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Average Americans take on the budget problem.
Unsurprisingly, most Americans appear to be realistic about what needs to be done. Yet another example of the disconnect between Congress and what any reasonable grown up would do.
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About 800 Americans across the country were asked their opinions on how to solve the U.S. budget deficit. The results did make a substantial dent in the debt.
http://marketplace.publicradio.org/d...udget-deficit/
TEXT OF INTERVIEW
STEVE CHIOTAKIS: Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner goes before the Senate Banking Committee today to talk about the president's 2012 budget proposal. Maybe politicians would do better to leave the budget up to more average folk. Because when presented with the budget in some detail, most respondents of a University of Maryland study were able to reduce the deficit.
Researcher Steven Kull heads up Maryland's Program for Public Consultation. Thanks for being with us.
STEVE KULL: My pleasure.
CHIOTAKIS: You asked everyday people to solve the budget deficit, which isn't an easy task. What did you find?
KULL: It was really quite extraordinary. We presented a representative sample of Americans -- about 800 Americans -- the federal budget broken down into 31 areas and said, you can increase or decrease it as you see fit. And they were able to substantially cut the spending levels by about $146 billion. We also went through revenues, income taxes, corporate taxes, and they did actually increase revenues by, on average, $292 billion. So they did make a substantial dent in the budget deficit.
CHIOTAKIS: Give us specifics. You mentioned some taxes went up and a lot of spending went down. What kind of solutions did people come up with?
KULL: Well the biggest cut that they made was to defense spending, which they cut just over $100 billion. They also cut intelligence, the war in Iraq and Afghanistan. They cut federal highways, they cut the space program, they cut veterans' benefits. Those were the biggest areas of cuts. They actually increased a few areas, too: job training, the environment, education.
CHIOTAKIS: What about politics? Any deference toward politics in this?
KULL: It's not really what you'd expect. The Independents did the best -- they made the biggest cuts and they made the biggest increases. That was followed by the Democrats. And the Republicans had the least cuts in spending and the least increases in taxes.
CHIOTAKIS: Why is it so tough for people in Washington to do this, to make this work?
KULL: Within Washington, there's such a battle between all these forces. But if you give the average American time to just sit down, say OK, here's the problem, people can think in a holistic way. And they don't just think in terms of their own interests. They really were thinking about what's really necessary for the country as a whole.
CHIOTAKIS: Steven Kull, director of the Program for Public Consultation at the University of Maryland. Thank you.
KULL: You're welcome.
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Here is a bit more of a breakdown in a different article:
http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/Column...icit-Cuts.aspx
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Among the most notable results of the exercise:
On average, respondents cut spending and raised taxes, regardless of party affiliation
- Overall, the voters in the study cut the hypothetical 2015 budget deficit by 70 percent, with one third of the reduction ($145 billion) coming from spending cuts and two thirds ($291 billion) from revenue hikes. According to stereotype, Democrats should have cut spending the least and Republicans the most, with independents somewhere in between. But that’s not how it played out.
- Republicans actually cut spending the least ($100 billion).
- Democrats cut spending far more than Republicans ($157 billion).
- Independents cut more than either ($195 billion).
- On average, residents of blue districts cut spending more than residents of red districts ($153 billion to $141 billion).
There was broad agreement on what programs to cut, what to increase and what to hold constant. Presented with 31 categories in the discretionary budget, members of both parties and independents agreed on how to handle 22.
- All agreed, for example, to cut funding for defense, the State Department and the highway system.
- All agreed to increase job training, education and foreign humanitarian assistance.
- Spending decisions split along party lines on categories that included homeland security (only Republicans favored an increase) and mass transit (only Republicans wanted a reduction).
People favored raising taxes on the rich. Most polls find that Americans prefer to shrink the deficit by cutting spending rather than raising taxes. When actually presented with realistic budget choices, however, participants in the study (even Republicans) were willing to raise taxes. More than 90 percent of respondents included tax hikes in their budget plans, mostly in the form of higher effective tax rates on households with incomes over $100,000. Once again, the breakdown defied expectations.
- While Democrats were most inclined to raise individual income taxes (on average they’d raise $178 billion), Republicans and strong Tea Party sympathizers were also willing to lift income taxes significantly ($125 billion and $105 billion, respectively).
- While respondents tended to support raising income taxes on people in higher tax brackets than their own, they were surprisingly willing to accept an increase in their own bracket as well.
- Increasing payroll taxes on high wage earners was the most popular tactic for closing the Social Security funding gap.
Why are the results of this study so at odds with the results of most polls? The key distinction seems to be the information at hand for the respondents. As noted by my Fiscal Times colleague Bruce Bartlett, most voters know little about government spending. They tend to underestimate defense spending (five times the amount any other country spends), for example, and grossly overestimate the amount going to foreign aid (about 1 percent). Asked to make choices with realistic budget information at hand, it’s interesting that the average voter in the Maryland study arrived at a solution closer to the National Commission’s and Center for Policy Priority bipartisan plans than their own political party’s platform.
Of course it is still the largely uninformed voters that lawmakers have to answer to on Election Day. Still, it’s hard not to feel somewhat cheered by the results of this study. Congress may be a polarized place on fiscal policy. But America, given the right information, doesn’t have to be.
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Re: Average Americans take on the budget problem.
No mention of entitlement cuts. Wonder if that was even given to the participants as an option.
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Re: Average Americans take on the budget problem.
oops
"they cut federal highways, they cut the space program, they cut veterans' benefits. Those were the biggest areas of cuts."
space program, ok, at least temporarily, but the other two? I'm flummoxed.
The IH system is a national treasure (thanks to that raging socialist/pro-union Eisenhower) whose expansion and maintenance is subcontracted to small local businesses.
The "disconnect" between DC and non-DC is bought and paid for by UCA/VRWC.
And there's simply no way to reconnect that disconnect, because elections don't count for shit.
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Re: Average Americans take on the budget problem.
Raising taxes has to be an option along with spending cuts.
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Re: Average Americans take on the budget problem.
Average Americans don't need votes...
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Re: Average Americans take on the budget problem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
coyotes_geek
No mention of entitlement cuts. Wonder if that was even given to the participants as an option.
It was, I believe.
Below is the 58 page pdf file of the study.
http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pi..._Feb11_rpt.pdf
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Re: Average Americans take on the budget problem.
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Originally Posted by
RandomGuy
I just skimmed the first couple of pages, but on pages 2 & 3 it looks like what they did was separate discretionary spending from SS & M. For discretionary, respondants got to pick their own cuts & taxes. For SS, and separately for M, they were just given some different option packages and could vote "acceptable", "tolerable" or "not tolerable" on each. The report gives and explaination why they had to do it that way, and the reasons they give make sense to me. But it does create a difficult situation in trying to interpret results when respondents could only offer quantitative opinions on the discretionary spending items, and the only 800lb gorilla in the discretionary budget is defense.
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Re: Average Americans take on the budget problem.
"discretionary budget is defense."
defense and "national security" are so sacred, blessed and protected by the MIC priests, as to be non-discretionary (uncuttable).
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Re: Average Americans take on the budget problem.
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People favored raising taxes on the rich. Most polls find that Americans prefer to shrink the deficit by cutting spending rather than raising taxes. When actually presented with realistic budget choices, however, participants in the study (even Republicans) were willing to raise taxes. More than 90 percent of respondents included tax hikes in their budget plans, mostly in the form of higher effective tax rates on households with incomes over $100,000.
This is awful and indicates to me that socialism and wealth re-distribution has infected our once proud countrymen. Don't these people understand that raising taxes on the rich is like raising taxes on themselves once they find the Entrepreneurial Spirit and become successful as well?
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Re: Average Americans take on the budget problem.
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Originally Posted by
ElNono
Average Americans don't need votes...
Freedom of speech costs money.
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Re: Average Americans take on the budget problem.
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Originally Posted by
Stringer_Bell
This is awful and indicates to me that socialism and wealth re-distribution has infected our once proud countrymen. Don't these people understand that raising taxes on the rich is like raising taxes on themselves once they find the Entrepreneurial Spirit and become successful as well?
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/pict...pictureid=1520
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Re: Average Americans take on the budget problem.
That's a Stringer_Bell speciality. He does it well.
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Re: Average Americans take on the budget problem.
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Originally Posted by
Winehole23
That's a Stringer_Bell speciality. He does it well.
Yes, he does.
I think he flips a coin and picks whether to sacasm or post a real opinion.
Entertaining to ferret out which is which.
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Re: Average Americans take on the budget problem.
this was supposed to be how democracy was going to work.
the people in congress are supposed to be "representative" of the average american.
heh.
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Re: Average Americans take on the budget problem.
"democracy was going to work."
The Repugs and conservatives, with passive complacency by the Dems, have broken the political system, and they aren't finished yet. eg, Wisconsin's gov is during Kock Bros bidding by killing union labor, aided by the economy destroyed by the financial sector.
Cheer up, the war of the wealthy on the non-wealthy isn't over yet, it's unstoppable, and unwinnable by the non-wealthy.
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Re: Average Americans take on the budget problem.
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Originally Posted by
greyforest
this was supposed to be how democracy was going to work.
the people in congress are supposed to be "representative" of the average american.
heh.
Democracy does work - the representatives give us exactly what we want.
The people clammer for more public spending and less taxation; and that's what we get. We reelect congressmen who bring home the pork. People in the study were willing to cut defense, but were they asked to close a base in their home town? People raised taxes, from what I can tell, mostly on those who make more than themselves. They would cut highway spending, but would they allow a bridge near their home to crumble, or would they demand Congress fix it?
This democracy is failing economically for exactly the reason De Toqueville predicted it would.
The government should have been limited in its scope and spread; never giving the people the power to direct it to get in over our collective heads.
Too late.
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Re: Average Americans take on the budget problem.
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Originally Posted by
boutons_deux
"democracy was going to work."
The Repugs and conservatives, with passive complacency by the Dems, have broken the political system, and they aren't finished yet. eg, Wisconsin's gov is during Kock Bros bidding by killing union labor, aided by the economy destroyed by the financial sector.
Cheer up, the war of the wealthy on the non-wealthy isn't over yet, it's unstoppable, and unwinnable by the non-wealthy.
I live in a small town in Pa. Through years of contractual raises and union control, a kindergarten teacher, just out of college, beginning in 2014, will make $80,000, have a $200 deductible medical plan for herself and her family, with no premium contribution, as well as a guaranteed pension at 90% of her salary if she works just 30 years! Oh, yeah, and three months in the summer, fall, spring and Christmas breaks, as well as three weeks sick leave (accumulates and paid back) each year.
The problem is NOT what is going on in Wisconson right now. This has gotten bat-shit crazy. Public employees should have NEVER been given the right to collectively bargain. Even FDR recognized this very simple to understand fact.
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Re: Average Americans take on the budget problem.
"representatives give us exactly what we want."
You Lie
Congress gives the corps and capitalists exactly what they want, while getting their fat back scratched in return.
Citizens are disenfranchised, and the extreme radical VRWC-selected SCOTUS has increased the disenfranchisement towards totality with Citizens United.
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Re: Average Americans take on the budget problem.
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Originally Posted by
101A
People raised taxes, from what I can tell, mostly on those who make more than themselves.
As noted in another thread, the majority of income and wealth in this country goes to a vanishingly small minority, who could, if they collectively chose, retire the entire federal debt and still have money left over.
I see little problem in increasing the overall burden of running the country to those who are benefitting most from our form of government and market system.
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Re: Average Americans take on the budget problem.
right-wingers here always like to fail to mention that nearly all the deficit now and for the next 10 years is due to Repug tax cuts, Repugs bogus/botched wars, and the Banksters' Great Depression.
NOT due to medicare, medicaid, unions, teachers, Welfare Queens, illegal immigrants, abortions, socialism, etc, etc, blah blah blah.
Soc Sec has been raided by the govt to cover deficits. That's not SS fault, and not SS payers' fault.
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Re: Average Americans take on the budget problem.
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Originally Posted by
RandomGuy
As noted in another thread, the majority of income and wealth in this country goes to a vanishingly small minority, who could, if they collectively chose, retire the entire federal debt and still have money left over.
I see little problem in increasing the overall burden of running the country to those who are benefitting most from our form of government and market system.
People whose combined wealth is over $13,000,000,000,000?
Really?
Show me.
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Re: Average Americans take on the budget problem.
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Originally Posted by
boutons_deux
right-wingers here always like to fail to mention that nearly all the deficit now and for the next 10 years is due to Repug tax cuts, Repugs bogus/botched wars, and the Banksters' Great Depression.
NOT due to medicare, medicaid, unions, teachers, Welfare Queens, illegal immigrants, abortions, socialism, etc, etc, blah blah blah.
Soc Sec has been raided by the govt to cover deficits. That's not SS fault, and not SS payers' fault.
That's like saying people's burdensome personal debt is due to the fact that they don't earn enough, rather than they buy things they cannot afford.
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Re: Average Americans take on the budget problem.
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Originally Posted by
101A
People whose combined wealth is over $13,000,000,000,000?
Really?
Show me.
(below copied and pasted from other thread)
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Originally Posted by
2centsworth
I'm not going to disagree that there is a huge concentration of wealth. However, I will disagree that those wealthy people could ever pay off the national debt. Every single American, rich and poor, could put every dollar we have in a bucket and we still would not have enough. [emphasis mine-RG]
nevertheless, I'm not so worried about what others have, as I am more worried about what I have and the opportunities to grow what I have.
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Originally Posted by wikipedia entry
In addition, wealth is unequally distributed with the wealthiest 25% of US households owning 87% ($54.2 trillion, in 2009)[2] of the wealth in the United States.[3][4]
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The Outstanding Public Debt as of 16 Feb 2011 at 07:26:21 PM GMT is:
($14.1Tr)
http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/
Care to try that again? :D
(end copy paste, begin edit to add in links from wikipedia entry to see what the claims were based on)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wealth_..._United_States
1.^ a b c d e f "US Federal Reserve on wealth distribution in the United States". http://www.federalreserve.gov/pubs/o...on.2001.10.pdf. Retrieved 2006-07-12.
2.^ a b "Americans' net worth up for 3rd straight quarter". U.S. Federal Reserve. 2010-03-11. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100311/...i/us_net_worth. Retrieved 2010-03-11. [dead link]
3.^ a b c d e f Growing Wealth, Inequality, and Housing in the United States. Zhu Xiao Di. Feb. 2007. Joint Center for Housing Studies.
4.^ Wealth Inequality: Data and Models. Marc Cagetti and Mariacristina De Nardi. Aug. 2005. Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago.
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Re: Average Americans take on the budget problem.
Here is something a bit better:
Current household balance sheet from the Fed, as of 3Q 2010
http://www.federalreserve.gov/releas...rent/z1r-5.pdf
(edit)
Seems wikipedia entry could have been worded better.
54.891Tr = net household worth of US
87% of that would be 47Tr.
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Re: Average Americans take on the budget problem.
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Originally Posted by
101A
The problem is NOT what is going on in Wisconson right now. This has gotten bat-shit crazy. Public employees should have NEVER been given the right to collectively bargain. Even FDR recognized this very simple to understand fact.
How could you get rid of that without severely impacting freedom/liberty?
Do you consider it as a bottom-level collusion?
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Re: Average Americans take on the budget problem.
Wealth and income are two different things.
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Re: Average Americans take on the budget problem.
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Originally Posted by
101A
That's like saying people's burdensome personal debt is due to the fact that they don't earn enough, rather than they buy things they cannot afford.
yes, the Repugs ran up the deficit by buying "things" the UCA can't afford: $1T in tax cuts for the super wealthy, bullshit wars, unfunded Part D, +$30B on NatSec (that again completely missed the turmoil in the M/E), bailing out Wall St, aiding and abetting the toxic mortgage crisis, etc, etc.
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Re: Average Americans take on the budget problem.
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Originally Posted by
Wild Obvious Cobra
Wealth and income are two different things.
Um, thanks?
Your point?
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Re: Average Americans take on the budget problem.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_inequality_metrics
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ncome_equality
Table 6: Distribution of income in the United States, 1982-2006
Income
Top 1 percent/ Next 19 percent /Bottom 80 percent
1982 12.8% 39.1% 48.1%
1988 16.6% 38.9% 44.5%
1991 15.7% 40.7% 43.7%
1994 14.4% 40.8% 44.9%
1997 16.6% 39.6% 43.8%
2000 20.0% 38.7% 41.4%
2003 17.0% 40.8% 42.2%
2006 21.3% 40.1% 38.6%
From Wolff (2010).
One out of every 5 dollars of income earned in the US went to that 1% in 2006, and the trend is for that share to get larger.
http://sociology.ucsc.edu/whorulesam...er/wealth.html
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Re: Average Americans take on the budget problem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
RandomGuy
Um, thanks?
Your point?
WC's basement twin is occasionally allowed a cup of coffee with a few rinds of stale toast. During these infrequent dining/daylight paroles his twin sometimes posts mischievously in his place.
His name is Mild Cobra. His metier? The bland and platitudinous.
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Re: Average Americans take on the budget problem.
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Originally Posted by
LnGrrrR
How could you get rid of that without severely impacting freedom/liberty?
Do you consider it as a bottom-level collusion?
Up until 1959 there was NO collective bargaining allowed for public sector employees. Mayor of New York allowed it in order to enhance his reelection support with unions; worked like a charm.
Unions exist in order to give workers collective voice to battle the greed of managment/ownership. In public employee there IS NO greed motive to counterbalance that of the union reps. It's not a fair fight; and the employees end up with disproportionate compensation packages. Civil servants used to be just that; public servants who traded some level of comparable private income for job security; now the govt. emplouyees get the security, PLUS higher incomes - greater benefits, etc....can't go on forever; Wisconsin is a natural development; eventually the taxpayers WILL get fed up, and wrench control back.
Look, again, at the compensation I described above for a TWENTY TWO YEAR OLD elementary school teacher! It is obscene, frankly.
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Re: Average Americans take on the budget problem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
101A
I live in a small town in Pa. Through years of contractual raises and union control, a kindergarten teacher, just out of college, beginning in 2014, will make $80,000, have a $200 deductible medical plan for herself and her family, with no premium contribution, as well as a guaranteed pension at 90% of her salary if she works just 30 years! Oh, yeah, and three months in the summer, fall, spring and Christmas breaks, as well as three weeks sick leave (accumulates and paid back) each year.
The problem is NOT what is going on in Wisconson right now. This has gotten bat-shit crazy. Public employees should have NEVER been given the right to collectively bargain. Even FDR recognized this very simple to understand fact.
:tu
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Re: Average Americans take on the budget problem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
101A
Up until 1959 there was NO collective bargaining allowed for public sector employees. Mayor of New York allowed it in order to enhance his reelection support with unions; worked like a charm.
Unions exist in order to give workers collective voice to battle the greed of managment/ownership. In public employee there IS NO greed motive to counterbalance that of the union reps. It's not a fair fight; and the employees end up with disproportionate compensation packages. Civil servants used to be just that; public servants who traded some level of comparable private income for job security; now the govt. emplouyees get the security, PLUS higher incomes - greater benefits, etc....can't go on forever; Wisconsin is a natural development; eventually the taxpayers WILL get fed up, and wrench control back.
Look, again, at the compensation I described above for a TWENTY TWO YEAR OLD elementary school teacher! It is obscene, frankly.
An unusual voice of sanity in the political forum...:toast
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Re: Average Americans take on the budget problem.
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Originally Posted by
CosmicCowboy
An unusual voice of sanity in the political forum...:toast
:lol
Just like the avg. spending per student in TX in 11,500, right?
:lmao
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Re: Average Americans take on the budget problem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
101A
I live in a small town in Pa. Through years of contractual raises and union control, a kindergarten teacher, just out of college, beginning in 2014, will make $80,000, have a $200 deductible medical plan for herself and her family, with no premium contribution, as well as a guaranteed pension at 90% of her salary if she works just 30 years! Oh, yeah, and three months in the summer, fall, spring and Christmas breaks, as well as three weeks sick leave (accumulates and paid back) each year.
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..the voice of sanity...
state is fifth on our comfort scale with average starting salaries of $34,976 and average overall salaries of $54,027.
Teacher Portal
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Re: Average Americans take on the budget problem.
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at the entry level, secondary school teachers make an average of $37,950,
Link
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Pennsylvania $34,976 $54,027 17.2% 5
Teacher Portal
Voice of sanity indeed.....too a wing-nut
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Re: Average Americans take on the budget problem.
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Originally Posted by
RandomGuy
Um, thanks?
Your point?
Why should I have to explain something so basic?
The collective wealth is very high. No doubt. However, to sell and pay off the debt, you need a buyer. It does no good to give the government assets. Who's going to buy them back to zero out the debt?
Should we sell our nation to China?
It's simple. There isn't enough annual income to buy the wealth to give to the government.
added---
To top it off, to put it all on the market in the same decade would lower the value so much because of supply and demand pricing, you probably still couldn't raise close to half of what's needed.
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Re: Average Americans take on the budget problem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
101A
I live in a small town in Pa. Through years of contractual raises and union control, a kindergarten teacher, just out of college, beginning in 2014, will make $80,000, have a $200 deductible medical plan for herself and her family, with no premium contribution, as well as a guaranteed pension at 90% of her salary if she works just 30 years! Oh, yeah, and three months in the summer, fall, spring and Christmas breaks, as well as three weeks sick leave (accumulates and paid back) each year.
Doubtful. Link/evidence please?
Even if true, this is an extreme exception that doesn't prove a thing. The notion that teacher's salaries are out of control is laughably absurd.
Union control, what is that exactly? How does that work?
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Re: Average Americans take on the budget problem.
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Re: Average Americans take on the budget problem.
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Originally Posted by
boutons_deux
Pretty good for a part time job.
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Re: Average Americans take on the budget problem.
The problem is the non-salary part of compensation.
