life than Hitler...
Do you really want the government to tell you what your diet should be?

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Death is the forgone conclusion of life. When in a natural way, do you want them to dictate?

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Originally Posted by Wild Cobra

I think some state laws still don't recognize the death of a fetus as a killing. With abortion acceptable, they didn't kill life or it is argued in court that life wasn't threatened to justify defense, therefore defense laws can not always be applied.

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They don't have to recognize anything. This law is not about the death of the fetus, but about using deadly force to defend it. Which is already permissible on a personal defense basis.

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Originally Posted by Wild Cobra

Death is the forgone conclusion of life. When in a natural way, do you want them to dictate?

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Natural vs unnatural has nothing to do with it. I highly doubt you would be OK with an abortion process that removed the fetus from the host without damaging it, and then died 'naturally' since it couldn't self-sustain.

As far as abortion is concerned, I think the decision process is entirely in the right place: the host.

I don't know El...

I have heard plenty of times in the new where fetal deaths have occurred, and the perpetrator got off because it wasn't human yet. I don't have a problem with writing into law that a woman can protect her baby with deadly force, an act that may do no harm to her.

Battering for example. Is deadly for justifiable? A few bruised, etc. Is that life threatening to the woman that would justify defense with deadly force? However, this could easily kill the fetus. Maybe cause a spontaneous abortion (miscarriage.)

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Originally Posted by jack sommerset

Dude,...It's a human life. Around 50 million people in this country have abortions since 1973. Over 90 % of them had the "procedure" for selfish reasons. They admitted it. "I'm not ready for a kid" "I don't know who the dad is" "I was drunk" "He said he would pull out" "I have 2 years left and I get my bachelors" "I just got this job" "I'm not ready" I think it's safe to say there are 30-40 million of examples like this on why these mothers (glad you agree they are mothers) had the life terminated. I can't think of to many reason why anyone would want to abort a kid but forgetting to take birth control pill or I don't think it's my husbands baby should be one of the reasons.

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Good.

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I'm not cheerleading for any religious group, I get our country has killed innocent peeps durning wars and yes in alot of cases I am outraged by that. Our country gives me the power to voice my opinion and that opinion as silly as you may think it is says abortions is the murder of innocent life. I think it's straight up gangster shit killing most of these kids. Do I understand why some get abortions? Yes. Do I support everyones decisions on abortion? No. Do I think the laws should change on abortion. Yes. Do I know exactly what we should do? No. I know abortion have gotten out of control in this country. I think you even know they have.

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Youre entitled to your opinion, absolutely. Just dont be all surprised when nobody gives a fuck about it.

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If some congressmen wants to try to pass a law saying it's cool for the father to kill the doctor (throw mommy in there for shits and giggles), for killing his kid, I am all for it. That will never ever ever happen in a MILLION years but I like some of the messages it sends.

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Well, in that case, every time someone offends my personal beliefs about what constitutes life/death, Im just going to kill them and know the law will protect me.

Great idea.

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Originally Posted by Wild Cobra

I don't know El...

I have heard plenty of times in the new where fetal deaths have occurred, and the perpetrator got off because it wasn't human yet. I don't have a problem with writing into law that a woman can protect her baby with deadly force, an act that may do no harm to her.

Battering for example. Is deadly for justifiable? A few bruised, etc. Is that life threatening to the woman that would justify defense with deadly force? However, this could easily kill the fetus. Maybe cause a spontaneous abortion (miscarriage.)

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And that's exactly the problem with a law like this. A miscarriage can happen for a number of different reasons, including many that are entirely natural.
Good luck trying to prove it happened because of something specifically.

Do you really want to grant a license for killing to any woman that has a miscarriage? How are you going to prove that the killing was justified?

And battery is already a punishable crime. That you can't charge the guy with attempted murder or murder doesn't make it any less of a crime, and it's not what this law is trying to address either.

I will never understand conservative opposition to liberal's process of self extermination.

It's counterproductive to conservative causes to have any of those kids be born.

Contraception should be handed out in 7th grade... Kids should have to wade knee deep through condoms, sponges and pills to have unprotected sex.

You libs and your fight for human rights are really falling short on this topic. Surely you can find it in your cold little hearts to block most of the abortions happening today. Think about the fathers rights for a bit. I know a couple who divorced because the wifey had the abortion. The father wanted to keep the kid but mommy said no way, aborted and hubby moved out that day. She said she wanted a baby but then decided after she didn't.

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Originally Posted by jack sommerset

You libs and your fight for human rights are really falling short on this topic. Surely you can find it in your cold little hearts to block most of the abortions happening today. Think about the fathers rights for a bit. I know a couple who divorced because the wifey had the abortion. The father wanted to keep the kid but mommy said no way, aborted and hubby moved out that day. She said she wanted a baby but then decided after she didn't.

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So he should have killed her.

Problem solved.

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

So he should have killed her.

Problem solved.

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The abortion law should be changed to protect not only kids rights but the fathers rights in a case like this, don't u think or do u just want to say tough titty said the kitty and let her get away with murder?

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Originally Posted by jack sommerset

The abortion law should be changed to protect not only kids rights but the fathers rights in a case like this, don't u think or do u just want to say tough titty said the kitty and let her get away with murder?

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She's the one carrying the fetus, and taking all the risks during pregnancy (risks that might include her own death). So I have zero problems with the host being the one and only that makes that decision.

As far as I'm concerned, the father has zero rights on that kid until it's born, and the kid has zero rights too, being that's entirely dependent on the host.

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Originally Posted by ElNono

She's the one carrying the fetus, and taking all the risks during pregnancy (risks that might include her own death). So I have zero problems with the host being the one and only that makes that decision.

As far as I'm concerned, the father has zero rights on that kid until it's born, and the kid has zero rights too, being that's entirely dependent on the host.

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That's where its hypocritical, the guy should be able to swear off the baby the womb just like the woman can

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Originally Posted by jack sommerset

The abortion law should be changed to protect not only kids rights but the fathers rights in a case like this, don't u think or do u just want to say tough titty said the kitty and let her get away with murder?

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so you would kill the mom before she has a chance to abort

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Originally Posted by Trainwreck2100

That's where its hypocritical, the guy should be able to swear off the baby the womb just like the woman can

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Well, it wasn't the woman that chose to be the one hosting to the baby. Nature/God/Osiris/Whatever-you-believe-in decided for her.

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Originally Posted by ElNono

Well, it wasn't the woman that chose to be the one hosting to the baby. Nature/God/Osiris/Whatever-you-believe-in decided for her.

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Not the man's choice either, if you're not gonna punish a woman for being a woman how do you justify punishing a for being born a man

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Originally Posted by jack sommerset

The abortion law should be changed to protect not only kids rights but the fathers rights in a case like this, don't u think or do u just want to say tough titty said the kitty and let her get away with murder?

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More like tough titty it's not murder.

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Originally Posted by Trainwreck2100

Not the man's choice either, if you're not gonna punish a woman for being a woman how do you justify punishing a for being born a man

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I'm not punishing anybody. I didn't make the decision. Doesn't change the fact that the woman is the one taking all the risk.

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Originally Posted by Trainwreck2100

Not the man's choice either, if you're not gonna punish a woman for being a woman how do you justify punishing a for being born a man

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in your opinion, what would be the best way to have an abortion if the mother was unwilling?

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Originally Posted by ElNono

I'm not punishing anybody. I didn't make the decision. Doesn't change the fact that the woman is the one taking all the risk.

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Never mind youre the guy I argued with for three days because of you're typo and I'm not wasting my time with that shit again. Though I'm sure by now your grasp of the english language is better

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Originally Posted by Blake

so you would kill the mom before she has a chance to abort

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No.

What I am saying is the law as it stands today needs too change. We know to much now just to let the senseless murder of all the babies die in vain. Educating the folks has not worked unless you think educating them is giving them directions to the butcher. Fathers right, doesn't exist. How fucking crazy is this. A guy says he doesn't want the kid for whatever reason but if the girl keeps it that guy is paying his half by LAW. You get more shit for being a deadbeat dad from society then a mother killing her little one. Crazy!!!!! For fucks sake people, we are past girls in the alley getting hangers stuck up there fuckholes to scrap out the kids because Uncle Vinny raped her. It' s 2011, it can't be a women can do whatever she wants when it comes to abortions. I am very surprised some of you have taken this hard stance. It's time to re-visit the law and make some changes.

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Originally Posted by jack sommerset

For fucks sake people, we are past girls in the alley getting hangers stuck up there fuckholes to scrap out the kids

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You want to go back to that.

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Originally Posted by jack sommerset

No.

What I am saying is the law as it stands today needs too change. We know to much now just to let the senseless murder of all the babies die in vain. Educating the folks has not worked unless you think educating them is giving them directions to the butcher. Fathers right, doesn't exist. How fucking crazy is this. A guy says he doesn't want the kid for whatever reason but if the girl keeps it that guy is paying his half by LAW. You get more shit for being a deadbeat dad from society then a mother killing her little one. Crazy!!!!! For fucks sake people, we are past girls in the alley getting hangers stuck up there fuckholes to scrap out the kids because Uncle Vinny raped her. It' s 2011, it can't be a women can do whatever she wants when it comes to abortions. I am very surprised some of you have taken this hard stance. It's time to re-visit the law and make some changes.

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what kind of law would you propose?

what's your stance on the morning after pill?

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Originally Posted by Trainwreck2100

Never mind youre the guy I argued with for three days because of you're typo and I'm not wasting my time with that shit again. Though I'm sure by now your grasp of the english language is better

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your :lol

It's all good. I'm not going to berate you for having an opinion, tbh.
I just don't really agree with that viewpoint, that's all.

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Originally Posted by jack sommerset

I am very surprised some of you have taken this hard stance.

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Uh? A hard stance to me would be that neither the mother or the father gets to choose.

I have an admittedly poor understanding of political science.

Given this, what's the deal with the morning-after pill? How quickly can sperm fertilize an egg? I know people who consider abortion to be evil once human life is being created (aka sperm has fertilized egg).

I've also heard people argue condoms should be outlawed because it serves the same purpose as abortion - it blocks the creation of life during sex. I would say no human life has been terminated as a result of using a condom.